CCM Pro Tacks

[interpathway 9]

Think about the U+ and the Vector lines struggling to carve out a part of NBHs share (Vapors/Supremes). Graf has the custom boot fittings covered, and RBK has loyal supporters of the pump. It's tough.

[Alan 0]

CCM is having enough trouble getting one skate line working right in the marketplace at the moment.

Could sombody in the know elaborate please?

They seem to work fine for Ovechkin/Thornton, etc????

[larrivee 3]

CCM is having enough trouble getting one skate line working right in the marketplace at the moment.

Could sombody in the know elaborate please?

They seem to work fine for Ovechkin/Thornton, etc????

Custom skates are going to work well. The common U+ complaints can (mostly) be neutralized by custom mods to their preference. These guys dont have to worry about durability either, as it's a drop in the bucket for them to order up new pairs.

Not to mention the Vapor line has not had a major speedbump as far as retail flops, and the one95 has been a huge success. When the 8090's went away the crying about the death of the supreme line was very loud- you dont hear that anymore. You do still hear the lament on the Tacks though........CCM hasn't coaxed their die-hards into the new boots the way Bauer has.

Bauer has just been consistent with their retail offerings as well as their pro lines.

If I were Bauer I'd be more concerned with Warrior bringing out a skate line right now. From whats been said here on their pro line support, plus their retail penetration they have tremendous potential. How their retail protective line does may foreshadow what could happen with a skate line.

[Alan 0]

Makes sense.

I had no clue warrior was planning on making skates!

[larrivee 3]

I dont know if they are- I was just speculating. I was merely saying that right now there is a big opportunity for someone to bump CCM/RBK out of the #2/#3 spot in the market. Of course, Easton probably thought they could jump right in one of those top spots based off of their glove and stick sales too.

I've got to assume warrior is at least thinking about skates- but the way the economy is right now they have to be damn sure they are going to sell enough to cover the R&D and make some beyond that.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

If I were Bauer I'd be more concerned with Warrior bringing out a skate line right now. From whats been said here on their pro line support, plus their retail penetration they have tremendous potential. How their retail protective line does may foreshadow what could happen with a skate line.

Yeah, but Bauer has the best pro line support in the skate market PERIOD. We're talking 70% here. They have nothing to worry about, yet, still don't rest on their laurels.

[larrivee 3]

If I were Bauer I'd be more concerned with Warrior bringing out a skate line right now. From whats been said here on their pro line support, plus their retail penetration they have tremendous potential. How their retail protective line does may foreshadow what could happen with a skate line.

Yeah, but Bauer has the best pro line support in the skate market PERIOD. We're talking 70% here. They have nothing to worry about, yet, still don't rest on their laurels.

Yeah, I don't see anyone knocking them off anytime soon- certainly not as long as they keep innovating and treating the pros right. Warrior could take a bite out if they brought out something that really performed well- but Bauer has so many years of trial and error behind them, it would be so difficult to make up that chasm of knowledge for Warrior, even if they threw tons of money at it. Still, a good product (like Vapor good) could make them a player in the skate market real fast if they can get it on the feet of the guys wearing the gloves. It didnt seem like mission or Easton could get their skates on people's feet fast enough to get some sales inertia behind them.

When I think sticks I think Easton (and Warrior more and more). When I think skates I think Bauer (and CCM less and less). There just isnt anybody using CCM around here, but still tons of kids in old ass Supreme's and Vapors. It's a little funny too because tons of them wear #4 at open hockey for Lecavalier who is a CCM poster boy.

I guess the question is how can CCM get their inertia back at retail- a new Tacks line isn't the answer in my opinion.

[TBLfan 25]

In my opinion, that's why Bauer is getting stronger in the skate market by the year. They are on a 2 year cycle with two major lines, so that's a new high-end skate every year. They have 3 lines with 4 different fits, most people are covered in terms of fit. Bauer continues to raise the bar EVERY year.

CCM/RBK has sat practically idle until the U+, the biggest "advancement" in more than ten years they did (previous to the U+) was using t-blades. The new Reebok line is still sitting on idle.

Easton has spent a long time fixing the bugs in their composite boot. Mission was doing their best but between the name changes and their roller hockey reputation, they didn't stand a chance.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Oh so true and quite a shame.

CCM is having enough trouble getting one skate line working right in the marketplace at the moment.

Maybe it's because they are making the wrong skate. at least in my circle, the Vector/U+ has not earned that great of a reputation, especially in terms of durability.

[DarkStar50 679]

CCM is having enough trouble getting one skate line working right in the marketplace at the moment.

Could sombody in the know elaborate please?

They seem to work fine for Ovechkin/Thornton, etc????

When the CCM rep comes into the shop and says CCM is taking back all the 2008 U+ in my inventory, that would qualify as totally screwing up the skate line. I was just lucky I canceled a lot of the 2008 U+ skates before they were shipped last year. Once the dealer returns the 2008 U+ skates, they get the "new and improved" 2009 U+ skates. As Herb Brooks said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[larrivee 3]

I had no idea they were doing dealer recalls on the U+, thats crazy.

[DarkStar50 679]

Yes, and they only offered to take back the Sr U+, not the Jr U+. Thanks but no thanks.

[epstud74 24]

I understand the U+ technology will be available in 2009 in a 2nd line skate? Much like the V08 this year?

[Fredrik 0]

The Pro Tacks was a much better skate than the U+ i.m.o thats what annoys me.

[Ital79 0]

I understand the U+ technology will be available in 2009 in a 2nd line skate? Much like the V08 this year?

What exactly is U+ technology? Did CCM reinvent the wheel or is this better performance through marketing? Maybe that's the issue; they got away from focusing on equipment and put most of their chips in marketing new materials/graphics and try to sell that as 'technology'.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

[TBLfan 25]

The U+ and Pro Tacks aren't even remotely comparable when it comes to technology.

How would the Pro Tacks compare to the Vapors/one95s, Easton SE16/S17? Not well. The only thing it would compare to would be the Reebok line... but no pump... and we know how well the 8K skate did.

[aarondevera 0]

The U+ and Pro Tacks aren't even remotely comparable when it comes to technology.

How would the Pro Tacks compare to the Vapors/one95s, Easton SE16/S17? Not well. The only thing it would compare to would be the Reebok line... but no pump... and we know how well the 8K skate did.

That's because the 8K was ugly as sin. I seriously think a top-end, Pump-less RBK skate would sell, because no one would have to be skeptical about the durability of Pump technology if they're jumping from another brand.

... well, I don't speak for everyone, but I'D buy that skate.

[Ital79 0]

The U+ and Pro Tacks aren't even remotely comparable when it comes to technology.

Care to elaborate on the technological differences between Pro-Tacks & U+? I understand I'm a bit skeptical by nature, but besides using different materials/graphics/marketing - what makes the U+ a superior boot?

[TBLfan 25]

It's fully thermomoldable and probably half the weight of a Pro Tack skate. You're comparing the performance of a 67 Chevy Nova to a Z06 Corvette.

In skate terms, it's a big advancement. Between the Vapor XXXX and the Pro Tack, we're talking weight and stiffness(obviously fit)... But when you start talking about a fully moldable boot, we're talking the difference between tube holders and LS2. In stick terms, original aluminum shafts to the current generation OPS. A whole different level.

[ahbroody 1]

Hold on the tacks dont fit like the reebok in the heel at all. Which for many is one of the favorite things about the Tacks. Its definetly mine.

Yes they both are slightly wider, flat arch, and good volume, but the heel is way different. I dont like the reeboks heel its to wide. I dont trust the Pump system and it just doesnt fit how I like it. ALso the idea of pumping up every skate is just not appealing. Then you add the possibility of a bladder failure and its Meh. One of the big differences you left out between the tacks and the light skates are durability.

I tried on multiple pairs of reebok pumps and didnt like. The Tacks heel was nice and snug and really locked down the heel.

As to the weight. Didnt JR in this or another thread mention that the blade runner combo on the U+ caused a substantial weight loss in that skate? Wonder how much lighter the Tacks would be with those. I also think to much is made of the weight thing. Patty Marleau hauls friggin ass in his reebok pumps which are definetly not lighter than the U+ one95, S15 or didnt feel that way when I picked them up. If your fast your fast light skates arent going to make u substantially faster. Skating better seems to do that job ROFL.

[aarondevera 0]

+1 on the skate-faster-on-your-own-you-fatty philosophy.

It's no secret that most companies nowadays are trying to slightly bulk up their top-end skates with more durable materials, since they recognize a lot of people simply can't dish out $600+ every year or so. The Reebok fit IS different from the old Tack fit, but I still find that Reebok skates fit more former Tack users than not. Part of me believes that the Reebok line can probably fit a wider range of feet in comparison to the '06 Pro Tack, and that has a lot to do with the adjustable heel.

I've sharpened a few pro-stock 9K's over the past year or so, and none of them had a working Pump. One customer was nice enough to let me try his on, and those fit incredibly similar to my '06 Pro Tacks. I still maintain that it'd be nice for CCM/Reebok to maybe release a single, top-end skate with that same fit, minus the Pump.

[TBLfan 25]

If you were looking for the Tacks fit, you should have looked at the Supreme 70... but the RBK line was just fine for plenty of people.

I don't think you comprehended what I was saying. Weight is NOT the key difference, technology IE the thermomoldable boot IS the key difference. If you take a Nova and a Z06 Corvette and equate weight, the Corvette will still out preform the Nova. If you take an aluminum shaft and somehow make a high-end OPS the same weight, the OPS is still going to perform better. Sure the Nova will last for 30 years, maybe... and sure the aluminum shaft is probably going to last longer than the OPS but that is NOT the point. CCM never said "The U+, the skate that will last for 10 years."

The rocket runner does help take the weight reduction to another level but if you compare the boot of the Pro Tack to the U+, you're still looking at a much(relatively) lighter skate in the U+.

What you guys really aren't understanding is that most of the customers want something to perform, no one cares whether a skate will last for 5 years. Have you seen how most people treat their gear? They're lucky that for most people a pair of skates will STILL make it past 2 years. AND on top of EVERYTHING this is CCM's first big step into this new technology, have you EVER heard of a first line of anything having issues? No never!

Basically, what you guys are asking is for CCM to bring back a Tack fit(that varied, by the way) with Tack durability for literally, what?.. 2% of the market? I can't IMAGINE why they wouldn't do that!

[Ital79 0]

It's fully thermomoldable and probably half the weight of a Pro Tack skate. You're comparing the performance of a 67 Chevy Nova to a Z06 Corvette.

CCM Pro-Tacks had the 'FIT' system regarding heat molding.

Easton claims the lightest skate @ 25oz (rounded up). That's roughly 2 pop cans. The latest Pro Tacks do not weigh as much as 4 pop cans...no way. Not even my old 552 Super Tacks from my NCAA days (1995/6-ish?) weigh that much. And those had SLM holders, leather, and look like they've been through hell...

I see where you are coming from; heat molding and weight savings are innovations...but does that necessarily make it a better skate or make their owners better skaters? When engineering anything, there is always a compromise - what compromises have been made in the name of weight savings? What compromises have been made to accommodate better heat moldable materials? If no compromises were made and if these innovations indeed make the U+ a better skate; I'd like to know about them. I like details, the more technical the better...not generalities/analogies that sound like they've been clipped from a brochure.

If anyone on here is a rep, a tech-savvy LHS owner, or a CCM/Reebok/Adidas/whoeverthehellownsthemnow employee; I'd love to hear from you.

Here's a better question;

The CCM Pro-Tacks retailed somewhere around $4-450 right?

New CCM U+ MSRP/MAP is $630/$530

Are consumers really getting $150 worth out of a better skate?

Based on some threads here regarding the durability & fit (or lack there of) of the U+; I'm not quite sure. Hence, I asked about the technology regarding these premium skates over their successors -> the venerable Pro Tacks.

[TBLfan 25]

We're not talking about just heat moldable foam. It's a completely different creature. We're not talking about a skate that is moldable to help break in a skate, we're talking about a skate that needs to be heat molded to take shape of your foot.

If you look at my one95s(I don't own U+ skates but the technology is comparable), the ankle buldges are different sizes. If you look at my ankles, they aren't exactly the same, one is more pronounced... That is a fully moldable boot. These skates ideas are to fill negative space by forming to your foot. The Tacks were made with heat moldable foam that basically allowed the foam to mold around pressure points, that negative space was still there.

The price, that's just not comparable. Different materials, differences in assembly, R&D, the economy... soo many factors.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Ounces and fluid ounces are different...LOL

Here's a better question;

The CCM Pro-Tacks retailed somewhere around $4-450 right?

New CCM U+ MSRP/MAP is $630/$530

Are consumers really getting $150 worth out of a better skate?

Spec-wise, yes. TBL covered it.

Pro Tacks were heavy with the Pro Armour package that were on them.