Dropping down in skate stiffnesss

[salibandy 21]

Hey guys,

I recently bought a Mako II skate which fits great, but I can't flex it for the life of me. I came from a Bauer One95 that I could flex and use the recoil from the boot to help with my skate. The Mako however is super stiff and gives me lace bite.

Will dropping down on model (lower end model) help with stiffness? I am thinking of getting another pair of skates to replace my Makos. What does everyone think of the stiffness (and recoil) of the Supreme 190, Supreme 180, the Vapor X100, or a high end Reebok?

[Mimizk 114]

One's feeling is estimable. So I don't want to say something like opposite to what you feeling though,

Mako was really stiffer than Bauer boots? I think the Bauer boots is one of the most stiffest skates in current hockey market. Mako is not soft either but lose at its solidity.

How long did you use your former Bauer One95 skates?

Perhaps it has lost its stiffness while you had been using. Especially most of general skate boots of today have glueing of bottom sole. Often it would be lost fixed power even past 1~2years. Such skates' holder can be shaken with just out sole and it fall down toward inside when you skating. When it would be caused, the skates make torque with spoiling your leg power. Then there are some cases that a player feel it as "recoil".

[flip12 699]

@salibandy, are you tying your Makos as tight as you would your Supremes? A lot of people end up dialing their lacing tension way back in Makos and VH because of how much they wrap around the foot in baking, which ends up bringing the stiffness in the boot very close to the foot. With too much lace tension, it can easily end up feeling like a cast, rather than a skate with sufficient room for movement and the foot's natural flexion while skating.

[Caihlen 67]

@salibandy, are you tying your Makos as tight as you would your Supremes? A lot of people end up dialing their lacing tension way back in Makos and VH because of how much they wrap around the foot in baking, which ends up bringing the stiffness in the boot very close to the foot. With too much lace tension, it can easily end up feeling like a cast, rather than a skate with sufficient room for movement and the foot's natural flexion while skating.

This. It took me a while to figure this out but I finally realized that my makos only needed to be snug. When baked, and fitted, they need just the slightest bit of tension on the laces.

[salibandy 21]

One's feeling is estimable. So I don't want to say something like opposite to what you feeling though,

Mako was really stiffer than Bauer boots? I think the Bauer boots is one of the most stiffest skates in current hockey market. Mako is not soft either but lose at its solidity.

How long did you use your former Bauer One95 skates?

Perhaps it has lost its stiffness while you had been using. Especially most of general skate boots of today have glueing of bottom sole. Often it would be lost fixed power even past 1~2years. Such skates' holder can be shaken with just out sole and it fall down toward inside when you skating. When it would be caused, the skates make torque with spoiling your leg power. Then there are some cases that a player feel it as "recoil".

I have tried on APXs when they came out, and I do remember them feeling like a cast, very similar to what I am feeling now, so I get what you mean, with regards to the Vapor line anyway.

I have considered the possibility that my One95s are pretty broken in, but I do remember them playing the same way when I first got them. I could be wrong though.

@salibandy, are you tying your Makos as tight as you would your Supremes? A lot of people end up dialing their lacing tension way back in Makos and VH because of how much they wrap around the foot in baking, which ends up bringing the stiffness in the boot very close to the foot. With too much lace tension, it can easily end up feeling like a cast, rather than a skate with sufficient room for movement and the foot's natural flexion while skating.

This. It took me a while to figure this out but I finally realized that my makos only needed to be snug. When baked, and fitted, they need just the slightest bit of tension on the laces.

I have been tying them looser at the top, and it does allow me more ankle flexion. However, it prevents me from using the boot as a spring every stride as compared to my One95, where the boot would load and unload. That springy feeling is what I miss, and I'm wondering if I dropped down to a Supreme 180, would it be soft enough to flex and provide me with that recoil feel. Maybe I should learn to use my calves more as the spring instead of the boot; coming from a speedskating background, it's a bit of a change to toe flick...

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

I am by no means the expert on this as others on the forum are but I have the same concern when I think about getting new skates and that makes sense to me. The stiffer skates can't, by their nature, allow you to work the ankle and "use" the skate. It is the main reason I still have my 7.0s.

[Mimizk 114]

I'm sorry for this rough picture. I'm already drinking!
I'm using this setting on my VH skates now. Pretty well. I don't know well though, I heard there is a person who have to need "cant" shim which is opposite to "medial" shim. Such people often having X-leg or can't skate with keeping straight knee angle.
I know 2 way for creating such this torque. 1 is to use shim. Another is to slide and re-punch rivet holes newly. Repeating though, I'm using shims. Re-punch the holes is really scientific method but too difficult and troublesome...

I had been feeling the same feeling (I can't say really the same though) when every I changed my skates. I'm satisfied with this shims setting. I'm using VH, probably most stiffest skates on the market but I can feel better torque.

I can't say this is absolute answer though I'd recommend you to test this way.

[Mimizk 114]

Add,
1) Please note that "torque" is thought as one of the primary factor to cause knee injury. There is a possibility that too much offset would cause you knee pain.
2) I'm using the medial shims, 1mm for rear, 2mm for front. This is because difference of elevation of the holder. I calculated and using these thickness for Lightspeed2 263 holder. If you need, you should calculate the correct number for your skate. I've been able to get enough torque such thinner shims.





This is rear, 1mm medial side shim.

Of course we can calculate theoretical value though, it's hard to measure numerically how it would be moved by medial or cant shims when we did such method. Oppositely, the method of re-punching and re-glueing skates' outsole for sliding holder is really scientific and easily measure the movement width. But if we take the way, we can't restore the boots' condition. Especially it's not better when the skates will be old and the outsole lost its glueing power. The method of using shims can solve such issue. When it would be caused, you should remove the medial shims. Or if you need more, you can insert cant shims for preventing too much fall down.

Scott is really good man. This page may be good help for you too as same for me.

[mapleleafs13 2]

the science is quite interesting. never thought that people shimmed in this manner.

[YesLanges 126]

Anybody have any idea of what modern skate offers the stiffest possible lateral stability? I tried NXGs and they weren't bad but even they weren't quite as supportive as my old Langes and the NXGs were actually harder to flex forward than the hinged boot I'm used to. If possible, I'd really like to find something made in this century that are as supportive as my Langes because the one thing that bothers me about them is that they're literally twice the weight of modern skates. (I also tried APX 2s and they were much too narrow.)

Is the answer to the above question different if I also need a toe box on the wider side?

[jonesy9020 77]

NXGs/MX3 post-bake will give you a better wrap around the ankle, which I think might be the feeling you're missing. They're a much much stiffer skate than the langes. Also APX2 in a wide size might be somewhere to look.

Most modern skates will not give as full of a wrap as older models because the emphasis is now on forward flex. That said, top end Supremes will wrap a lot more than Vapors.

Something like a One.8 might give you more of the wrap that you want still with a lot of stiffness.

[YesLanges 126]

Thanks, Jonesy, appreciate that.