NHL players in Graf

[CapsFan 5]

Sully is wearing XXXXs

[carterb 0]

Last time I bought skates (about five years ago now), I was lucky enough to be fitted by someone who really knew what they were doing (an ex-equipment guy of the Avalanche). He looked over my foot structure and ankles for quite some time, narrowed down the brands that would work for me, tried on tons of pairs, but he stressed what would work best all along, Graf. Being younger then I have to say I was lookng to get into Bauer Vapors (10 or 8), as that what was 'in' at the time.

Before my Graf's I was wearing CCM 892's (or some other high end CCM) and was plagued with constant blistering, sore ankles, and an overall poor skating ability. The Graf's I bought were the 502's, a then $300 skate, one of their low models. I distinctly remember feeling 10x better in several aspects of my skating my first skate with them. Sounds like hot air, but it was evident. I never once had a blister wearing my Graf's in the five years of wearing them, that was a constant in the CCM's. Five years later my 502's are still in great condition, and still complement my more advanced skill level. I'm having a hard time finding a reason to upgrade my skate, with the exception that they are heavy buggers though.

It's too bad not every LHS is filled with a proper skate fitter, as my local shops are either high school kids or guys who don't have such intricate knowledge.

[LkptTiger 1]

*Clears throat* The shop I work in is pretty much run by kids who, like myself, are still in school. Just because we're younger guys doesn't mean that we can't properly fit someone's foot for a skate. We have one or two guys who maybe aren't the best for the job (one of the guys who knows what they're doing usually jumps in before they can screw something up) but I'm happy to say that the people who come back after buying skates from me have rave reviews for them.

The Graf fitting system really isn't that hard to understand if it's explained properly. I usually just run through the differences in each series ("7-series, G-series, Ultra-G-series") and then run through the differences in fit ("03, 05, 07, 09, 35").

[GrafPro55 0]

*Clears throat* The shop I work in is pretty much run by kids who, like myself, are still in school. Just because we're younger guys doesn't mean that we can't properly fit someone's foot for a skate. We have one or two guys who maybe aren't the best for the job (one of the guys who knows what they're doing usually jumps in before they can screw something up) but I'm happy to say that the people who come back after buying skates from me have rave reviews for them.

The Graf fitting system really isn't that hard to understand if it's explained properly. I usually just run through the differences in each series ("7-series, G-series, Ultra-G-series") and then run through the differences in fit ("03, 05, 07, 09, 35").

Good point about the age. If a 10 year old came to one of our fitting clinics, he would leave after 3 days knowing everything he needed to fit any foot and any stride. You just need someone who cares. Someone who isn't afraid to tell you "NO" when you ask for the 800 dollar S15 or One95, just because your buddy has them. Most expensive doesn't always mean "best". If it fits you properly, then sure, buy it. The owner of the last store I was at, had a relationship with the Easton rep, and would put everyone in Eastons. Girls with super narrow feet, swimming in 999 toecaps. But the parents trusted him because he was the "owner". Had a bit of grey hair. Looked like he knew his stuff. He was a terrible fitter.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I'm in no way affiliated with Graf, but I do understand that they have several different models for different foot types. There should be a chart in every shop though..It might be helpful to see it on the wall..etc..Graf makes a pretty good skate, but maybe needs to increase the awareness of their products and maybe have better marketing.

Totally agree that Graf needs to send out some sort of chart to hang near the skate display wall. I get customers all the time in the shop that are totally thrown because the g3's and the g35's are the same price. "Higher number must mean the skate is better, no?" No sir, graf really doesn't make a top end or bottom end skate. They make skates for different feet. It's pretty confusing for customers.

There is a chart, but if you know their models you can spot what model they need by their foot type. I know I did.

Understandable, but what I'm referring to is the customer..Not the shop employee. I think the more information customers are armed with, the better off they are. Sure, some guy is going to want Graf 703s cuz his buddy wears them, but has no idea that his foot shape isnt built for that skate, but settles for a larger/smaller width in a 703, even though it still doesnt fit him well volume-wise. I think it would also increase awareness that each of the Graf 700 or Ultra series of skate is top of the line for different foot types. Many consumers have no idea the 600 series even exist. All we see in pro shops are the 700 series, the Ultras and the 301. I think a lot of skaters could benefit from a 600 series skate.

The more information customers are armed with, the easier the online purchases. Find a good local fitter. We all have access to the same info. It just boils down to the ones who care more.

[LkptTiger 1]

Sometimes customers make it a lot harder than it has to be. I've had people give me a LOT of difficulty because I'm not willing to sell people a skate that isn't going to work for them - whether they come into the shop already set on a skate that doesn't fit the shape of their foot or a parent is trying to buy their kid skates three sizes too big with the rationale that "they'll last him awhile" or whatever. I guess I just care too much...I refuse to put people in a skate that they're not going to be happy with, and some people don't seem to appreciate the fact that I have their best interest in mind.

A lot of people are just stupid - but the stupid people are usually the opinionated ones; the smarter consumers sit back and listen while I try to help them make an educated decision.

[DarkStar50 679]

We will only sell a skate that we know does not fit the customer correctly after we have thoroughly explained why the skate is too big or incorrect. Then we clearly explain that this skate cannot be returned under any circumstances. At the register, on the receipt we type in FINAL SALE. We hate to do it but if the customer insists, then so be it. But those skates are not coming back no matter how many problems the customer has. We hardly ever do this but if we have to-FINAL SALE. This usually happens with rec skaters, not dedicated hockey players. Sorry to go off topic.

[Aussie Joe 0]

A lot of people are just stupid - but the stupid people are usually the opinionated ones; the smarter consumers sit back and listen while I try to help them make an educated decision.

One of the most intelligent comments about comsumers I have ever read. Although the funny thing around here is that most consumers know more about their LHS's product then their employees. A sorry state that sees almost 80% of purchases done via online stores.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

You just have to lay it all out for the consumer. A customer doesnt want to feel pressured into buying something they don't want. They have a preconceived notion on what they are going to buy when they come skate shopping, but since they may not be schooled on spec and whatnot, chances are their dream skate won't work for them. So - you just have to lay it all out there and not pressure them - tell them why the skate you are recommending will work for them. At the end of the day, they want to feel like they made the decision.

[TBLfan 25]

It's sad that a lot of people dont understand that a person selling the items in some cases might know more than they do... The internet makes everyone an expert, look at puckmugger... Sad thing is that he actually owns a shop.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

...that is in an Airstream.

[TBLfan 25]

upon reading his reviews he shouldn't own a car. Just a "special" helmet and a bib.

... and we all know what helmet it would be!

[JPB_69 0]

*Clears throat* The shop I work in is pretty much run by kids who, like myself, are still in school. Just because we're younger guys doesn't mean that we can't properly fit someone's foot for a skate. We have one or two guys who maybe aren't the best for the job (one of the guys who knows what they're doing usually jumps in before they can screw something up) but I'm happy to say that the people who come back after buying skates from me have rave reviews for them.

The Graf fitting system really isn't that hard to understand if it's explained properly. I usually just run through the differences in each series ("7-series, G-series, Ultra-G-series") and then run through the differences in fit ("03, 05, 07, 09, 35").

*Clears throat* ...and your advice on blades and pitch sucks too. Damn kids. ;)

How you been Lockport?

[epstud74 24]

I'm in no way affiliated with Graf, but I do understand that they have several different models for different foot types. There should be a chart in every shop though..It might be helpful to see it on the wall..etc..Graf makes a pretty good skate, but maybe needs to increase the awareness of their products and maybe have better marketing.

Totally agree that Graf needs to send out some sort of chart to hang near the skate display wall. I get customers all the time in the shop that are totally thrown because the g3's and the g35's are the same price. "Higher number must mean the skate is better, no?" No sir, graf really doesn't make a top end or bottom end skate. They make skates for different feet. It's pretty confusing for customers.

There is a chart, but if you know their models you can spot what model they need by their foot type. I know I did.

Understandable, but what I'm referring to is the customer..Not the shop employee. I think the more information customers are armed with, the better off they are. Sure, some guy is going to want Graf 703s cuz his buddy wears them, but has no idea that his foot shape isnt built for that skate, but settles for a larger/smaller width in a 703, even though it still doesnt fit him well volume-wise. I think it would also increase awareness that each of the Graf 700 or Ultra series of skate is top of the line for different foot types. Many consumers have no idea the 600 series even exist. All we see in pro shops are the 700 series, the Ultras and the 301. I think a lot of skaters could benefit from a 600 series skate.

The more information customers are armed with, the easier the online purchases. Find a good local fitter. We all have access to the same info. It just boils down to the ones who care more.

Didnt we discuss earier how online prices are now on par with local hockey shop prices? It isnt too often that I find a skate fitter that knows what he's talking about, unless he's the shop owner. Also, some people tend to inject their own personal biases into the conversation as well. Someone may fit into a Graf skate, but if they're badmouthing Graf the whole time because of their piss-poor service record with dealers..It will have an impact on the sale and the customer's opinion. There are many good skate fitters out there, but not enough. You have to have a passion for hockey equipment to get the knowledge you or other top-flight skate shop pros have.

[LkptTiger 1]

^^^^

I'd be doing better, Jim, if you told all the nice people here how you really felt about the TUUKS had to run around and get from the Sabres, then expertly mounted on your G-3s. ;)

[JPB_69 0]

G3's...

....And yes, VERY pleased with the advice/help given. Couldn't be happier with them.

So, looking forward to the new Office episodes?

[english15x 3]

G3's...

....And yes, VERY pleased with the advice/help given. Couldn't be happier with them.

So, looking forward to the new Office episodes?

new office episodes?

did they finally stop the strike?

[JPB_69 0]

Yes indeed.

[english15x 3]

Yes indeed.

WOW. so this thursday, new ones ?

[LkptTiger 1]

Whaa? I would have bet my left nut that they were G3s. I suppose it's a good thing I didn't, or I'd be out a left nut, eh?

Back to the topic: The number of people who return to Graf skate after skate after skate speaks for itself. Almost all of my co-workers are wearing Grafs and say they refuse to put anything else on their feet. Performance-wise, I loved my Grafs - but I went through a few too many pair a bit too quickly and decided to go back to Vapors...and that makes me the black sheep in the shop.

[Fletch 219]

I went over to Hockeymonkey's retail store today and had the chance to try on the Graf G3 Ultra on my left foot (right foot is still in a walking cast).

I have to say, I was very impressed by the fit. Very snug, no pain, no hot spots whatsoever - I was wearing a regular white athletic sock (normally I would have worn an Oxysock but I didn't anticipate going over to the shop) but even with the regular sock they fit really well. A little tight in the toe, but not *too* tight - just very snug. Depth was perfect - my foot passed the pencil test with flying colors.

If there was one issue, it may have been that when I pushed my forefoot down a bit (putting pressure on the ball of the foot), I felt a bit of heel slippage but it may have been because of the sock. When I am looking into new skates to buy around June I will wear an appropriate sock and see if what heel options I would have and see if the slippage was still an issue.

One question - didn't someone say something about forward pitch in the Graf's being a problem? They didn't seem to pitch forward anymore than the Vapor XXXX that I held it up to.

[srv2miker 0]

One question - didn't someone say something about forward pitch in the Graf's being a problem? They didn't seem to pitch forward anymore than the Vapor XXXX that I held it up to.

You won't see it in the boot, it's in the holder. The Cobras are very toe down, and while the Vapors are as well they're nothing like Grafs. I know had to have mine profiled more medium when I had 727s.

[LkptTiger 1]

The boot has some pitch to it, but, yes, the bulk of the aggressive lean lies in the Cobra holder. Believe me - the Graf pitch is substantially different than that on the NBH/Vapor skate; I had to do quite a bit of tinkering to get comfortable again when I switched back to Vapors.

[TBLfan 25]

The boot is forward pitched around 3mm right? That would be pretty much the same as a THC skate.

[Fletch 219]

One question - didn't someone say something about forward pitch in the Graf's being a problem? They didn't seem to pitch forward anymore than the Vapor XXXX that I held it up to.

You won't see it in the boot, it's in the holder. The Cobras are very toe down, and while the Vapors are as well they're nothing like Grafs. I know had to have mine profiled more medium when I had 727s.

I see. I think I would probably put a C+ holder on the skate anyway though....