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JR Boucicaut

Bauer TotalONE NXG Initial Thoughts

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Yeah, I can't quote or do anything but type. Anytime I hit the quote button or try to upload a picture, nothing happens, my forum screen freezes, and I have to refresh just to continue typing out the post. Can't even copy/paste anything in the post I'm writing to move it around.

Bender: You may want to look up the word petulant there before using it in a sentence. This is just a very calm discussion among people interested in participating in it in the first place and I think I've expressed nothing but appreciation for constructive input regardless of whether the opinions expressed happen to match mine. I've repeatedly acknowledged the quality of the new skates, repeatedly qualified my comments as possibly applying to nobody else who hasn't only skated in Langes for 15+ years, and repeatedly said that I'm not presuming to be "reviewing" the NXGs. If I were closed-minded about it, I wouldn't have bothered with the NXGs in the first place, knowing I'll be taking a substantial loss reselling them. This isn't even an argument as far as I'm concerned, just a discussion.

Zebra: I understand what you're saying. Truthfully, if I'd noticed the weight difference on my legs (or extra spring), I'd be slower to make the decision. What you're saying about stride applies perfectly: I have a very long, low hip, crouched, full-leg extension stride that just doesn't match the NXGs, even with no inserts. In the Langes, my stride is still a rusty version of my stride. I guess I'm more interested in getting back to maybe 75% or 80% ASAP to play in an old-timers' league more than worrying about >80% in the longer term. That said, let me ask you something as non "petulantly" as I possibly can: Are you saying the other Bauers are equally stiff laterally and more flexible at the same time? Because the NXGs actually felt right to me for lateral support. I'd be open to something with the same lateral support but not less. Any specific suggestions?

I know you've made up your mind for the most part, but I just wanted to put my perspective in on the NXG's. I have had them for about a year and a half now. I have a very similar sakting style to what you describe yours to be. And the NXG's are by far the best skate I have ever worn. They are super comfortable, and becasue of how I skate, they provide a great amount of lateral support. The forward flex is there when you are using them for actual playing and not just skating around, but I agree there is not a lot of flex when just going for a leisurely skate. I would not even consider going back to the old skates I used to use. I actually did for an outdoor tournament and the difference was astounding. I absolutely love the skates and they were the best money I have ever spent on hockey gear. Again, not trying to change your mind, just wanted to add another opinion.

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Damn. I did have my mind pretty much made up until you threw in that monkey wrench...guess I have to get them re-profiled now and give 'em another shot. Assuming the 50/30mm profile that seems right on the Langes feels like standing up straight in x-country skis to me in NXGs, any educated opinions about the next radius/profile on them?

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Yeah, I can't quote or do anything but type. Anytime I hit the quote button or try to upload a picture, nothing happens, my forum screen freezes, and I have to refresh just to continue typing out the post. Can't even copy/paste anything in the post I'm writing to move it around.

Very strange. Try a new browser as althoma said.

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YesLanges,

I have a similar old school stride.... I have always had my skates profiled for a more forward pitch. I'm comfortable on my CCM CL's with E-Pro's and Step steel. I was equally at home on my Graf's with Cobra's and step steel.... I always fel like I was off ballance or falling backwards in Tuuks and Bauer skates until I profiled them. I ask you, is the boot comfortable and well fitting? If so, work with them a bit, and yes... skate hard on them. You may end up skipping the top eyelet. You may end up pulling them snug to where you ankle hinges, give the laces a coulple overhand loops hold then snug then lace them looser to the top - there's plety of lateral stiffness in those boots that if your stide is as good as you say then you should be able to just about skate in them unlaced. In fact, the uber stiff boots these days IMHO have led to skaters having LESS FINE EDGE CONTROL.

When I went from my Graf 707's (Stitched boot with a low cut, forward lean, and cobra holders with forward pitch) to Baurer Vapor XXXX's I loved the extra lateral stiffness but was at odds with the higher cut boot and lack of fore\aft flexibility. I tried rebaking, reprofiling, skipping eyelets. goofy lacing patterns, and more. Ultimately I wound up with fresh runners, a reprofile and I used waxed laces that I laced over the top until I reached the ankle hinge. I then laced normally and just snug up to the top. Then I just skated them really hard for a couple weeks and I got used to them.Now my CCM 1152's frustrated me from the day I first skated them until the day that my Graf's replaced them. Uber stiff boot with marginal forward flex and ZERO rearward flex due to the high and stiff tendonguard. I considered all manner of modification including just cutting it off. I would actually would bruise my calf if I skated more than one hard game in a row.

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Thanks, Steve. I was a decent skater, but I don't necessarily equate every long stride with being a great skater...I just meant as a skating style. Problem is I always taped up high around tendon guard and shin guards, like Orr and Fedorov (for two examples that could be Googled)...In Langes, that works because of the hinge...but if I tape around the NXG tendon guard like that, it limits mobility, even with the flexing TG technology and even if I left an eyelet loose. not the skates' fault...they're not meant to be taped like that...it might even snap the tendon guard off after a while. I may give them another shot but I'm kind of anticipating that the only way for me to skate well again is to duplicate the only way I ever skated...and the more I get away from that, the less I'll be able to count on (fine) muscle memory. It's not something I'm thrilled about, but I think that may just be the deal for me.

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There are guys who tape Supreme tendon guards (including Feds at the end of his career)...most of those guys are in the KHL. Check out photo.khl.ru and you'll get an idea of how many still do tape their tendon guards over there. Oleg Kvasha was in CURV Supremes (not sure if they had the NXG style tendon guard or one.9 style, I would wager it was more like the one.9) and he taped the TG and skipped the top eyelet. Korolyuk's taping with Vapors, lately mostly APX (after a brief few stints in the APX2), and he laces with tension only in the last few eyelets and lets there be floating room between the top of the tendon guard and his shins, looks like the tape is a bit tighter around the base of the guard.

Edit: just looked at Kvasha again and it looks like he specifically tapes the top of the tendon guard and not near the base (Coffey also often did it that way), while also skipping the top eyelet.

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YesLanges

I didn't see you mention taping your tendon guard before (or I missed it). This is the missing piece (in my mind anyway) with the issues you are having. To be truthful, I would recommend that you take this as an opportunity to get away from taping the tendon guard. You have plenty of lateral support in the modern boots and taping them will limit a great deal of your edge control - especially in the modern boots. These modern boots are a magnitude stiffer than back in the day (both stitched and molded). In the late 80's and through the 90's i can remember ordering my customs with as much stiffness as they could build into the stitched boots. IIRC, the Bauer 8090 retail stock boot was as stiff as the custom boots that I was ordering previously and they've only gotten stiffer since then. I can imagine the difference you are dealing with as I know what I have gone through over the years and I was riding the wave of change and not stepping out of a time machine (so to speak).

I will tell you that it will feel more than a bit weird for a while, but in the long run you will likely be much better off. I doubt that you will find any modern skate that will allow you to tape the way you want and have any semblace of the feel you are looking for. In fact, you would have the same issue if you would try taping the tendon guard on ANY of the stitched boots from back in the day of your Langes let alone any of the stitched boots produced since then! The boots will die a premature death due to boot breakdown in the ankle hinge area and the tendon guard specifically related to your taping and the amount of forward flex you want to force. If you look at the old stitched boots where guys taped like that, they usually seemed to have a tendon guard that is really soft and broken down. The NXG's are not designed with a lot of forward lean and the pitch is decidely not forward. As I said, profile the blades for more aggressive lean, add shims\wedges between the mount and heel to change the effective pitch, or ditch the TUUKs for something that have more forward pitch built into the holder.

In short, I urge you to embrace this change and find an acceptable solution because you will not be able to remain in the past on this one. Many of us dinosaurs have succesfully transitioned to modern skates once we accepted that what we once took for granted had died nearly two decades ago.

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There are some young guys who still tape Bauer's newest and stiffest: Ivan Barbashev, Anthony Rouiller at WJC this year. They'll likely be converted away from that after they go pro like many others have: Boedker, Kopitar, Burmistrov... Some go and do it after they go pro, like Jamie Benn does, and Max Paicioretty did it for a while. In short, it's not completely unheard of in the new boots.

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flip12

I don't doubt it for a minute. We are not in the show and anyone making that kind of cash can do whatever they like. They have succeeded doing it their way (at least partly despite or maybe because of their choice(s).. depends on your personal view). There's a lot that depends on feel and "superstition". ie - they taped their ankles since they were 5 so they "have to" keep doing it.... Or whatever other reason....

For us mere mortals, well we can afford to try different stuff and get outside of our comfort zone a lot more than those guys. We'll feel weird for a while, but those guys have real money riding on their performance. I will tell you that if I'm teaching someone to skate, and more specifically if I'm teaching power skating, I have a bit of an issue with taping anything. Rather that they have skates that fit and provide acceptable support as is. That's a discussion for a whole new thread.

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zebra_steve, I agree with what you're saying, and I actually think a lot of players, regardless of their skate tying, never develop good power skating form. There are plenty of examples of tendon tapers and normal boot wearers on both sides of the good and bad form divide...I do want to tap out on that in this topic though because I don't want to derail it any more than I already have. It's just a pet topic of mine.

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