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Pitch & heel lift (XXXX vs. 1500C)


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#1 SolarWind

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:12 AM

Ok - after an interesting discussion regarding "on your toes"
http://www.modsquadh...p;hl=/heel lift

I'm now curious how do people find what's the best pitch & heel lift for them?

For instance JR likes 3mm lift - is that just a personal preference? Also in addition to that does he also use Superfeet?

the reason I ask is because my old 1500C with stock ShockDoctor insoles (5 mm heel lift built in) had very different feel from XXXX with Superfeets, and drastically different feel from XXXX with stock insoles (for the worse).

Now that I understood & felt the difference I actually came to like forward lean a lot more then neutral - I could try re-adjusting, but not sure if it makes sense.

Having that said (since I can't use superfeets because of the volume issues) should I just install 5mm heel lift to mimic 1500Cs?

Or would a 3mm heel lift be better?
Is there any logic or it's all just a preference thing?
Thanks!

Edited by SolarWind, 15 April 2008 - 02:13 AM.


#2 JR Boucicaut

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:21 PM

I use a 3mm heel lift because I want to change my profile while keeping the shape of the toe stock. I don't skate with Superfeet - I actually skate with the Easton Bio-Dri footbed that comes on the S15 so that I can raise my heel inside of the boot.

#3 oldtrainerguy28

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:39 PM

JR I think with the new Yellow Superfeet coming the fit and feel would be much better and fit with almost everyone.
Did we go through the discussion on these and fitting the heel and not fitting overall length?

#4 SolarWind

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:41 PM

I use a 3mm heel lift because I want to change my profile while keeping the shape of the toe stock. I don't skate with Superfeet - I actually skate with the Easton Bio-Dri footbed that comes on the S15 so that I can raise my heel inside of the boot.

Curious does the "Easton Bio-Dri footbed that comes on the S15" have any heel lift as well?

Edited by SolarWind, 15 April 2008 - 09:42 PM.


#5 Jason

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:50 PM

I too skated in Eastons before moving to Nike Bauer. I liked the pitch on my Z-Airs and when I moved to Vapor XX's I hated the pitch. In my experience making adjustments to the pitch and profile of the steel is the best way to get in your preferred skating position. I too like the forward lean, but I have attained that position with a forward profile and I no longer need heel lifts or thicker insoles. I tried heel lifts and thicker insoles and I was even on the verge of getting JR to send me some profiled steel until I found a guy in town that uses the maximum edge system. He recommended that I remove my heel lift and try a forward profile. It worked like a charm and I have been skating better ever since.
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#6 JR Boucicaut

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:10 PM


I use a 3mm heel lift because I want to change my profile while keeping the shape of the toe stock. I don't skate with Superfeet - I actually skate with the Easton Bio-Dri footbed that comes on the S15 so that I can raise my heel inside of the boot.

Curious does the "Easton Bio-Dri footbed that comes on the S15" have any heel lift as well?


Yes and it is removable.

#7 SolarWind

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:34 PM

Does installing heel lift affect structural integrity of the link between skate & holder?
Does it require longer riverts?

#8 JR Boucicaut

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:41 PM

Does installing heel lift affect structural integrity of the link between skate & holder?
Does it require longer riverts?


No
Yes

#9 SolarWind

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:51 PM

In my experience making adjustments to the pitch and profile of the steel is the best way to get in your preferred skating position.


JR - what do you think about it? Why did you choose to install lifts rather then profiling the steel?

#10 JR Boucicaut

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:29 PM

Knowing the stock pitch of LS2, to get it where I want it to be, I'd have to take down quite a bit of steel, and the fact that the ONE90 didn't have much steel to begin with is why I used the heel lift.

#11 TheBert

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 06:06 PM

I too skated in Eastons before moving to Nike Bauer. I liked the pitch on my Z-Airs and when I moved to Vapor XX's I hated the pitch. In my experience making adjustments to the pitch and profile of the steel is the best way to get in your preferred skating position. I too like the forward lean, but I have attained that position with a forward profile and I no longer need heel lifts or thicker insoles. I tried heel lifts and thicker insoles and I was even on the verge of getting JR to send me some profiled steel until I found a guy in town that uses the maximum edge system. He recommended that I remove my heel lift and try a forward profile. It worked like a charm and I have been skating better ever since.

Who's the guy in Vancouver with maximum edge?
"When walking around the skyways downtown here, I'll see groups of people, start seeing openings, if someone comes close to me I starting thinking about dropping a shoulder, etc."

#12 Jason

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:04 AM

The place is called Ultimate Edge. It is located in North Vancouver at 2411 Mt. Seymour Parkway. Only place in the city I let sharpen my skates and I've tried a bunch of shops.
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#13 P5man

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:45 AM

IMO putting a heel lift in is more permanent and harder for a bad sharpener to screw up. You also only have to pay for the heel lift once, while you would have to pay for a profiling whenever you get a new set of steel.
"He has a shot that you can hear, but you cannot see! Hence the nickname, Radio."

#14 JR Boucicaut

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:53 AM

That is true as well - I was doing that on a lot of skates rather than pitching due to the hacks in the area.

#15 lerxst

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 12:32 AM

I was on the superfeet.com site, and did not see the yellow... anybody have any info on this... my search on here has turned up nuthin!

#16 jimmy

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 09:59 AM

IMO putting a heel lift in is more permanent and harder for a bad sharpener to screw up. You also only have to pay for the heel lift once, while you would have to pay for a profiling whenever you get a new set of steel.

Even with heel lifts a bad sharpener can alter your pitch, thus leaving you with a false sense of security that you have lift, when in fact, it could have been neutralized or increased by the hack. Even with lifts, profiling once a season is probably a good idea, especially if you aren't using a consistent good sharpener.
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#17 SolarWind

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 01:06 PM


IMO putting a heel lift in is more permanent and harder for a bad sharpener to screw up. You also only have to pay for the heel lift once, while you would have to pay for a profiling whenever you get a new set of steel.

Even with heel lifts a bad sharpener can alter your pitch, thus leaving you with a false sense of security that you have lift, when in fact, it could have been neutralized or increased by the hack. Even with lifts, profiling once a season is probably a good idea, especially if you aren't using a consistent good sharpener.


that's what seemed to be the consensus of another thread I started on a similar topic
so I ended up just profiling new skates to +1 forward
it's also cheaper then heel lifts, and less intrusive

#18 mxpowder

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 01:12 PM

Jimmy,
What would the equivlent in mm heel lift be to your med. forward pitch on 263 blades?

#19 JR Boucicaut

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 02:06 PM

I was on the superfeet.com site, and did not see the yellow... anybody have any info on this... my search on here has turned up nuthin!


Site is probably not updated yet.

#20 P5man

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:23 PM


IMO putting a heel lift in is more permanent and harder for a bad sharpener to screw up. You also only have to pay for the heel lift once, while you would have to pay for a profiling whenever you get a new set of steel.

Even with heel lifts a bad sharpener can alter your pitch, thus leaving you with a false sense of security that you have lift, when in fact, it could have been neutralized or increased by the hack. Even with lifts, profiling once a season is probably a good idea, especially if you aren't using a consistent good sharpener.


i know it is still possible to change the pitch. Still, with a heel lift, a new set of steel would be all you need if it is messed up
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#21 SolarWind

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 05:22 PM

i know it is still possible to change the pitch. Still, with a heel lift, a new set of steel would be all you need if it is messed up


well - depending on the profile of course you don't loose much steel, so getting new profile ($35) might actually be cheaper then a new set of steel ($30 + shipping)

#22 t1tan

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 05:57 PM

that's what seemed to be the consensus of another thread I started on a similar topic
so I ended up just profiling new skates to +1 forward
it's also cheaper then heel lifts, and less intrusive



My shops around me charge 35-45 for a profiling job, my lifts cost 18 to install(1.50 per new rivet, 12 total per pair), all it requires is remove the stock rivets, shape the lift in the thickness of your choosing, take to the shop and have them installed.

I just ordered 4 feet of high density polyethylene in 1/8"(3.175mm) to make lifts for my One95s I have on order, did the same thing for my current One90s except .08"(2.032mm) was too small for my preference. Why 4 feet? because thats the minimum allowed per order @ mcmaster.com at that thickness but at 1.17/foot, I didn't care, doesn't hurt to have extra to make lifts and sell them.

4.68(really only using like .20 of HDPE) + 18 = cheaper than profiling than any shop I've been to

#23 SolarWind

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 07:04 PM

My shops around me charge 35-45 for a profiling job, my lifts cost 18 to install(1.50 per new rivet, 12 total per pair),


fair enough - obviously prices are very different everywhere
I had profiling done for $25, and was quoted $60 for heel lifts so it was kind of no brainer in my case

#24 t1tan

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 08:17 PM

Totally understandable then