Sharpend Skates and now I suck!

[Campoli 9]

Hey there, new member but long time lurker and follower of this great site!

So last year I decided to pickup a new pair of skates after a long hiatus. I grabbed a lower tier pair of Vapors for $120 from Canadian Tire and had them sharpened. I adjusted to them pretty well and skated with them recreationally all last winter, adding in stick and puck and into this season. I could skate on edge pretty well, sharp turns, transitions, forward beginner type crossovers and backwards as well. Keep in mind I did not sharpen the skates again after the initial purchase.

Well a few days ago I decide to give them a sharpen as I thought I'd benefit from a sharper edge. So bring them to Sportchek and ask for a sharpen. They did not ask me what type of hollow I'd like, nor did I even know about this until recently.

So I take to the ice yesterday and boy what a rude awakening. I immediately found that the skates dug Ito the ice much more, rather than the gliding I was used to. I almost broke my neck attempting a hockey stop in the left direction and was like wtf is going on!? It was very frustrating as I thought, wow do I really suck this much in reality? Lol I kept at it and managed to get into crossovers and hockey stops to my left side (albeit not well). I went again to an outdoor skate last night after trying the penny trick to slightly dull my blades and also some scrapes on the ice. A bit better but still not comfortable. Although now I think I may have messed up the blades as the sharpness feels off edge to edge.

I feel like a complete beginner again and it sucks more than the Leafs defense (I am a Leafs fan). What do you suggest in my case? I'm a rec skater who's interested in pickup and casual play, nothing crazy competitive. Should I have them reshape we as a shallower hollow like 5/8 to 1"?

You help is much appreciated!

[trinituner 10]

Finding the right grind for your skating style is not a 5 minute task and you will have a few more trial and errors along the way believe me, I am someone that has years of experience and recently changed over to tblades for one reason and another and it has taken me about a month to get the correct profile and hollow. My skating was terrible with the short profile and boarder line unturntable with the longer. I was the fastest cat on the ice with the 13 hollow they provide, bamby with the 21 and couldn't move with the 11.. Bottom line to all this talk is even if you are a good skater you will find things that work and that do not..

It's hard to tell you what to get as it is a personal feal thing that only you know, if you try something and it does not work go back and try again. You state that the last grind felt to deep make sure you understand what you had done last and go shallower next time. Try not to be someone that gets a grind and skates on them for months between sharpens, this will do your skating no good.. Far better to have a shallow sharpen often than a deep hollow and let it wear down over time..

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Start at 5/8, it's probably the next most common hollow.

Drives me nuts when my teammates are out there saying their freshly sharpened skates are too sharp and they're rubbing them on the door sill trying to dull them. Get the right hollow and you won't have to do that!

Ideally you'd be better off like the above poster said to find a hollow you like and have your skates sharpened frequently do they're always the same.

[MThockeydad 469]

The other way to go would be to go shallower and shallower until you feel "washed out" then go back deeper (smaller radius) one step.

You need to know what hollow Sportchek gave you so that you know what to ask for.

Trituner, are those numbers radius in mm?

13mm ~= 1/2"

11mm ~= 7/16"

21mm ~= 13/16"

Likewise, I feel washed out on 9/16" (14mm) but love 1/2" (13mm) and 100/50 FBV

OP, your mileage may vary. I'm 6'-6", 190#, and an intermediate skater. Stronger, more advanced skaters may often feel great on a flatter hollow.

[Campoli 9]

Well I just went for a sharpen at a really good local shop. He didn't comment on the job Sportchek did but re-grinded to a 5/8" hollow. I then went for a skate closer by and immediately noticed the difference. It was a lot less grippy! Which felt good but it didn't at the same time as I found my feet sliding much more as the edges were less sharp. I still couldn't hockey stop in the left direction so I'm convinced it's me and not the skate. A week ago I was ripping stops like crazy both sides. It;s like my body has forgotten how to stop it's really strange.

Anyone else experience this?

Btw I'm 5'10 and 165lbs.

[MThockeydad 469]

If you're a newish skater, maybe you just temporarily lost your stopping technique.

Good hockey position, knees bent, using the blade under the balls of your feet, and pushing down with your butt ("squatting") as you throw 'em sideways?

Are you chattering or turning instead of stopping?

[trinituner 10]

The other way to go would be to go shallower and shallower until you feel "washed out" then go back deeper (smaller radius) one step.

You need to know what hollow Sportchek gave you so that you know what to ask for.

Trituner, are those numbers radius in mm?

13mm ~= 1/2"

11mm ~= 7/16"

21mm ~= 13/16"

Likewise, I feel washed out on 9/16" (14mm) but love 1/2" (13mm) and 100/50 FBV

OP, your mileage may vary. I'm 6'-6", 190#, and an intermediate skater. Stronger, more advanced skaters may often feel great on a flatter hollow.

Tblade Hollows see link http://site.hockeymonkey.com/images/products/tech/tblade/tblade-faq-sizing.jpg

The Ice type (soft) (hard) will also play a key role in how your skates feal...

[Campoli 9]

If you're a newish skater, maybe you just temporarily lost your stopping technique.

Good hockey position, knees bent, using the blade under the balls of your feet, and pushing down with your butt ("squatting") as you throw 'em sideways?

Are you chattering or turning instead of stopping?

Chattering a bit on my right stop and turning on my left direction stop,. If I try a hockey stop hard on my left, I'm flying.

[Campoli 9]

[mc88 160]

Chattering is usually a sign of one or two things:

1. Edges too sharp - if you started with a 1/2 inch hollow, go up to a 9/16, then 5/8, and so on until it feels consistent/comfortable -- I have to have 5/8ths. Anything else is too sharp.. but note, with the flatter hollow that you're going to be sacrificing taking super tight turns by having less bite/grip as result, so keep that in mind!

2. Knees aren't bent enough - I found that a common mistake among beginners is when they go to stop, they tend to straighten out the skate that is stopping on the outside edge, thereby creating an edge that cuts too deep too soon. Instead, keep both knees bent, lead with the inside edge stopping, then follow up by setting the outside edge relatively STRAIGHT up (not angled at all) and flat, then lean back so both runners will naturally angle up. As you get better, you'll be able to add some angle to the outside edge.

[MThockeydad 469]

to add to what mc88 said along with a more vertical outside skate blade, if you're contacting the ice with the center of the blade (under the arch of your foot), you'll chatter more than if you're stopping using a more forward part of your blade under the ball of your foot.

Definitely knees bent more, especially if you feel like you're getting "thrown over the handlebars"

Tblade Hollows see link http://site.hockeymonkey.com/images/products/tech/tblade/tblade-faq-sizing.jpg

9 - 5/16"

11 - 3/8"

13 - 7/16"

15 - 1/2"

18 - 5/8"

21 - 3/4"

I was close!

[chk hrd 164]

if you're turning instead of stopping you are putting weight on your heals instead of the toes. Bending your knees more will help as log as you are bending them with your shoulders/knees in line and a little forward of your toes. I'm betting you are sitting back if you have knee bend or are to vertical with no knee bend. You may also be relying to much on your strong leg that is under which can cause you to stand up more. Best thing to do is gat a little speed and commit with your weight on your toes. After a bunch of wipe outs you'll start figuring out what is wrong.

[MThockeydad 469]

Try one-footed stops. Glide forward with both knees bent and your strong leg under you, put your outside leg forward and shave some ice with just the toe. Start applying more and more pressure each time until you can stop completely on that one foot. Then add in the inside foot.

Get you to the same place with less wipe outs!

[Campoli 9]

Thanks for the great information everyone. I am trying to hit the ice daily (indoors and out) to find my feet again. I think I primarily need to work on my leg strength and stamina.

Can anyone recommend any off ice drills, some of which would help assist in the hockey stop movement?

[trinituner 10]

The numer one skating improver (in my book) is playing hockey, I have seen massive improvements with people in a short time..

Scenario can go like this, matey boy is a session skater but never played hockey, he is a bit of a rink rat and can do all the moves.. He decides to take up hockey and in the first practice session gets his ass handed to him.. He realises that just because you can skate well in a public session it means diddly poo when you play hockey.. Fact is if you play hockey your skating will improve a massive amount as you have more things to think about and tend to "just do it" when the situation arises..

I know you stated that you included a stick and puck but now you have freshly sharpened skates you dont say if you are having issues when playing pick up puck or just session skating??...

I suggest get the boys together and get a game going and I would think you will bed into your skates way quicker and in turn will increase in confidence as well..

Just my 2ps worth

[mc88 160]

Thanks for the great information everyone. I am trying to hit the ice daily (indoors and out) to find my feet again. I think I primarily need to work on my leg strength and stamina.

Can anyone recommend any off ice drills, some of which would help assist in the hockey stop movement?

I really need to start creating videos... most of them on Youtube are watered down and they don't explain a lot.

Steps to achieve a hockey stop:

One foot snow plow (inside edge) -- move one leg in front at a northeast/northwest stance, move the toe in or ankle out, with 10% of the weight placed toward the ball of the foot. Meanwhile the other leg, FOR NOW, carries most of the weight and stays pointing straight forward (I refer to it as a 90/10 distribution, where 90% is on the supporting leg, and 10% on the stopping) -- The idea is to allow the stopping leg to find the inside edge FIRST before putting a lot of weight on it -- As you get better, you'll be able to transfer the weight from the supporting leg to the stopping leg:

(around the 34 second mark don't lift your leg up like he does, keep the supporting leg on the ice, while the stopping leg stays in front)

Snow plow stop (inside edges): Similar to the above, except both feet are pointing inward and the weight is evenly distributed:

T-Stop (outside edge):

(this video is actually really good at explaining it, so watch it in the it's entirety... the only thing I'd change would be instead of bending the ankle outward like she explains, instead, after setting the blade down, just lean back -- your weight and the lean will do the stopping -- you don't want use your leg muscles!)

Practice each one separately, then combine to do the hockey stop.

[MThockeydad 469]

Steps to achieve a hockey stop:

One foot snow plow (inside edge) -- move one leg in front at a northeast/northwest stance, move the toe in or ankle out, with 10% of the weight placed toward the ball of the foot. Meanwhile the other leg, FOR NOW, carries most of the weight and stays pointing straight forward (I refer to it as a 90/10 distribution, where 90% is on the supporting leg, and 10% on the stopping) -- The idea is to allow the stopping leg to find the inside edge FIRST before putting a lot of weight on it -- As you get better, you'll be able to transfer the weight from the supporting leg to the stopping leg.

This is what I tried to say in post #13. You explained it better. :)

[Campoli 9]

You both explained this perfectly, thanks very much! Coincidentally, I watched the same Youtube videos last night and applied them an hour ago at rec skate. Immediately on the ice I felt much more confident and was able to apply the one footed snow plow into a good left stop. My right stop were pretty good as well. These were some very good tips, so thanks again!

I am very happy with the 5/8" grind as well. I still have a lot of work to do but plan on practicing hard. At the same time I really need to also start conditioning more off the ice. I got gassed way too quickly and really felt it on the legs.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

HowToHockey has some of the best instructional videos out there.

Also, thanks for the T-Stop video. I've always wanted to be able to stop like that, I just had no idea how to ease into it (rather than just...trying it... and having it go very badly). Can always learn something from figure skating videos where things like backwards crossovers are a fundamental and not an advanced skating topic like they are in hockey.

[MThockeydad 469]

At the same time I really need to also start conditioning more off the ice. I got gassed way too quickly and really felt it on the legs.

I think the #1 best conditioning for hockey

...is more hockey.

I get out of shape in the summer time. :)

I'm sure one could spend time on the treadmill/bike/elliptical, but that's not fun. Hockey is fun. Just go out and skate as hard as you can. Next time, you can go the same speed without going as hard...so you skate harder so you can go faster the next time. It's a wonderful vicious cycle.

Being gassed might not be conditioning only. Do look at fueling correctly--complex carbs several hours before playing, easily digested foods an hour before playing, proper hydration, and good refuel afterward.

To add to what OptimusReim said, figure skating coaches sometimes offer power skating classes for hockey players. People who do nothing but skate can teach those of us who skate/pass/position/shoot/make plays a great deal. I took a 6-week power skating class this spring and it opened a huge door for me.

[Larry54 243]

I think the #1 best conditioning for hockey

...is more hockey.

I get out of shape in the summer time. :)

I'm sure one could spend time on the treadmill/bike/elliptical, but that's not fun. Hockey is fun. Just go out and skate as hard as you can. Next time, you can go the same speed without going as hard...so you skate harder so you can go faster the next time. It's a wonderful vicious cycle.

Being gassed might not be conditioning only. Do look at fueling correctly--complex carbs several hours before playing, easily digested foods an hour before playing, proper hydration, and good refuel afterward.

To add to what OptimusReim said, figure skating coaches sometimes offer power skating classes for hockey players. People who do nothing but skate can teach those of us who skate/pass/position/shoot/make plays a great deal. I took a 6-week power skating class this spring and it opened a huge door for me.

Definitely! Just look at figure skater Barbara Underhill who has been a power skating coach for several NHL teams.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

You both explained this perfectly, thanks very much! Coincidentally, I watched the same Youtube videos last night and applied them an hour ago at rec skate. Immediately on the ice I felt much more confident and was able to apply the one footed snow plow into a good left stop. My right stop were pretty good as well. These were some very good tips, so thanks again!

I am very happy with the 5/8" grind as well. I still have a lot of work to do but plan on practicing hard. At the same time I really need to also start conditioning more off the ice. I got gassed way too quickly and really felt it on the legs.

If your stil having that issue going to the left and your liking the 5/8ths sounds to me like you may have lost your profile and is making you off balanced. Are you in Toronto ?? I would be interested to know were abouts you went to Sport Chek.