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vhawk12

Shooting off the toe

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Hey guys, so I am mid-thirties, decent player and was always taught to take wristers from heel to toe. Now my 10yr old has been out for shinny with some Bantam and Midget AA players and they all shoot lasers off of the toe. With some research (ie. youtube vids especially the Easton ones), I get the principles and it makes sense, what I'm having trouble with is getting my top hand out and away from my body because when I do I feel I'm in a weaker position to flex the shaft, yet all the youtube vids and slow-mos of Kessel (I know he uses a super whippy stick), Ovi, etc. show their top hand out significantly away from their bodies. Am I missing something? Any tips?

Essentially I start the puck out on the toe with the heel slightly elevated and I push down on the toe of the stick as I pull in towards me and try to push down on the shaft as I get my lower hand in closer to my body and then release. I get pretty decent sauce on it, but I don't feel like I'm flexing the stick as much as I should be (I'm 6'1" 220lbs using an 85 flex Easton HTX).

Any suggestions/tips are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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I think eventually you will have some smart asses coming on here telling you that you are weak :ph34r::laugh::tongue:

Basically I think you might be over thinking about feeling the flex. I pretty much think with the action of the shot, and the speed at which it happens (with all the other stuff going on) you dont really notice the flexing. It just happens.

Although, i will add..i recently moved from a 60 flex Mako 2 to a 60 flex bauer nexus 4000. I much prefer the Bauer (even though its not a top end stick like my mako was). The flex profile is mid, and feels more natural to me... with this stick, i can notice the stick flexing as i shoot. My theory on me "feeling" the flex is that because the bauer is a mid flex..my lower hand is in the region of the flex zone... where as on low kick sticks..you hand is above it..and it is actually flexing..but you are more oblivious.

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Its a very specific technique that isnt really coached as most players can't do it, or I should say can't do it to a point that it will be a high percentage shot. The timing needed on this shot is crucial and dare I say its something you have to just do rather than try to work on. I have a "wrong foot" snap shot that I use around the top of the circles and its harder than many players slap shots.

This was not something I was ever coached to do it was something I just did. Sitting here thinking about it (far harder than being on the ice thinking about it) it you take a "wrong foot" wrist or snap shot more often than not the release will be quicker but the execution is far harder to get right. I have always been able to take a "wrong foot" wrist and snap shot and being on the "wrong foot" allows for the lazer toe release (if you get it right).

I am not sure that if you spent your playing days with a standard setup wrist shot if it would be conceivable to change??.. I am all for players trying stuff out side the box but I do feel as a coach I will always preach fundamentals and allow some personal expression if a player can prove it is the right way for him/her to do it.

I can imagine in the coming years however with more players copying what they see that this type of shot will be in many players arsenal but needs to be done from day one not 22 years and 3 months into a playing career. This is just my idea on the subject of course and as such could be a load of dog poo...

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Thanks for the replies guys, and for not just calling me weak! I have used my wife's DSLR camera to shoot some slow motion HD video at 60 frames/second it is blurry but I can see the shaft flexing a decent amount and more from the bottom of my hand down which is supposedly what the HTX kick point is designed to do.

I do want to say that using this method I think has actually helped my 8yr old daughter because it allows her to pull the puck towards her and then use her body weight to flex the stick. What I cautioned her of is 'flipping/flicking' too much and she pulls it towards herself, pushes down and then adds the snap at the right time and she's able to raise it about 2' from inside the hash marks with a nice tight spin on it. My 10yr old has been using this for a while now and he gets a lot of speed off of this method using a 50 flex V9E with the E28 curve, he's starting to develop the shooting off of the inside/wrong foot method now as well. I think that shooting off of the wrong foot also allows you to get your body over the bottom hand a little bit better as well.

I coach my daughter's Novice team and when we work on shooting I still teach the 'traditional' method, but most kids just sweep it as if it's a pass and then get frustrated they can't raise it so they resort to flicking/flipping it.

I guess the one question I still have is do you guys get your top hand out and away (in front) from your body when shooting? I seem to keep it tucked pretty close to my hip because it just feels stronger there, but I see the opposite in vids.

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Top hand fairly far away from the video I just took.

Lots of repetition will be key. Pulling the puck in before shooting off the toe as well. The more aggressive you pull, the more power and deception (lateral movement throwing goalie off)

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I start with the top hand far away, and pull it towards the hip. That flexes the shaft against my bottom hand and the blade on the ice.

Then I rotate my torso, while bending down at the waist, to release the shaft.

My lower hand's thumb is wrapped close to the pinkie, so that nothing gets in the way of the release.

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Starting the puck slightly behind you/your foot makes it much easier to get the butt end of the stick in front of you. If the puck is in front of you, it becomes very uncomfortable for most people to use that type of motion. With the puck behind you, the butt end automatically comes forward as the face closes down when you pull the puck in and forward.

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Still totally unable to use the quote function (or even cut & paste) on this forum, but this is a response to Trinituner's post regarding changing from a traditional wrist shot to the inside-foot snapper very late in your playing career:

My go-to shot before I hung up the skates for 25 years was the traditional, full set-up, weight-transfer wrister off the outside foot. My snapper was just a modified much quicker slap shot with a very short backswing (like ankle height) off the inside foot. This is all with wood sticks.

Since getting back on the ice with a modern composite, my wrister came right back but I've been spending a lot of time trying to develop that quick snapper without any backswing and I'm having trouble working the stick flex into it at all. It's starting to feel much more natural shooting off the inside skate but only with that leg straight and my weight leaning backwards. It's OK from in close but a lot less consistent than that stats guy in the video, but I can tell that it's all coming from me and not from the stick at all. The outside leg donkey kick helps a little but it's all still coming from me instead of the stick. All the guys with really hard shots like yours shoot off a bent inside leg but I get nothing but duds trying to do that, and it's even worse anytime I consciously try to press the toe (or any part of the blade) into the ice first. I can feel the stick flex in wrist shots and slap shots (Reebok 20Ks or CCM Stage 2s both with 85 Flex), but I get nothing flex-wise on the inside-foot snapper. In all cases, my top hand is as far away from my body as possible, to address the other issue raised in this thread, because I don't think you can possibly generate full power otherwise, stick-flex issues aside.

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Try having your centre of gravity go from the inside edge to the outside edge of your inside skate. I think that, unless you have a really long stick, you need to start with your knee bent, and drop your centre of gravity through the shot.

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To be clear in the original post, I wasn't just talking about shooting off of the inside foot. Having said that, I do find it easier to get my weight over the flex point of the stick when shooting off of the inside foot and a bit easier to get that forward lean on the stick. Also, what's your guys' opinions on say the Easton HTX versus the new Stealth CX? My understanding is the HTX is more for half slappers and one timers and the ultra-low kick of the Stealth CX is more suited to Kessel-like shots. I'd like to try them both side by side to feel the difference kick point makes.

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To be clear in the original post, I wasn't just talking about shooting off of the inside foot. Having said that, I do find it easier to get my weight over the flex point of the stick when shooting off of the inside foot and a bit easier to get that forward lean on the stick. Also, what's your guys' opinions on say the Easton HTX versus the new Stealth CX? My understanding is the HTX is more for half slappers and one timers and the ultra-low kick of the Stealth CX is more suited to Kessel-like shots. I'd like to try them both side by side to feel the difference kick point makes.

Well for me, the full weight transfer and snap shot that ends up on the outside foot is far stronger, but not necessarily more effective than the inside foot shot. Having the ability to pull the puck in across your body and timing that with the weight transfer to the outside leg creates more power for sure. There's more than one way to do it though.

Try having your centre of gravity go from the inside edge to the outside edge of your inside skate. I think that, unless you have a really long stick, you need to start with your knee bent, and drop your centre of gravity through the shot.

That is excellent advice. That's how I do it myself (narcissism perhaps). Get the inside foot under the center of your body and lean over/in front as far as you can, then snap the wrists, done.

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The "wrong foot" shot isn't a new invention. Players have been doing it for decades and it doesn't rely on shooting off the toe.

Agreed. I think messier used this technique quite a bit.

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Which flavor is that Kool-Aid?

If you are referring to the previous post (mine), let me explain.

When we put new white tape on our blades and take a few full heel to toe shots, there is only a thin black line left on the tape. This confirms what is seen on the video.

From a physics point of view, contacting the puck on its upper wsge will make it tip upwards, as explained in the video, because the puck's center of gravity is below the contact point. This also confirms what is seen on the video.

Finally, if I don't close my blade on full heel to toe shots with my shot motion, the black line on thw qhite tape does veer up the top of my blade. This matches what is explained on the video also.

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A video about puck contact on the blade, and when / why to shoot off the toe.

https://youtu.be/qgMyZ93x6-c

1. Bad analogy - jets need more runway space than smaller airplanes

2. More spin isn't a bad thing, spin is what makes a shot "heavy"

3. The reason you shoot off the toe is to make the release faster, it doesn't make your shot harder or give you more velocity.

In other words, a really bad video pretty much all the way around.

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1. Bad analogy - jets need more runway space than smaller airplanes

2. More spin isn't a bad thing, spin is what makes a shot "heavy"

3. The reason you shoot off the toe is to make the release faster, it doesn't make your shot harder or give you more velocity.

In other words, a really bad video pretty much all the way around.

I think the type of shot being explained in the video (also in agreement with your point 3.) is a scoring type of shot. So, more spin and a "heavy" shot is not needed (your point 2.; the twine should be bulging). And yes, as in the youtube comments, jets need much more runway space, so he should change his analogy.

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A "scoring type of shot"? Seriously? I guess there is one born every minute.

No wonder the stupid toe curves are flying off the shelves and no youngsters these days can take a slap shot or send a smooth cross ice pass.

"But dude, didn't you see me snipe from the top of the crease, thin mints."

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also explains why the art of a good back hand shot is being lost. Silly me, I always thought scoring was the point of every shot.

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