2013 Bauer Products

[chippa13 1844]

Even having a share in the show won't make you a major player if people can't go to a store and touch your product. As I said, hockey is predominantly a touch first then buy market.

[AIREAYE 248]

Even having a share in the show won't make you a major player if people can't go to a store and touch your product. As I said, hockey is predominantly a touch first then buy market.

Exactly my point, thank you.

[Tommyj214 3]

Exactly what Chippa13 said, and use Winwell, Miken, Combat for an example.

[Chadd 916]

Even having a share in the show won't make you a major player if people can't go to a store and touch your product. As I said, hockey is predominantly a touch first then buy market.

For some, you're right. But when a new or smaller manufacturer talks to a dealer, the first question a dealer asks is "what NHL players are using the product?" You also have online dealers that put stuff up for sale on a "pre-sale" and sell a ton of new stuff from established manufacturers. Older guys want to see and feel the gear before they buy it, kids tend to want the newest stuff from their favorite brand and buy it without seeing or touching the product.

[Dangles83 24]

Won't you agree most NHL players know very little about their skates, even their ROH? Technology and innovation are a bit lost on an NHL player. Give him a pair of skates and he is ready to go. This is an industry with a small number of players in North America compared to so many other sports. The costs for the players, travel or beer league, are a lot. Travel parents have X amount of money already invested in their player and beer leaguers don't spend money on gear until they absolutely have to. The hockey demagraphic is not that great in the real world setting of bringing new players into the sport. It costs too much. Wait until you see the prices of new hockey gear for 2013!! Don't say you were not warned.

You mean it's actually possible that they are going to raise the price of a stick beyond the already absurd price of $260?? Skates beyond $800? Gloves beyond $230?

[DarkStar50 679]

Anything is possible. "To infinity and beyond!!"

[bolt91 31]

I'm buying on clearance from now on if that's the case...

[MarsB 33]

As for performance it does not have to be the latest technology all it has to do is increase performance over your competitor. A good example is the UA compression stuff that became so popular, when in realty your body doesn’t breath as well and you get tired quicker, so you drink more Gatorade which takes your body enormous amounts of energy to process it during a work out which tires you out even more. So if you use a 100% cotton shirt, you’ll be better off over a 60 minute game, classic example of old technology which cost more since 100% cotton is a lot more expensive then new technology made from synthetic fiber.

Where in God's name did you come up with that theory? So many incorrect things in this paragraph!

[Dangles83 24]

I will be interested to hear more about the APX2, because from what I have read so far, other than the tongue mods and the steel trigger system, I am not hearing any big advances...

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

The big advance is the lacing system, which I described in detail in this thread.

[talkintothemike 4]

As for performance it does not have to be the latest technology all it has to do is increase performance over your competitor. A good example is the UA compression stuff that became so popular, when in realty your body doesn’t breath as well and you get tired quicker, so you drink more Gatorade which takes your body enormous amounts of energy to process it during a work out which tires you out even more. So if you use a 100% cotton shirt, you’ll be better off over a 60 minute game, classic example of old technology which cost more since 100% cotton is a lot more expensive then new technology made from synthetic fiber.

Wow....Somebody needs to let every athlete in the world know that cotton is better than the new synthetic fibers...

[innotastic 12]

The big advance is the lacing system, which I described in detail in this thread.

i'm actually really excited for this and hope when it comes to the supreme i can be bothered to buy another $700 skate. I may be misinterpreting the concept but It sounds like you'll get some real 'support', if i dare paraphrase, to the top of the boot. who knows, it might even help with lace bite? (feel free to interrupt my fantasizing).

I don't want to add too much to the side tracking of this thread, but I will comment on the prison manufacturing concept. private prisons are already an enterprise on itself with far too much political influence. If you start contracting with prisons you create a demand for essentially 'slave labour' and what you see already in today's political atmosphere is the increase in minimum sentences, increased number of criminal offences, and less parole. These strategies do not prevent or reduce crime (and there is a strong, strong body of research say that all they do is increase crime). They do, however, increase the prison labour force.

So I strongly suggest you weigh the consequences of what you are proposing and the far reaching socio, political, economical implications it has on our society.

p.s. I do not disagree, however, with prisons using labour programs as a form of rehabilitation and reintroduction into society. But this must be done with society and the inmates best interest in mind, not corporations.

[Gummer12 134]

Patents are only good for X amount of years... during that time, Licensing is how 3rd party mfrs can make it.. after that time expires.. it's fair game. I'm a few years removed from the last time I looked at these laws, but iirc, there was some sort of option to extend X.. but I forget exactly how it all works out.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Right, I think this is something that is going to be enforced now.

Bauer has the Step profile covered in the LS3, and LS2 and LS3 is back to being Canadian-made, which was the better steel; there was a transitional period and went back to Taiwan. But I remember sharpening the LS2 from two years ago that was Canadian and it was much better.

CCM and Easton have new steel in 2013, with CCM's being much better than it used to be.

But there's certainly no stopping Bauer from DLCing their steel.

[TommyKru06 2]

As far as the lacing system JR mentioned in post #52:

The story about it is instead of layering stiffeners upon leather and then putting eyelets on them, the APX2 system is actually one piece; made of the same material as the holder (not metal as someone said).

Is it wrong to draw comparisons (or make an analogy) to the EQ50 skate where eyelets are part of a full carbon piece much like the heel?

Not that it IS carbon but just that the eyelets wont have leather stitched over/around them?

Thanks

[Tommyj214 3]

Right, I think this is something that is going to be enforced now.

Bauer has the Step profile covered in the LS3, and LS2 and LS3 is back to being Canadian-made, which was the better steel; there was a transitional period and went back to Taiwan. But I remember sharpening the LS2 from two years ago that was Canadian and it was much better.

CCM and Easton have new steel in 2013, with CCM's being much better than it used to be.

But there's certainly no stopping Bauer from DLCing their steel.

haha, great, here comes crappy steel!

[Jason 65]

I've noticed that recent CCM steel is garbage. I hope 2013 brings something better. As for LS3's being like Step's profile. It's not really. The finish isn't as nice and it's definitely shorter too. One of two things will happen... Either people will move away from Bauer skates to get the steel they want or they will swap holders to the LS2. I'm guessing the latter. It will likely work out fine for Bauer, but it is a real drag for the consumer IMO.

[jimmy 194]

Patents are only good for X amount of years... during that time, Licensing is how 3rd party mfrs can make it.. after that time expires.. it's fair game. I'm a few years removed from the last time I looked at these laws, but iirc, there was some sort of option to extend X.. but I forget exactly how it all works out.

Isn't there an exception to patent law that allows the owner of a product to repair and alter the product? As such they can use aftermarket parts. There is a huge market for aftermarket parts in just about every industry. For example, I modified the firing pin on one of my pistols with an aftermarket lightened stainless version. Same pin, same function and fit. I'm guessing here, but prob the same applies to repairing a skate.

[AIREAYE 248]

I've noticed that recent CCM steel is garbage. I hope 2013 brings something better. As for LS3's being like Step's profile. It's not really. The finish isn't as nice and it's definitely shorter too. One of two things will happen... Either people will move away from Bauer skates to get the steel they want or they will swap holders to the LS2. I'm guessing the latter. It will likely work out fine for Bauer, but it is a real drag for the consumer IMO.

I think you're overvaluing this steel/holder thing. As a whole, most customers aren't aware of the differences/benefits and don't really care. However if you're referring to those customers that do, then I agree.

[Stoop 1]

The current rule is that patents are good for 20 years from filing. You can not extend beyond that. JA is dead-on saying that it is worthless if the holding entity doesn't enforce it. As for Jimmy, yeah, a patent doesn't stop you from modifying a product you bought.

[Jason 65]

Does anyone know what the IMS helmets look like? Do the 9.0 or 11.0 share the Re-akt shell or look like any another existing helmets?

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

We'll address that in the near future.

[squat 5]

Seeing a lot of the guys that skate for a living continue to use TUUK holders, a vast majority use the LS2, but for guys that can swap into their 3-5 pairs of gloves every game and change sticks between periods and shifts I would like to see how many guys getting paid swap. I can see travel teams and Jr's using them in droves.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Just had a conference call with CJ Ficek at Bauer - he is the product manager for helmets and facial for Bauer.

They are introducing 3 new helmets, but will have 3 helmet families; RE-AKT, which covers linear and rotational impacts, IMS (Impact Management System,) and the standard Bauer helmets (5100, 4500 and 2100.)

RE-AKT remains unchanged for 2013.

Now, IMS are helmets that rate high for impact; there are three new helmets in this line as well as the 7500.

The IMS 11.0 is what is replacing the Cascade M11 Pro; the biggest advance in the helmet is that they are backing up the Seven technology (more on that later) with PoronXRD in key areas. It still keeps the same adjustment system as the M11 Pro. Another key feature is that the Poron and the foam liner in the helmet will be perforated for airflow; which was my biggest issue when I was using the M11 Pro. MSRP $159, available June 15, made in Liverpool, NY, along with all of the different colorways.

The IMS 9.0 is the same shell as the RE-AKT (other than that it now has a spring-loaded occipital lock system instead of the tab that is on the RE-AKT,) however, the internals are different. It has their Vertex foam, but doesn't have the Suspend-Tech liner that is found on the RE-AKT. It has a thin layer of VN on top of the Vertex, so at first glance, if you were to flip the helmet around and look into it, it'd look like a VN helmet. It is essentially what a pro VN RE-AKT would look like, if it existed.

One point that has to be made is that every NHLer you saw wearing a RE-AKT was wearing the off-the-shelf version. So, now, they have an option if they like that fit/VN feel and don't want the Suspend-Tech, and so do you. MSRP $139, available April 15.

The IMS 7.0 is the M11 helmet, however, with the redesigned Seven Technology. Seven tested really well for high-impact, however, not as good on the low-impact side, as the majority of hockey hits are exactly that. The solution was to soften the coils so that they compress easier. MSRP $119, available June 15, made in Liverpool, NY, along with all of the different colorways.

The 7500 is in this group as well, unchanged.

9900 will still be offered in the line through 2013.

Facial remains unchanged, but one product has (finally) been tweaked, and that is the Concept2. It is now known as the Concept3; enhanced vision and airflow; vents have been made bigger, and now it comes with a double-coat of anti-scratch material in addition to anti-fog. Even comes with a helmet bag.

There's a new anti-fog product that can be used across the board on all Bauer visors; will be available in two forms; spray and wipes. The wipes will be a 30-pack and clean as well as add a layer of anti-fog solution onto the visor.

[Chadd 916]

Glad to see they made those tweaks to the Cascade products, it's the logical progression of the design.