Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

VegasHockey

Bauer MX3 Fusion blade replacement with LS4?

Recommended Posts

I recently purchased a pair of the Bauer MX3 skates. I haven't skated in 17 years since I was playing in the majors before since I was hurt and my career was cut short. Recently I received medical clearance to start playing again YAY! However, it blows my mind how hardware has changed, some for the better and some for the worse. The current generation of skates seems to take FOREVER to break in. Sticks also have changed dramatically and are outrageously priced. I still prefer to use my old carbon fibre Easton T-Flex. LOL

 

Anyway, the one main problem I have is with the Bauer MX3 skates steel. Twice now the steel has failed. The first time the tooth broke where it fits into the TUUK and another time a slapshot broke it right I the middle. Both times I didn't have an opportunity to use my warranty and has the blades replaced on site at the pro shop in the rink. The staff there said the Fusion blades are junk and known to have major problems and recommended the LS2/3. I did some research and it seems the LS4 is the newest steel that fits my skate blade holder. My skates are only 60 days old so I am sure you can see why I am so frustrated. 

 

So, my question is. Who has replaced their Fusion steel with LS4? Did you like it more or less? What are the pros and cons? Do they weight more? Have longer blade life blade life? I would love to hear any stories or information. 

 

I tried to do a search on the forum but it came up empty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have ls4 on my 1s skates and love them, but be careful and make sure you get the NEWER generation ls4, the older ones has some issues and recalls and broke easily, the new generation is good to go though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went from fusion to ls3 in my apx2's, they have stood up to a lot of abuse without any issues. The switch was recommended to me from a guy who owned a maximum edge shop and his recommendation came from all of his experience of seeing many skates pass thru his shop (ie don't use fusion or ls4). My son (MX3's) is still on fusions and is happy to stay there but he weighs less than 150 when dripping wet so he doesn't put a load of stress on the blade. 

Ls4 is a taller steel and in theory is more durable (at least the 2nd generation is meant to be). However, besides the recommendation I received, a good reference is the Penguins skate profile that was recently posted in this forum, not one of the team is on ls4, all are on ls3 or ls2. imho they know a damn sight more about this stuff than us mere mortals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people take equipment managers' opinions as gospel way too often.

 

And as far as your last line, I wouldn't say that either.  There are a number of factors why EQMs choose some things over others.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LS4 is wider, which puts you a little higher off the ice to give you a better lean angle.  It's a harder steel which will give you better bite and hold edges longer (theoretically).  Both of those tings make it heavier.  Of course that's all relative because you're talking about steel, it's a fractional amount.

 

I wore out my Fusion steel on my MX3's and replaced them with LS4 gen2.  They are still really light, and I find the edge is stronger, especially after a few skates, and does indeed last longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LS4 is good quality steel, however many skaters hate the stock radius and bulk on toes and heels, and the weight.  It's going to feel and skate weird at first. I can't even tell you how many want me to grind down the toes and heel and shorten the working radius. I suggest plain ol LS2's, same shape as the fusions, not super heavy, yet durable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought my son brand new 1s a few weeks back, hopefully the L4 is 2 gen and I'm fully expecting to rip the benefits of having the harder steel but so far it was an odd experience - I had the blades profiled and sharpened @ 9/16. After 2 light skates one edge got completely rolled - skate guard were worn to/from rink, not stepping onto any plastic or hitting the net - totally unexpected and weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SolarWind said:

I bought my son brand new 1s a few weeks back, hopefully the L4 is 2 gen and I'm fully expecting to rip the benefits of having the harder steel but so far it was an odd experience - I had the blades profiled and sharpened @ 9/16. After 2 light skates one edge got completely rolled - skate guard were worn to/from rink, not stepping onto any plastic or hitting the net - totally unexpected and weird.

So many variables to your issue, most likely you hit something, likely another players skate in the corner of fighting for the puck.  Another overlooked issue is the skate sharpener could have overheated the steel while sharpening and that changes the tempering structure of the steel, weakening it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2016 at 1:51 AM, JR Boucicaut said:

I think people take equipment managers' opinions as gospel way too often.

 

And as far as your last line, I wouldn't say that either.  There are a number of factors why EQMs choose some things over others.

 

 

The last line wasn't really referring to the EQMs. Whilst they can have some influence over the skates and blades a player uses this is really the players choice as there is nothing more personal than the skates they have strapped to their feet.

If ls4 gave players a better edge (pardon the pun) then they would be on these blades. And it's not as if we are talking about something that is drastically different in shape or feel or is hard to test, a ls4 can be profiled to be exactly the same as a ls3 or ls2 and changed out in a matter of seconds to test. I would be willing to bet that every player on this list with Bauer skates would have tried a ls4 blade or at least considered it, and with input from the EQM, have decided there is no discernible difference or a specific reason to change. Given how much these players skate each year I think it says a lot that there are none using ls4's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Vet88 said:

 Given how much these players skate each year I think it says a lot that there are none using ls4's.

 

Okay, I'm getting more and more confused now.

 

 

The head of a skate shop I talked to the other day told me the LS2 and LS3 are made in Canada of higher quality steel than the Chinese made LS4. Why would the higher numbered, higher priced product be inferior?

 

I just purchased two pairs of LS4 runners for my son. They came in a 230mm size where as the LS3 do not. That's weird too. Bauer is really pissing me off. I wish I could just buy StepSteel V-Steel for the Edge holder and be done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Vet88 said:

The head of a skate shop I talked to the other day told me the LS2 and LS3 are made in Canada of higher quality steel than the Chinese made LS4. Why would the higher numbered, higher priced product be inferior?

 

Pretty sure number in LS4 is more of a indication of height of the runner.  From what I gather LS2 is the shortest, then LS3 is taller, and LS4 is tallest (talking the dimension from the edge to the holder). Bauer also profiles them differently. LS2 is 9' radius while LS3 and LS4 are 10'. Larger the radius, the better glide in general, but glide also depends on the hollow, and cooling properties of the blade.

 

LS4 would cost more because it looks pretty BA being mirror which also adds to the production cost. Perhaps to offset the increased cost due to more steel and mirror finish, Bauer went to Chinese steel? This could make sense. Using hype of "new" product during transition to a cheaper manufacturing. That is justt speculation. Do we even know for a fact that LS4 is made in China and LS2/3 made in North America?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

afaik ls3 and ls4 are the same height. ls4 is supposedly a better quality steel and has a polished mirror coating.

 

For some reason known to Bauer only, they start the junior range in ls3 at size 4, in ls4 at size 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

afaik ls3 and ls4 are the same height. ls4 is supposedly a better quality steel and has a polished mirror coating.

 

For some reason known to Bauer only, they start the junior range in ls3 at size 4, in ls4 at size 3.

 

I guess knowing how misleading Bauer's claims are, it is possible that when, in their promotional cack,  they said "Higher profile" they were implying "higher profile than LS2" (not LS3 as logic would guide us). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/19/2016 at 1:43 PM, jimmy said:

Another overlooked issue is the skate sharpener could have overheated the steel while sharpening and that changes the tempering structure of the steel, weakening it.

 

This should be easy to see. If overheated to that degree, the edge would be visibly discolored. Most likely it was just a defective runner or you did hit something, or perhaps, this is how it came off the sharpening.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2016 at 4:27 PM, Nicholas G said:

 

 

Anyway, the one main problem I have is with the Bauer MX3 skates steel. Twice now the steel has failed. The first time the tooth broke where it fits into the TUUK and another time a slapshot broke it right I the middle. Both times I didn't have an opportunity to use my warranty and has the blades replaced on site at the pro shop in the rink. The staff there said the Fusion blades are junk and known to have major problems and recommended the LS2/3. I did some research and it seems the LS4 is the newest steel that fits my skate blade holder...

 

As for Fusion blades, that is just sounds like a bad idea. A sandwich of steel and aluminum would not only be weak, it should also loose gliding ability as aluminum would act as heat-sink to the steel blade (skates glide by friction melting the ice under the edge)

 

One significant difference between Fusion blade and a steel blade would be the profile radius if you switch to LS3/4. It should be pretty transparent however to switch to LS2 as that is exact same profile and hight. If you love the way MX3 feels and skating is awesome, you might be happiest putting LS2 on them. LS3 is the same steel as LS2, but taller and larger profile, so there will be no gain. LS4 and LS3 are same profile and may or may not be taller than LS3. It is speculated that LS4 has better steel, but that may or may not be accurate. LS4 do have a mirror finish, but I am not sure if you are really after that. Mirror slows down cooling effect and in theory should make skates skate better, but this effect is probably unnoticeable. Perhaps next gen of LS runners will have a coating which would be more effective and look sleaker. If it was me, I would get LS2 runners and with saved money, get some suds for the lads to celebrate the medical clearance (congrats by the way, it is pleasure to see people to be happy, good luck)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cooling effect is only a part of why ice skates work and there is a lot of debate if it is a major or minor part. Fusions actually worked as well as any other blade so far produced for out right speed (so this negates your cooling argument), their problem is durability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The LS4 are not mirror finish.  They are not as grainy as other bauer steel and have a more smooth, slightly polished look but in no way mirror like Step Velocity for example.  If someone is pushing "cooling" I'm LMFAO.  I rank that with LS2.1 power steel hoax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Vet88 said:

The cooling effect is only a part of why ice skates work and there is a lot of debate if it is a major or minor part. Fusions actually worked as well as any other blade so far produced for out right speed (so this negates your cooling argument), their problem is durability.

 

Yes, in the amount of steel and aluminum in case of Fusion blades, the thermal factor is pretty insignificant... probably as insignificant as the height difference between LS3 and LS2 runners. The thermal effect however is pretty much out of debate if you look at T-Blades as they do glide noticeably better. Then again, they also have polished hollows and even if they do glide better, does it really matter, it is still pretty minor and comes with some drawbacks.The only reason I went with this, is because this is the minute advantages /disadvantages that we arguing over when we talk about LS4 vs LS2,,, or any other runner on the market for that matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, jimmy said:

The LS4 are not mirror finish.  They are not as grainy as other bauer steel and have a more smooth, slightly polished look but in no way mirror like Step Velocity for example.  If someone is pushing "cooling" I'm LMFAO.  I rank that with LS2.1 power steel hoax.

 

I am LMFAO at many discussions that go on here or other hockey forums when it come to the gear as well. It all comes to some minor improvement (if any)  or a marketing gimmick that people get in to debates over how it is better. Like again, adding a millimeter to LS3 runner over LS2... does that even worth mentioning? But watc the people will be (and have been) all over it. Same is with the thermal effect. It is there, and it is what makes the skates slide, Is there a lot of it to talk about when comparing one runner to another? But again, if you into nit picking, this can come to play just as a point to argue about.... As fo "mirror" finish on LS4, this is from the horses (Bauer) mouth directly... as well as most of the other BS that you can read in forums like that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what makes ice slippery. "A "quasi-fluid" or "water-like" layer exists on the surface of the ice and may be thicker or thinner depending on temperature. At about 250 degrees below zero Fahrenheit (-157 centigrade), the ice has a slippery layer one molecule thick. As the ice is warmed, the number of these slippery layers increases. This may help explain in part the difference between "fast ice" and "slow ice." As the number of layers increases, the players' skates need to "slosh" through more of these "water-like" layers; more friction occurs in these conditions, slowing the players down."

 

Any so-called "thermal effect" would slow the skate down, including those blades with the batteries that "melt" the ice. Skates do not need any gimmick to melt ice.  What makes skates faster is less drag and less friction achieved by adjusting the angle and amount of edge that sinks into the ice and lengthening the radius to disperse the weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

 

I am LMFAO at many discussions that go on here or other hockey forums when it come to the gear as well. It all comes to some minor improvement (if any)  or a marketing gimmick that people get in to debates over how it is better. 

 

Yes, but you are overlooking other ways a slightly superior product can make a difference.

 

I'm not looking at "better" runners for just on their ice performance, I'm looking for a larger interval between sharpening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ls4's, along with good guards that are used all the time, and a good sharpener should give you what you are looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bauer should just sell these skates without steel. Everyone replaces the fusion runner anyway. 

 

If if they market it right, having to buy additional steel could be a selling point, since you could then choose which aftermarket Bauer steel you wanted. And then highschool ifs could jag each other about "oh, you buy those skates with runner from the factory, what a bender."

 

No reason to give the consumer laces and holders for free either...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2016 at 5:33 PM, start_today said:

Bauer should just sell these skates without steel. Everyone replaces the fusion runner anyway. 

 

If if they market it right, having to buy additional steel could be a selling point, since you could then choose which aftermarket Bauer steel you wanted. And then highschool ifs could jag each other about "oh, you buy those skates with runner from the factory, what a bender."

 

No reason to give the consumer laces and holders for free either...

That was a huge selling  point of the Total One skate over the One95 at $599.99 -  The Fusion Runner,  Technical Tongue w/ Inserts ( which I am a huge fan of-  The laces did not dig into the tongue during forward  flexion and made for a smoother forward extension ) and  the Rolled Edges all for $799.99

 

Now we have come to see what a failure the Fusion was and dealers sitting on alot of it and Players preferring the felt tongue. 

 

Along comes the new S190 with LS3,  Std Felt Tongue at $729 available for 20% off anywhere and it's essentially the One95 with LS3 steel and some other minor tertiary improvements for $129 more before discount. 

 

What's the old saying?  The more things change...  The more things stay the same?

 

Back on topic-  You can't go wrong with LS3 and a good profile.  You will have difficulty fitting LS4 or LS3 steel into any holder that came with Fusion.  It was a a discussion we all had-  The holder was molded around the Fusion which was narrower than the LS3 or LS4 so,  it will be harder to fit those latter mentioned steel.  It can be  done,  but it will be difficult due to the minor difference in steel width.  Even harder if the holder is cold.  The MX3 is a killer skate with a steel upgrade-  Enjoy.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Zac911 said:

Along comes the new S190 with LS3,  Std Felt Tongue at $729 available for 20% off anywhere and it's essentially the One95 with LS3 steel and some other minor tertiary improvements for $129 more before discount. 

 

Well I hope this doesn't derail this thread too far but the S190 comes with same tongue as the APX2, the MX3's Free Flex Tendon Guard, the MX3's Hydra-Max 2 liner with high-frequency wear pads and Comfort Edge Wraps. Oh and they come with the new LS Edge holders with the LS3 steel if we're comparing ONE95 & S190.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...