Bauer Supreme 1S vs. VH Footwear

[demmer12 5]

I'm finally ready to upgrade my Bauer One75s. After a couple visits to my LHS over the last several months, my favorite skate is the Bauer Supreme 1S (which I just tried earlier tonight). At that price point, VH Footwear is my other contender.

 

As we all know, fit is what matters most. The 1S feels great unbaked, and I imagine that baking with the Speed Plate will make it feel even better. And, I'm sure I can find from VH a fit at least as good as the 1S.

 

What would sway you in favor of the VH over the 1S (or your favorite top-of-the-line skate)?

 

Thanks!

[mc88 160]

To be short:

 

1S:

- Super stiff boot

- Retail fit (might have some to a lot of negative space in certain areas, ie: toecap)

- Will most likely have great durability over the long haul (still way too early to tell)

- Visually appealing with clean design choices

- Curv composite with built-in lace locks

- Warranty up to one year within the U.S.

 

VH:

- Semi-stiff boot

- Custom fit (will fit like a ski boot with very little negative space)

- Has good durability with the new toecap design

- Emphasis on function over visual appeal (they're getting better, but it's still a bland looking boot)

- Traditional eyelets

- Warranty up to 6 months within Canada only (you will pay shipping cost to manufacturer regardless)

 

I'd pick VH over the 1S for the simple fact that it fits like a ski boot. I don't like a lot of negative space, and these skates wrap really, really well. With that said, your one75 boots will be a lot softer than the 1S, and you MAY not like it over the long haul. My recommendation would be to wear the 1S boot in store for at least an hour and walk around. If, after an hour, your feet are happy and you are happy, then go with the 1S.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

You won't find a better fit than VH. Being custom there's nothing retail that will fit as well. 

 

The only reason I'd go Bauer at the same price point is... Possibly durability? I mean, no issues wih my VH and obviously big brands aren't immune from problems either, but that's really the only good reason I can think of, if it's the same price.

[demmer12 5]

Thanks for your thoughts, @mc88 and @OptimusReim. The 1S is $829 (+ ~7% tax) at my LHS, while the VH is $899 (senior boot, Step Steel). I don't know what the VH will be after tax and shipping.

[Cosmic 178]

VH is a one piece skate, also (monocoque). 1S is 2 piece skate. The theory is that a 1 piece will transfer weight better and give a better feel for the ice (I think).

[fcalog 58]

4 hours ago, Cosmic said:

VH is a one piece skate, also (monocoque). 1S is 2 piece skate. The theory is that a 1 piece will transfer weight better and give a better feel for the ice (I think).

A stiffer boot will transfer energy and movement quicker than a softer skate. How one can quantify it, to me, is another question given the variability of player skating skills.

[Yerksy 6]

10 hours ago, demmer12 said:

Thanks for your thoughts, @mc88 and @OptimusReim. The 1S is $829 (+ ~7% tax) at my LHS, while the VH is $899 (senior boot, Step Steel). I don't know what the VH will be after tax and shipping.

your LHL must be running a pretty awesome deal on the 1S.  I can't find it anywhere for less than $949.99.  

 

Ultimately boot shape and your foot profile would determine what would be a better investment in the long run.  VH skates fit a lot tighter to the foot but a lot of people I've come across think that's what they want until they get into them, then they aren't so sure.  The retail 1S is a super stiff skate and the heel and ankle seem roomier than the Supremes ever have been before.  If the shape is right for your foot, I'd recommend looking into the 190s too if you want a slightly softer boot with traditional lacing.  There's no substitute for going in to your shop and being fit by someone who does it for a living!

[demmer12 5]

@Yerksy, the S190 on my left foot felt about the same as the 1S on my right, though I didn't wear the S190 quite as long. I was at the LHS for about 75 minutes before closing. Fit being equal between the two, I'd go with the 1S. The lacing seemed nice, 37.5 liner, LS4 runners tip that scale for me.

 

There is one LHS in Illinois about 45 minutes away that could measure me for VH.

[Cosmic 178]

1 hour ago, fcalog said:

A stiffer boot will transfer energy and movement quicker than a softer skate. How one can quantify it, to me, is another question given the variability of player skating skills.

 

Fair enough. For me, it's hard to imagine being in a 2 piece, after having been in a one piece for a couple years (Mako 1 and now Mako 2). I can see going to another 1 piece when it goes on clearance (CCM Super Tacks, and whatever and whenever Bauer catches up with a monocoque), but cannot see going backward to a 2 piece such as an Bauer skate that is presently available. 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

Stiffer is definitely not always better though.

[Zorlac 22]

Can anyone confirm that the 1S skate is STIFFER than the MX3 was? I know the quarter package material has changed, but can't find any info on this.

[Jordan 13]

My son just switched from MX3's to the VH's ....he absolutely loves the VH skates...turns and acceleration are immediately better. Perfect comfort and fit!!!! 

[60PlusWinger 82]

If the 1s skate fits great out of the box and unbaked this shouldn't even be a debate. I wear custom skates, I order a pair every year and it's because I can't fit into retail skates but if I could I wouldnt bother. 

 

Forget E tall this VH custom skate babble and 2 piece boot vs 1 piece boot energy transfer crap. I can put a top of the line one piece skate on a D level beer leaguer and his "energy transfer" isn't going to be any better. I don't even think there's a question of skate quality regarding a Bauer 1S vs  pair of VH custom. Don't fix something that isn't broken and don't get wrapped up into overthinking something that doesn't need to be complicated. 

 

This should have ended with oh the 1S fits great from the #1 skate manufacturer on the entire world? Yea you should try out VH... Umm

[60PlusWinger 82]

And no the 1S is not any stiffer than the MX3. They're made from the same material, same thickness. Custom gets stiffer per request on the order from a 1-4 scale (2 being stock) and its added curve composite that makes it stiffer. 

[syinx 139]

20 hours ago, 60PlusWinger said:

If the 1s skate fits great out of the box and unbaked this shouldn't even be a debate. I wear custom skates, I order a pair every year and it's because I can't fit into retail skates but if I could I wouldnt bother. 

 

Forget E tall this VH custom skate babble and 2 piece boot vs 1 piece boot energy transfer crap. I can put a top of the line one piece skate on a D level beer leaguer and his "energy transfer" isn't going to be any better. I don't even think there's a question of skate quality regarding a Bauer 1S vs  pair of VH custom. Don't fix something that isn't broken and don't get wrapped up into overthinking something that doesn't need to be complicated. 

 

This should have ended with oh the 1S fits great from the #1 skate manufacturer on the entire world? Yea you should try out VH... Umm

 

Energy transfer doesn't just suddenly stop existing because the player variable changes.  Whether it's an NHL player or a D level beer league player, the transfer of his stride energy through the skate isn't dependent on technique.  On a physics level, the less energy loss due to material flexion or compression, the more energy in the output end of the equation.  Beyond the hard science (since it's hellishly clear you're not looking for empirical evidence here), everyone can benefit from better equipment, it's only the the balance between actual improvement vs monetary input that comes into play at this point, which is why a fair amount of us don't pay top dollar for the latest and greatest stick - the money spent isn't worth the perceived improvement.

 

Now, when it comes to the fact that we are talking about top-of-the-line skates, the money argument is out the window.  Now it's purely performance.  If the "1S fits great" argument should have been the end of all of this (and that's not even touching the statement about Bauer being the "#1 skate manufacturer"), then we wouldn't have an entire host of NHL players moving over the the VH skates - the very players whose ability to discern equipment performance you so highly tout.  I myself used to be in a Supreme skate, fitted by a reputable, experienced fitter.  And as I moved onto a monocoque skate like the Mako, I could notice the immediate performance difference.  There is a biomechanical component to skate design that, while present in Bauer and CCM's offerings, was a heavy focus in VH and the Easton Mako's foundation.  I'm not saying the big companies don't have access to the same research, but they sure as hell haven't embraced it and implemented it the same way as VH/Easton have (though with the new CCM Tacks being monocoque in design, I'm hopeful).

 

At the end of the day, I still firmly believe that the VH and Mako skates produce better performance.  Do the VHs have Bauer or CCM's "finish"?  No.  But the VH skates are still of exceptional quality and are built off of a different performance standpoint than skates offered by Bauer.  The skates emphasize improving and building on the science behind the skating movement.  It's a better "skater's skate".  And its performance shortcomings (protectiveness, stiffness, etc.) compared to bigger-name competitors can be addressed.

 

TL;DR Go with the VH skate.  It's designed from the ground up for skating.  As another member of this forum once said, the current hockey market is more about evolution than revolution, and VH are attempting revolution in the right way.

[flip12 699]

Playing Devil's Advocate for a bit: 

We also must consider the NHLers who try VH, even for years (I'm throwing in MLX as well and looking at Mark Stuart specifically) and go back to Bauer or CCM. Even within that pool of people who can have whatever they want and whose well-being is 100% correlated with their equipment's provision of comfort and performance, there are those that don't stick with the speed skate inspired boots. Whether it is because they miss the feeling of skates like they're more used to from growing up in them or what, why they don't stick with the speed skate inspired boots is a mystery. Still, from their example it is at least clear enough that the VH/Mako skate isn't for them. Maybe that will change now when CCM releases their own Me2 in the category, perhaps with Bauer to follow in a year or so. I'm very keen to hear how people compare the new Super Tacks to the VH/Mako. It'll be interesting as we watch the evolution catch up with the revolution a bit and see how they mingle.

[syinx 139]

2 hours ago, flip12 said:

Playing Devil's Advocate for a bit: 

We also must consider the NHLers who try VH, even for years (I'm throwing in MLX as well and looking at Mark Stuart specifically) and go back to Bauer or CCM. Even within that pool of people who can have whatever they want and whose well-being is 100% correlated with their equipment's provision of comfort and performance, there are those that don't stick with the speed skate inspired boots. Whether it is because they miss the feeling of skates like they're more used to from growing up in them or what, why they don't stick with the speed skate inspired boots is a mystery. Still, from their example it is at least clear enough that the VH/Mako skate isn't for them. Maybe that will change now when CCM releases their own Me2 in the category, perhaps with Bauer to follow in a year or so. I'm very keen to hear how people compare the new Super Tacks to the VH/Mako. It'll be interesting as we watch the evolution catch up with the revolution a bit and see how they mingle.

 

Perhaps you're right.  I was speaking to a couple roller guys in the city (including the inventor of the Wizard roller chassis) and there was definitely a sentiment that hockey skates are not a "skater's skate".  There is a sacrifice away from the ideal biomechanical skating technique in order to provide protection and to accommodate the relics of skate technology (such as the plastic skate holder and steel) that the hockey market has brought into their iteration of the skate.  Sometimes these apparent drawbacks of a traditional hockey skate are "necessary evils" in order to let us play the sport the way we do now.

 

Progress should not cease, and I am excited for a future where skates promote and improve upon the ideal skating stride.  The game can only get faster!

[flip12 699]

3 hours ago, syinx said:

 

... and there was definitely a sentiment that hockey skates are not a "skater's skate".

 

I agree with that in general, and I think VH does approach that ideal a bit, compared to the basic skates of today, Vapors and Supremes. I simply haven't skated in enough of today's boots to make more than a rough guess comparison though. I'd love to fix that.

 

I'd also love to try VH in the right size. I tried some MLX I got for a good deal of eBay, only, they're at least a size too big, even though I went with the advice from MLX, measuring my feet out in CM from heel to toe but there's way too much length and volume. Still, I could tell there's a strong upside to the SVH composite shell recipe. I just couldn't get the skate to respond as naturally as my good old classic Grafs. The upside I felt is the energy transfer you were describing. To me it was definitely noticeable, even when the skates weren't baked well to my feet. The downside of the energy transfer/stiffness is the "too strong for my taste problem." I wanted more flex from the skate because it didn't do what I thought it would so I had to physically work around it instead.

 

On the whole, I think you and I see the whole development from similar perspectives :)

[demmer12 5]

Thanks, everyone, for the discussion. I ordered a pair of VH skates on Sat. I should have them in about 2 weeks.

[bubaloo 6]

Although the Op has gone with the vh skates, for others interested I have the 1s and had my first skate today and I just say these are the best skates I have ever owned. The fit, protection, performance and features like the t lock, and tongue and heel guard Inserts are excellent. The speed plate makes ur foot feel perfectly fitted to the bottom of the skate. Well worth the money in my opinion as long as they are durable 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

3 hours ago, bubaloo said:

Although the Op has gone with the vh skates, for others interested I have the 1s and had my first skate today and I just say these are the best skates I have ever owned. The fit, protection, performance and features like the t lock, and tongue and heel guard Inserts are excellent. The speed plate makes ur foot feel perfectly fitted to the bottom of the skate. Well worth the money in my opinion as long as they are durable 

All of which is irrelevant if they don't fit OP ;)