Proper lace tightening for ice skates (top 2 eyelets)

[louierev07 31]

@cosmic:

I think im in the same boat as you. That part of my foot that falls between the middle eyelets bulges out pretty bad. The rest of my foot is pretty normal. No idea what kind of skate i should be looking at, and I think I really just need to eventually take a trip to new jersey where they have pretty much every skate to try on. I called those places mentioned that were around here, but didnt have the skates i was looking for.

I was able to try supremes at a local place, but the heel felt really weird. Not sure if that would get fixed when I bake them, but it felt like the heel was shaped like a V, when I need a U - if that makes any sense. Didnt do a pencil test, but it did feel a little roomier than the vapor. Also tried on these in a wide size, which felt really weird, and felt extra wobbly.

Tried the nexus on again (600), and again that toe cap just feels way too big. I think depth wise theyre good, but I dont think having that much space is how its supposed to feel.

For now im gonna try and stick it out with the vapors until I'm able to make the trip/find out what I really need.

I havent gotten lace bite yet, but like I mentioned, my whole foot starts to hurt (feels like an entire foot cramp), and my toes sometimes get numb. Originally I thought the wax would help, but all its doing is mkaing it impossible to get comfortable since with them I might have one or two spots tighter than others, and they dont really even out at all like they would with regular laces.

[KoT 2]

If u don't have lacebite on midfoot and any pain, u don't need new skate for fix, many NHL, AHL players have out in middle and they in Vapos,RBK's and don't have any mentation about that.

[Cosmic 178]

And the other one would be Nexus. But your right thats not deep enough! Lace bite?

I guess I am not really sure as to exactly what lacebite is. I feel like the balls of my feet are just getting jammed in so hard to the soles of the boot, that it is then causing that are to feel extreme pain, while the are around (toes, midfoot) goes numb. So, if this is lacebite, then that is what I got. Someone else suggested Nexus too. I will see how it works out with the Axiom T9, and hope they hold me over until I can get back to the mainland and can try on Mako/RBZ/Nexus and whatever else. VH could be the answer too- I am in touch with Scott, but my issue with them is that I want to be on the mainland in case I need last minute adjustment once I get the boot on my foot.

@cosmic:

I think im in the same boat as you. That part of my foot that falls between the middle eyelets bulges out pretty bad. The rest of my foot is pretty normal. No idea what kind of skate i should be looking at, and I think I really just need to eventually take a trip to new jersey where they have pretty much every skate to try on. I called those places mentioned that were around here, but didnt have the skates i was looking for.

I was able to try supremes at a local place, but the heel felt really weird. Not sure if that would get fixed when I bake them, but it felt like the heel was shaped like a V, when I need a U - if that makes any sense. Didnt do a pencil test, but it did feel a little roomier than the vapor. Also tried on these in a wide size, which felt really weird, and felt extra wobbly.

Tried the nexus on again (600), and again that toe cap just feels way too big. I think depth wise theyre good, but I dont think having that much space is how its supposed to feel.

For now im gonna try and stick it out with the vapors until I'm able to make the trip/find out what I really need.

I havent gotten lace bite yet, but like I mentioned, my whole foot starts to hurt (feels like an entire foot cramp), and my toes sometimes get numb. Originally I thought the wax would help, but all its doing is mkaing it impossible to get comfortable since with them I might have one or two spots tighter than others, and they dont really even out at all like they would with regular laces.

I think the skates you want to look at are same ones as me: CCM RBZ, Easton Mako, Nexus. That being said, if you are set to spend $800, then VH ought to actually be the best bet, as Scott has you measure and take pics of everything, so that the boot is custom fit to your foot, with what I hear is great padding and lining inside. His boots seem much more durable than Mako/RBZ, and much better able to come negative space free right out of the box, compared to Nexus.

[louierev07 31]

If u don't have lacebite on midfoot and any pain, u don't need new skate for fix, many NHL, AHL players have out in middle and they in Vapos,RBK's and don't have any mentation about that.

I havent experienced any lacebite yet, but the only way I can describe my pain is like its a whole foot cramp. Especially the muscle on the inside part of my foot in back of my arch. Its like its so tight in a spot that my muscles cant expand, and they start to cramp.

Ive battled this by loosening them a little, but i think with this pair its so hard to get at a consistent tightness. I played last night, and my left skate was OK, but maybe a little on the loose side. My right skate I had to adjust 3 times during the game, and it was always either too tight in a spot, or too loose.

The numbness may or not be because of the skates.

I think the skates you want to look at are same ones as me: CCM RBZ, Easton Mako, Nexus. That being said, if you are set to spend $800, then VH ought to actually be the best bet, as Scott has you measure and take pics of everything, so that the boot is custom fit to your foot, with what I hear is great padding and lining inside. His boots seem much more durable than Mako/RBZ, and much better able to come negative space free right out of the box, compared to Nexus.

Didnt know about VH until now. Cant justify paying that much at the moment, but once money isnt so tight, I think that is exactly what I would be looking for. Im surprised I havent heard of this sooner, since this is exactly what i was looking around for last week. I think the most I can spend on skates in the near future is probably $300.

Whats the cheapest I can get a boot for from VH? I guess I can use my old holder and stuff, and thatll help save some money. Still I dont think there anyway im getting it even under $500 :(

[Cosmic 178]

Whats the cheapest I can get a boot for from VH? I guess I can use my old holder and stuff, and thatll help save some money. Still I dont think there anyway im getting it even under $500 :(

Scott Van Horne

For VH Custom Speed Skate and Hockey Skate related questions please contact Scott.

email: scott@vhfootwear.com

[flip12 699]

I havent experienced any lacebite yet, but the only way I can describe my pain is like its a whole foot cramp. Especially the muscle on the inside part of my foot in back of my arch. Its like its so tight in a spot that my muscles cant expand, and they start to cramp.

Ive battled this by loosening them a little, but i think with this pair its so hard to get at a consistent tightness. I played last night, and my left skate was OK, but maybe a little on the loose side. My right skate I had to adjust 3 times during the game, and it was always either too tight in a spot, or too loose.

The numbness may or not be because of the skates.

Didnt know about VH until now. Cant justify paying that much at the moment, but once money isnt so tight, I think that is exactly what I would be looking for. Im surprised I havent heard of this sooner, since this is exactly what i was looking around for last week. I think the most I can spend on skates in the near future is probably $300.

Whats the cheapest I can get a boot for from VH? I guess I can use my old holder and stuff, and thatll help save some money. Still I dont think there anyway im getting it even under $500 :(

They also have a discount section where they post for sale any pairs that have been exchanged for another size, or slightly blemished in the construction. Those can be quite a deal, if you know what size you would need, you can keep checking up on there.

[n3gkiwi 1]

I havent experienced any lacebite yet, but the only way I can describe my pain is like its a whole foot cramp. Especially the muscle on the inside part of my foot in back of my arch. Its like its so tight in a spot that my muscles cant expand, and they start to cramp.

Ive battled this by loosening them a little, but i think with this pair its so hard to get at a consistent tightness. I played last night, and my left skate was OK, but maybe a little on the loose side. My right skate I had to adjust 3 times during the game, and it was always either too tight in a spot, or too loose.

The numbness may or not be because of the skates.

Just wanted to chime in here, I had cramping/numb problems with new skates and realized I was tying them way too tight at the bottom. Try tying them loose (basically don't pull hard, just gently when tying them) until about the 4th/3rd last eyelet, then tie them up tight. You can tie the knot tight or loose at the top depending on how much knee bend you want. If the heel lock is okay you shouldn't have any problems with slipping. If this works. waxed laces may help keep the top tight and the bottom of yours skates less tight with this method. Hope that helps.

[Cosmic 178]

Just wanted to chime in here, I had cramping/numb problems with new skates and realized I was tying them way too tight at the bottom. Try tying them loose (basically don't pull hard, just gently when tying them) until about the 4th/3rd last eyelet, then tie them up tight. You can tie the knot tight or loose at the top depending on how much knee bend you want. If the heel lock is okay you shouldn't have any problems with slipping. If this works. waxed laces may help keep the top tight and the bottom of yours skates less tight with this method. Hope that helps.

Yea the issue is (now, not before), is that when I put on a boot, I can feel it instantly whether it will hurt. I do not even need to tie it. I think I have seasmoiditis or metatarsaglia. So, when I put on my Supreme, I feel it instantly, not sure what it is about the boot, maybe just because it is too hard. Same when I put on the Axiom T9. Then when I put on, say my Asics Gel Kayana, it feels good, and I like walking, jumping, running or doing whatever in them. Axiom T10, same thing, feels like I am putting my foot into a pillow. Walking barefoot I am pain free too, but if I slant my foot and hit a certain angle then I feel it.

So, I think overtightening the laces and playing for 2.5 hours with overtightened laces may have caused it (plus maybe jumping around at physio and doing things I had not done in forever), but now that this condition is upon me, tightening is not even the issue. I am sure overtightening can make it worse, and I have loosened up on even how I tie my T10s so I do not make the situation worse.

But yea, I loved skating with supertight Supreme One.9 LEs, for what it is worth. I just felt like my boot and foot were one, and have never felt so confident skating. Just things like skating around the back of the net with the puck, either for a wrap around or as a D man- I never did stuff like that 17 years ago because I did not feel confident enough to skate on these precise lines, but with overtightened Supremes, no problem!! lol

[mcne0101 16]

I personally think a lot of people tie their skates too tight. Its all preference i guess, i have Bauer One95's and I don't tie them too tight and i dont lace the top two eyelets. The graf skates I had previously I tied all the way to the top; i guess it just depends on the feel of the skate.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I personally think a lot of people tie their skates too tight. Its all preference i guess, i have Bauer One95's and I don't tie them too tight and i dont lace the top two eyelets. The graf skates I had previously I tied all the way to the top; i guess it just depends on the feel of the skate.

However with to much sideways flexion you are more likely to not skate as well as you would with doing them up and leaving them a little loose. Yes it is personal preference but I can show video after video about the improvement in performance when players do use the whole skate (if it fits them properly and is the right skate for them).

[flip12 699]

However with to much sideways flexion you are more likely to not skate as well as you would with doing them up and leaving them a little loose. Yes it is personal preference but I can show video after video about the improvement in performance when players do use the whole skate (if it fits them properly and is the right skate for them).

I would love to see that! Could you post links?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I would love to see that! Could you post links?

No sorry I cant. It would have to be in person as they are players I have worked with. That being said I will ask if there is some I could come back with and post. It could be educational forall those that do not believe it is a factor.

[louierev07 31]

No sorry I cant. It would have to be in person as they are players I have worked with. That being said I will ask if there is some I could come back with and post. It could be educational forall those that do not believe it is a factor.

This would be awesome if you could. Every time I skate I say to myself that im going to ask someone if I can see how tight they tie their skates and stuff, but either I forget, or I dont want to be a creep.

I think I'm getting better at finding the "sweet spot". I switched back to cotton laces and a normal lace pattern. I do the first 4 just so they are snug, but not tight at all. At the fifth eyelet, I crank pretty hard, and at the corner I try to get as tight as possible. The cotton sometimes makes it hard to get tight, but having both waxed laces and the over under lacing pattern made it so the laces did not stretch out at all and it was almost always uncomfortable. I think I need to just use either cotton with the over under, or waxed with a normal pattern.

Ive also found that if a cotton lace gets twisted, and doesnt lie flat, it makes it so I cant tie it tight - or if I do tie it tight I get pain in that area. Gonna try and find some real thick laces to distribute the tension a little better. Im using vapor 5.0 skates - so I know my tongue might not be as thick and forgiving as some higher priced skates.

And just a word on the fit, I think vapors might actually be perfect for me (still not sure by any means). When I have these laced up right they feel great. Compared to:

Nexus 600/800 - heel felt good, depth was good, but the rest of my foot was swimming in the boot

vapor 7.0 EE - felt awful. Just judging by this boot I think I can assume I dont have a wide foot by any means

supreme one.6 D - heel felt really weird, but this could be because its not baked. I also prefer the snugness of the vapor in the end of the skate compared to this, which was between a vapor and a nexus.

supreme one.7 Wide - way too wide, just like the vapor EE

I eventually want to go to the hockeymonkey store in NJ and have them tell me what skate is best for me. I was actually right near there this past weekend for a football game and forgot about stopping there :(

I checked out scotts prices, and theres no way I could swing it at the moment. I think eventually thats probably what I'll end up getting if I end up buying a top end skate. Any chance if I paid Scott, and sent him my pictures/dimensions, he can give me a recommendation as to which skates I should go for, or at least tell me what I should be looking for in a skate (high arch, wide heel, high volume, etc.) I'm hoping someone at hockey monkey can help, but in the chance that theres not, his opinion would be my best choice for getting something that fits for now. Probably not the best idea, but I worry about wearing the complete wrong skate for me, and then in a year or two discovering how much my skating has suffered because im wearing the wrong skate.

[z1ggy 81]

^ not sure if you said it, but have you baked your vapors? If so.. Maybe bake again? I still get some pain with my vapor's even after 6 years in them. I'm going to make them tonight and when I skate sunday I will see if it helps. I don't think switching skate types will help, but it cant hurt to try dif ones on like you have.

[sticktime 12]

Would loop locking at the top two eyelets allow for a bit more forward flex, while keeping the tightness up top as if one just tied all the way up to the top?

Going to try it out tonite at public skate because there isn't any stick and puck session until monday and I'm anxious to check this out.

[sticktime 12]

Tried loop locking. Does give a nice tight fit and support up top, but, at the expense of forward flex. At least my skates. Have 28k/s and just going to stay with skippind the second to last eyelet. It provides the same feeling of support and still provides for flex, a bit more than loop locking.

Also, I have skinny ankles and narrow heels, low arch on left foot and more flat and slight pronation on right foor, and I've found that Stable 26 socks with 4 outside on and 2 inside on left and 6 outside and 4 inside on right gives me unmatched stability from my heel up through the ankle. The pumps support the ankle but I didn't want to rely on the pump in case it breaks down either sooner or later and the socks are a "stable" solution.

It's really noticeable how much more solid square you feel in your skates with stable socks. I was skeptical prior to use, but after reading testimonials from top level players how it enhanced their skating, and also how oldtrainerguy28 talked about Darcy Tucker needing them in custom grafs!, well that swayed me to try them.

It's been a couple of skates now and I went back to trying giving it a go once without them and wow is the feeling different. So much room in the back of the skate. Def. need the.

At the risk of taking over this thread, it would be cool to hear from others who have benefitted from the 26 socks.

ALso wanted to add, before anyone chimes in with "who not just get skates with a more narrow hee" that I tried all brands on (except Graf since nobody carries them here) and the only two that were close were Vapors but they grabbed the upper achilles area well but the heel itself was too wide, and Supreme's, which I have the 190's, are too wide in the forefoot.

Weird feet. Custom would prob be the only true best fit. Maybe next skates.

[flip12 699]

Sounds a lot like you have 703 feet.

[syinx 139]

So I'm in my VH Skates which feel great, but I don't get enough forward flex when I lace all the way up, and also don't get enough side-to-side support when I drop an eyelet. Any suggestions?

[sticktime 12]

Try skipping the second to last eyelet.

[flip12 699]

Does your VH tongue have that thermoplastic insert running up it? I found that to be really stiff on my MLX, but when I took care to fold it down when I baked the skates, it greatly improved my forward flex. When we have ice back in the Fall, I'm going to try the MLX with a Graf tongue to see if that improves my foot's range of motion and flexion in the boot. I'm thinking maybe the tongue's stiffness is too much for some people. I also wish the boot were just cut a tad bit lower, but then I doubt any Bauer skaters would like them at all.

[Hockeydog 8]

I personally think a lot of people tie their skates too tight.

I agree with this, I was one. My goal is to only tie the skates up as tight as I have to in order to keep the heels locked in and the skates from pronating. If the skates fit well - don't have to bee 100% perfect - you shouldn't need to tighten them up excessively.

I have gone from waxed laces cranked pretty hard to the laces that came with the skates snugged up everywhere excpet a couple of eyelets where I pull them firm but not cranked. Go to an open skate and start loose and keep stopping to tighen them up in small increments until you do find that sweet spot. If it takes a lot of cranking with waxed laces maybe the skates are not right for you. This is the golden age of skate fit, there are so many options, something should be a good fit without going to extremes with lacing.

[ccarrigan 2]

You can also try the 55flex product. I have to use it with my VH skates and it does make an improvement.

[flip12 699]

I agree with this, I was one. My goal is to only tie the skates up as tight as I have to in order to keep the heels locked in and the skates from pronating. If the skates fit well - don't have to bee 100% perfect - you shouldn't need to tighten them up excessively.

Is the "skate pronation" a bad thing? A lot of the strongest skaters seem to leverage this as purely increased push angle, and not so much as pronation as inward ankle rotation. The most annoying thing about my MLX is how they're so high and close to the foot that I can't get the push angle I'm used to for my forward stride. It's something I think I may be able to achieve by properly rolling the edge back out to match the angle of the inner side wall at the top eyelet in my Graf 703's, but out of the box, this assumption of locking the skater's foot in a right-angle alignment can be incredibly constricting.

[smu 29]

Scott Van Horne

For VH Custom Speed Skate and Hockey Skate related questions please contact Scott.

email: scott@vhfootwear.com

All I can say is the VH skate may well be worth it seeing how much I have paid out in skates and fixes over the past few years even though I am buying good but cheaper junior skates.

If my present fix now does not work my Christmas present to myself will be a pair of VH skates.

Alan

[flip12 699]

So I'm in my VH Skates which feel great, but I don't get enough forward flex when I lace all the way up, and also don't get enough side-to-side support when I drop an eyelet. Any suggestions?

I keep thinking about this. I don't have VH, just MLX, but from what I can tell, the eyelet positioning is very similar. I love the way they're relaxing to skate in when they're right on--no pain and no foot soreness, like your feet have just been to a massage while sprinting around on ice for an hour and a half. Yet it feels like everything dealing with the top of the foot is kind of off. For me, it could just be that the forefoot is too deep, but the ankle fit is constricting both to the side and forward. But if you go back and look at Cruikshank's prototype skate, it looks lower cut, maybe by 1-whole eyelet (though it's difficult to be sure), and much more aggressively pitched above the talus joint. You can get a similar view to compare if you look at Byfuglien's unfinished skate at 3:03 in this video (can't grab a link for the exact frame like on youtube). Probably because this is intended for skaters used to hockey boots and the other was for one used to speed skating boots, it's more upright and higher cut. This is exactly what I try to fiddle with to correct in my MLX.