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scottswenson2

Flex in Youth Skate

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Hockey dad here of an 8 year old. When I grew up, dad would always buy the top of line Super Tacks, Bauer 100's etc. Back then we had choice of two or three levels. The higher levels usually meant more leather and hence better fit and flex. Today when I walk into a store, I am dumbfounded by the number of choices - even within a brand and line. Admittedly, I am also suffering from a bit of sticker shock - mind you, I can and don't mind spending money on expensive equipment where I think you get something back. The problem I see in skates is that I don't think kids my son's age should be skating in top of the line skates. They appear to be to stiff for your average 50 lb. kid. Too often when working with kids I see that they can't get enough flex in the skate to keep the whole edge on the ice - the heel tends to fly up or they don't really get enough bend in the leg. When you walk into the store, they just want to sell you the top of line stuff and honestly I don't blame the salesguys - most believe they are selling you the best product. Same stuff happens in the ski industry with racing boots and top of the line skis being to stiff for almost all recreational skiers. For the past few years I have been putting my son on the cheapest Supremes and they seemed to be fine. Once I did find that the initial quality of these skates to be suspect as the blades were actually warped. Nothing a vice couldn't fix. I had one skating coach (ex pro) tell me I was doing the right thing. I've had others roll their eyes when they see the cheapo skates. Why roll-over the tongue and not crank down on the laces if the skate is ultra stiff? I guess I am bit insecure and looking for some affirmation that my rationale is correct or maybe someone can tell me if they measure flex levels in skates (ala sticks). I am struggling to buy the best skate for a 50 lb kid right now. He has a Supreme shaped foot but I am not opposed to other mid to wide brands / lines (i.e. Grafs etc.). So much has been done in stick flex technology yet nothing in skate. 

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If you are looking for affirmation you have found it right here, you are doing the right thing.  I don't know if I would go with the cheapest skate but I would also not go top of the line, something in the mid range.  For reference, my son has always worn Ribcores, both Reebok and CCM.  The Ribcore is known to not be as stiff of a skate and it happens to fit his foot well.  I always looked for something in a mid range skate, around the $150 price point which today would be a CCM Ribcore 44k.  As he's gotten older and is now in his teens the quality of the skate he wears has increased and now he wears the Ribcore Platinum which is a cross between a 46K and 48K and is only found at certain retailers.

 

When you go to buy your son's next skates, if it were me, I would look at a bunch of different skates in that $150 price point and try them on to see which one fits his foot the best.  I'm predisposed to the Big 2 manufacturers so I would try on the CCM and Bauer lines.  Between 6 different skates there should be one of them that fits him well.  There are also other brands out there, from Easton to Graf, and you could go that route, just saying that I would simplify the selection to 6 so as not to overwhelm the kid too much.

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Thanks for the response. Very helpful. I should have also mentioned my son has very small feet. So he was in Youth sizes till this year. In Youth we were limited to the entry level and something that resembled a steel boot. Now we have more options.

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I would not be compelled to buy stiff skates for a child. They have ability to develop control of their joints and build strength very rapidly. Putting them in "casts" would be a child abuse. Lots of padding, conforming foot bed, arch support., ankle support.... all that is needed for someone who has completed their physical development and who possibly recovers from some feet injuries. Remember, nature has intended us to develop barefooted. Boot needs to be properly fitted. with no to little empty space, with a thin sock (no thicker socks, no stuffing the toe-box with foam).... This should be the primary factor in buying skates for child or an adult alike. Worrying about if it is top of the line or not, is a lesser concern. Once you get skates for an 8 years old that properly fit, you automatically do not need replaceable runners as he is only 50Lb and will outgrow the skates before they sharpened 10 times. The skates also do not need to be supper durable as they will not be in use long enough to see any break up. Your job as a parent is to enable your kid to learn the sportsmanship, value of the athleticism, and ability to be a team player. 

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Yep, that's the same approach I took with my kids.  My 12 year old has just started moving into upper level junior skates the past year or two... he's average size, so he likely has another 2 years in junior sizes if I'm lucky.  I always found the youth and junior skates to be too stiff for his weight thus opted for mid-pricepoint.  Limiting forward flex at those developmental ages by putting them in a stiff boot is just asking for skating mechanics issues down the road.  

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Yep, agree.  Between my son and niece and nephew, the family has opted for mostly mid pricepoint/stiffness skates.  My nephew just turned 13 and this past season was really his first time in a high end skate, and he is playing AAA bantam hockey in a very competitive league.  The whole family is known for their skating ability and mechanics at their given ages.  I chalk much of that up to great "skate only" coaching and appropriate boot flex.

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As others have said, softer skates are the best approach for young skaters.  You definitely don't want the cheapest in the line though for a hockey skate.  Something like a Supreme 140 is meant for pleasure skating, not hockey.  As for determining what model in the line to buy, as a starting point I suggest looking at the lowest model that includes a company's top of the line holder.  In the case of Supremes, that's the 160.  This price point will get you a boot that is fit for hockey, but still relatively soft.

 

Just my 2¢. 

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I would not discount Supreme 140 for 8 years old hockey. Weight to strength to stiffness ratio of Supreme 140 is probably more hockey suitable than  Supreme 190 for afults. One additional thing to look for is the lace bite. That can be an oversight in the cheaper skates aven thought everything else looks good. For a budget buy, I would try on a pair of CCM RBZ 70 Junior. They appear to be adequately built for junior weight class, have lace bite protection, anatomical fit, and SpeedBlade-4.0 holders which is pretty sweet. They also look nice and available for $80 from HockeyMonkey.

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Your observation is spot on, OP.  Kids skates are really (unnecessarily, if you ask me) stiff, and parents buying "the best" skates for younger players are probably doing them a disservice until they have developed their skating fundamentals.  (I feel similarly about sticks, too.)  With that said, if you are near a good skate shop, I'd recommend looking at the Grafs.  If you're feeling super ambitious & know your player's Bauer sizing, you might want to look for some new old stock Flexlites.  I thought those were really great for younger kids.

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TP is right. Supreme are nice skates and I would pick any Supremes in low to mid range.

Dont afraid to buy $80 skates at all. They are good.

140 are hockey skates and they are pretty good enough IMHO for new player.

I learn as well that you don't want young guy in too stiff skates.

For my younger I am not afraid to buy low level skates without any concerns.

 

Let me ask here (so I dont need to open a new topic) regarding AAA 11yo player( 102lbs,4.11"). His skates are apparently small so we need to chose new Supremes ASAP so he has time to break them before upcoming summer tournament, elite camps and finally tryouts.

Options are limited to:

S170 with S180 tongue and liner -$200

S180 with S190 tongue and outsole - $300
One.9 - $300

 

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One.9 is a very still skate. Stiffer than top of the lines NXG/MX3. For the last few generations of Supremes 2nd top-most skate was stiffer than the top-most ones. One100 were tanks, so as one.9 and 190.

he skated fine in these but definitely got accustomed to the stiffness so lower models won't even work now.

i always bought these for my son because of Alive composite - it is so pliable that I was always able to ensure great heel lock by compressing the boot after baking.

many parents don't pay attention to the heel lock and their kids end up with giant haglunds by the age 12!

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S180, 180, One.8 and up all composite.

One.8 apparently least expensive composite skates - $200 only.

We are growing from child hockey to competitive so I have no idea how stiff his new skates must be, taking in consideration his 100+lbs and many years of skating in softer skates.

 

Just a general remark - I am so sad there is no way to try skates and return. Understand it somehow, but how would you know if skates are good enough or not until you try them on ice...

Fitting in the store is not the same as skating on the ice...

 

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I got my daughters Easton Mako M8's this summer and they love them so far. My 8 year old especially likes them. She was skating in Reebok 12k skates and she liked them but they wouldn't let her really get a good full stride. It was her first year of hockey so I didn't know how she was going to like it so I didn't go crazy buying her skates. She was hooked and ended up being really good according to her coaches. I know very little about hockey but I did some looking around and thought the idea of the Mako skates seemed sound.  We ended up getting them at Total hockey for  $149, a pretty good deal I thought. She had start a camp with her old skates then switched halfway to the M8's. She was immediately faster and her cross overs improved a lot. She had no break in at all with them, we had them baked at the store.  So that helped. The first day with them she did the 2 hrs camp, an hour of skating, then asked to stay for open skate.. No issues at all. In fact she liked them so much she wanted a size bigger for when she out grows these. My older daughter,11, has always been a pretty strong skater as well and these helped her as well. She noticed right away how light they felt and how the skate felt smaller when she was skating. Not quite so clunky as her old skates, Easton EQ40's.  She did have some foot pain but we switched to superfeet and they went away. Hope this wasn't to long winded.

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On 7/14/2016 at 11:00 AM, scottswenson2 said:

Hockey dad here of an 8 year old. When I grew up, dad would always buy the top of line Super Tacks, Bauer 100's etc. Back then we had choice of two or three levels. The higher levels usually meant more leather and hence better fit and flex. Today when I walk into a store, I am dumbfounded by the number of choices - even within a brand and line. Admittedly, I am also suffering from a bit of sticker shock - mind you, I can and don't mind spending money on expensive equipment where I think you get something back. The problem I see in skates is that I don't think kids my son's age should be skating in top of the line skates. They appear to be to stiff for your average 50 lb. kid. Too often when working with kids I see that they can't get enough flex in the skate to keep the whole edge on the ice - the heel tends to fly up or they don't really get enough bend in the leg. When you walk into the store, they just want to sell you the top of line stuff and honestly I don't blame the salesguys - most believe they are selling you the best product. Same stuff happens in the ski industry with racing boots and top of the line skis being to stiff for almost all recreational skiers. For the past few years I have been putting my son on the cheapest Supremes and they seemed to be fine. Once I did find that the initial quality of these skates to be suspect as the blades were actually warped. Nothing a vice couldn't fix. I had one skating coach (ex pro) tell me I was doing the right thing. I've had others roll their eyes when they see the cheapo skates. Why roll-over the tongue and not crank down on the laces if the skate is ultra stiff? I guess I am bit insecure and looking for some affirmation that my rationale is correct or maybe someone can tell me if they measure flex levels in skates (ala sticks). I am struggling to buy the best skate for a 50 lb kid right now. He has a Supreme shaped foot but I am not opposed to other mid to wide brands / lines (i.e. Grafs etc.). So much has been done in stick flex technology yet nothing in skate. 

You are going to find a lot of people that believe in the need for a skate to flex on this site. Top end boots are way too stiff for most adults and especially for kids.

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Update: after custom fitting we ended with S180 Supremes with some S190 upgrades. Heat molded and sharpened with fav 7/16.

MX3 were good priced but he did not like them.

New ultratacks are great but...expensive + makes no sense on constantly growing feet.

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Did you on this thread notice how much stiffer the bauer top skate 1x/s/n was than the ones immediately below it?

my older x100 (yeah I'm in kids skates) are wayyy stiffer than the s190/x900 I saw at the store the other day. Makes me a little leery of getting one of those given i need the stiffer boot due to my relative size.  

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