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Cooke cuts Karlsson

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You know, I've watched the replay a dozen times and I keep changing my opinion on the hit. Do I think Cooke tried to slice or stomp on Karlsson's Achilles? No. Do I think he tried to to slew foot Karlsson, lost his balance, and this ended up being the consequence? I'm leaning that way, especially given Cooke's history.

There was absolutely no slew footing motion here. You're seeing things. This play is very common in todays game. You could find countless replays of this exact play in every single NHL game. It is extremely common to drive somebody into the boards with your knee pushing up against the guys backside. Like Aaron Ward said, that play is second nature to all hockey players at that level. The foot has to come down somewhere, and in this case it came down between the leg and tendon guard.

Now think about this for a moment... what would your first instinct be if you put your foot down and it didn't make it to the ice? To gently raise it back up and try again? Or to just pull as hard as you can to get it free?

Bottom line, I think you're seeing things that aren't there.

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I guess I'll be seeing you when the Mothership lands then.

If you can get that clip, that'd be great.

I have a pair of the Tuff-N-Lite socks. They ended up being a little too thick for me in the foot to my liking.

I don't like compression socks for the most part, either. The only one I liked was OxySox, because it had the loose toe and heel. I have a pair of Bauer Vapor socks and couldn't stand them - the foot is only about 4" in its normal state. I skate with Wigwam thin socks.

JR,

Have you tried the newest "Ultra Thin" version from Tuff-N-Lite? I had just the regular thin, which I felt were a little too thck, and recently switched the the ultra thin -- it was a noticable difference, and I like them a lot.

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I see the cut sock now as well.

I still don't believe it was intentional. He is looking at the boards the entire time to anticipate the impact with them. See if you can find someones tendon guard while looking the other way.

I do wish Karlsson a speedy recovery.

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It could happen; it's called "felony murder". Bad analogy.

A jury would probably not be told about prior acts, unless they are similar enough to be a "signature crime".

Man, I knew I was way out on thin ice (sorry) in picking up with this analogy, but am glad to get the insight, thanks.

The wierd part about the video is that he doesn't seem to be in a huge amount of pain until he pushed off. I know when I ruptured mine, it didn't even hurt - it just felt like my foot went through the floor and all of a sudden I couldn't push off my left leg. I actually drove 20 miles, shifting my truck with my heal. It almost seems like he had it partially lacerated and when he pushed off, then it fully snapped. My ortho said the partial's are the ones that really hurt.

From that image of Karlsson's scream through the photographer's glass, it looks to be significantly painful/shocking--this is before he goes down and then gets back up for that partial push on his injured leg. Maybe it was the weirdness of the feeling? I've never had an injury like this, but I distinctly remember an interview with Anthony Hopkins where he describes rupturing his achilles while filming Zorro, and he said it snapped and then rolled up inside his leg like a measuring tape (something like that). Now, it can't have felt exactly like that for Karlsson, since he didn't have a full rupture, but hearing that description just made me realize how much tension is there. I imagine it felt odd, but at least it looks like it felt incredibly painful, both before he goes down on the ice and as he's lying on his side, clutching his ankle.

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While much more severe, this controversy reminds me of the most recent Ndamukong Suh alleged "dirty play" from last year's Lions Thanksgiving game. While it would have been very difficult to accuratly kick Matt Schaub in the gonads while falling down and facing the other direction, Suh's reputation preceeded him and he was scrutinized (and ultimately fined). Cooke is getting the same treatment from the media and fans based on his history.

I'm a Detroiter, but not necessarily a Suh fan by the way.

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i just wanted karlsson to stay down - i mean you have other players that lay on the ice for minutes when minor stuff happens and then for some reason even though he knew something bad happened he decided "nope, i'm gonna walk on it" - thats almost as bad as someone breaking their ankle and having their foot facing the wrong way and still trying to walk on it.. it's like fingernails on a chalkboard for me

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There was absolutely no slew footing motion here. You're seeing things. This play is very common in todays game. You could find countless replays of this exact play in every single NHL game. It is extremely common to drive somebody into the boards with your knee pushing up against the guys backside. Like Aaron Ward said, that play is second nature to all hockey players at that level. The foot has to come down somewhere, and in this case it came down between the leg and tendon guard.

Now think about this for a moment... what would your first instinct be if you put your foot down and it didn't make it to the ice? To gently raise it back up and try again? Or to just pull as hard as you can to get it free?

Bottom line, I think you're seeing things that aren't there.

You can't pin a guy when you are that far away from the boards. The motion is up and forward while they are both well away from the boards. Cooke knew he couldn't drive through the torso or he would get a boarding call, so he had to prevent Karlsson from bracing his lower body. The way you prevent someone from doing that is to raise their center of gravity. By knocking the right leg out, Karlsson would have to come up to maintain his balance and wouldn't be able to resist Cooke checking him into the boards.

So yes, Cooke is trying to slew foot Karlsson to make up for the fact that he couldn't drive through him to pin him. karlsson was stopping and his feet were perpendicular to the boards while still in the faceoff circle. Rather than make an effort to play the puck, Cooke chose to try and line Karlsson up for a hit. When he realized that Karlsson was going to put his body in a position that wouldn't allow him to drive through the body, Cooke tried to take out the right leg so he could deliver a hit. The end result was Cooke's foot being off the ice. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the cut itself, I don't see anything that implies he was trying to injure Karlsson.

Either way, it was still interference. The puck was still five feet away when Cooke initiated contact from behind.

While much more severe, this controversy reminds me of the most recent Ndamukong Suh alleged "dirty play" from last year's Lions Thanksgiving game. While it would have been very difficult to accuratly kick Matt Schaub in the gonads while falling down and facing the other direction, Suh's reputation preceeded him and he was scrutinized (and ultimately fined). Cooke is getting the same treatment from the media and fans based on his history.

I'm a Detroiter, but not necessarily a Suh fan by the way.

Like I said, I don't think there was an intent to cut Karlsson. I do think there was an intent to deliver a hit, despite not being in the proper position to do so, and the injury is a result of trying to do what he could to deliver a hit that would not result in suspension.

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just finished reading this thread(and searching for socks to buy online) when I came across this on facebook. ughhhh

For those asking on Mattias Tedenby, I'm trying to get an update. He was cut in the face with a skate tonight in Albany's game at Adirondack.

Per the Saratogian: Tedenby was going to net and Adirondack defenseman lost his balance and his skate came up and struck Tedenby in face.

Pete Doherty of Albany Times Union said Chris Lamoriello said Tedenby was taken to hospital in Glen Falls. Cut was to face, but not neck.

Apparently, it was a deep cut, but according to Doherty (Albany Times Union), that was all the info Albany Devils/Chris Lamoriello provided. -Per TG.

Reports are saying 80 plus stitches to the face.

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this question is for those of you that have worked with pro teams: are pro sharpenings really that much sharper than the average beer leaguer? I realize that pros can get their skates sharpened much more than us regular folks but it seems like even the slightest grazing of a skate blade causes pretty serious lacerations at the pro level which leads me to believe their edges are scary sharp.

I think people take for granted how sharp skates are in general. I severed the extensor tendon in my left thumb two years ago. I was talking to my son while taking my stuff out of the bag to dry. Skate guards got hung up on the loop portion of the velro top of the interior skate pocket. While looking at my son, I gave the skate a tug with my right, it popped free of the guard and hit my free hand that I was moving towards the skate. 1/2" long cut to the bone, and when I rinsed off all the blood I could see the ends of the tendon, and couldn't move my thumb. Scary stuff.

This will be a hot button issue for a couple of weeks then be forgotten about/back burnered when someone else gets injured in another freaky way.(think the neck guard push after the Zednek incident). I'm surprised more teams haven't taken the initiave to mandate at least the inner kevlar socks. IIRC, wasn't there an EQM or manufacurer that was putting a Kevlar panel on the inside back thigh of pro pants?

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There you go, Don Cherry said it. We should all tape around the tendon guard now. :wink:

Edit : CBC Hotstove presented the argument for protective Kevlar socks and referred to the Rangers requiring backhand padding on gloves.

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I love how he mentions Markov in this. Markov does tape his tendon guard. Was it Markov's achilles that got cut, by the way? I can't find any exact account of his injury. Everything I've read just says "a tendon in his foot."

The achilles could get cut even above a taped tendon guard, right? It seems to extend higher than a lot of guards out there.

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Having a highly mobile tendon guard tucked under the sock would be better. Combined of course, with a cut resistant sock like JR suggested. Even with the tendon guard though, it would be difficult to stop a downward force like that.

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Curious, is the mako tendon guard flexible enough that it could be taped to the leg as they did in the old days, without loss of flexibility?

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Chadd, was that a ruptured/completely lacerated Achilles? It's a (potentially) incredibly debilitating injury, particularly in the past. Just crushes your explosiveness if you're a high-end athlete; if you're not, many struggle to regain reasonable function of the affected limb. Relatively modern advances in surgical therapy have revolutionized management, but it's still a long road back, particularly for someone who's not a world-class athlete/has access to the best orthopaedists in the world.

So many professionals have suffered Achilles injuries and have never been the same. Vinny Testaverde, Terrell Suggs, Takeo Spikes, Elton Brand, Ryan Howard, and David Beckham, right off the top of my head. Not to mention Achilles himself, I guess. Now, many of those guys have been hurt later in their careers (and have other reasons for their decline), but it certainly doesn't help matters. Teemu - who suffered an 80% laceration his in his second year, if I recall correctly - is still the exception rather than the rule. All the best to Karlsson.

Add Rueben Mayes, his career was plagued by achilles issues.

I agree with the TSN & NBC commentators, I think it was a hit and pin gone wrong. In real time they're past the circle heading into the corner and basically get there at the same time as the puck. Cooke is working on positioning his body for a hit & pin as they get close to the boards and the puck comes around the corner towards them. He drives his left knee forward and upwards trying to get it between Karlsonns legs and his body up against Karlsson's. Karlsson is moving left and the players seperate slightly, which causes Cooke's left leg to come across the back of Karlsson's pants, instead of in between his legs. This opens up Cookes' hips leaving him with little leverage and off balance as he applies pressure by driving/extending with his right leg. As Cooke brings his left leg down to regain balance and leverage his skate digs into Karlsson's calf.

Look at the picture on this web page:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/13/uh-oh-sens-karlsson-needs-help-off-ice/

Now look at this picture from USA Hockey "Checking the Right Way for Youth Hockey" on page 68, PINNING:

http://www.usahockey.com/uploadedFiles/USAHockey/Menu_Coaches/Menu_Coaching_Materials/Menu_Checking_materials/Checking%20Manual_FINAL.pdf

I've taught this skill to my son's Peewee team for the last couple of years and while I haven't seen anything that led to a devastating injury. Poor timing and or technique often leads to the player initiating the pin missing the gap between the legs resulting in his hips being opened up and the leg like Cooke's winding up across the back of the player being pinned. This leaves the pinning player with little leverage, off balance and with a poor pin.

One picture shows the result of proper timing and technique. The other the end result of improper technique/timing, which led to a devastating accidental injury.

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jordan staal also had a tendon cut in his foot when subban stepped on top of his skate accidentally - i would assume skate tongues are cut resistant now?

Ack, that hurts to watch. I wasn't aware of that incident.

gonchar is currently doing it so i would say yes - too bad it didnt rub off on karlsson

That would be a big change. Other pros have done it though. Had it happened to Gonchar, I'm not convinced he'd have fared much better. The way Cooke's skate came down against Karlsson's leg just above the tendon guard, it could have gotten caught on the ridge where there's a little space between Gonchar's tendon guard and his sock, and up that high, maybe it would still sink in and cut laterally as it slid past.

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yeah, i cant say that taping the tendon guards would have definitely prevented it - but i think reduces the chance of it happening by a little bit.

I agree. I could see it helping significantly, but a kevlar layer seems safer, let alone much more practical, since the adjustment to it wouldn't be nearly as great everyone could do it.

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But of course, it specifically would have to be the Mako skate since it's the only one with the flexible tendon guard. I completely understand why you wouldn't do it with a standard skate.

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