Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

davekind

CCM hockey sticks P46

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, flip12 said:

I just wish it could be both / and, not either / or. Before the Kreps was around, I curved Modanos like that, with limited success in the durability department. It's great that that curve is out there, but that it means that classic patterns like Drury, Modano, etc. have to die is a shame.

I think the problem is that they aren't made available at the youth level, but the P28 is. Who is going to switch to the P91A or E7 at 17 when all they've used is the P28 since they were 7?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Jamarquan said:

I think the problem is that they aren't made available at the youth level, but the P28 is. Who is going to switch to the P91A or E7 at 17 when all they've used is the P28 since they were 7?

Definitely that's part of why those patterns won't get used anymore. The question about what's available at youth level relates to what I was thinking of; costs go up when retail production has to hit more than 5 patterns, for manufacturers as well as shops.

Plus the "buy an e28 and shoot like Ovechkin!!!" meme plays to the strengths of marketing. Never mind that Crosby and Eberle both do fine with hands in front shooting off the toe like Ovechkin with PM9-like curves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Definitely that's part of why those patterns won't get used anymore. The question about what's available at youth level relates to what I was thinking of; costs go up when retail production has to hit more than 5 patterns, for manufacturers as well as shops.

Plus the "buy an e28 and shoot like Ovechkin!!!" meme plays to the strengths of marketing. Never mind that Crosby and Eberle both do fine with hands in front shooting off the toe like Ovechkin with PM9-like curves.

Completely serious question: Does a $200 (Junior) retail stick cost more than $60 to make? What kind of margins are the hockey companies on to where they can't make more curves? 

Rick Nash and John Tavares use heel curves too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jamarquan said:

Completely serious question: Does a $200 (Junior) retail stick cost more than $60 to make? What kind of margins are the hockey companies on to where they can't make more curves? 

Rick Nash and John Tavares use heel curves too.

I don't know any specifics at either the point of production or the point of sale, but I'd be keenly interested to read business analyses of those different stick release plans, i.e., how the sticks produced in 5-ish patterns versus 10-ish patterns compare.

One thing is how much the stick itself costs to produce, another is all the other indirect costs that need to be covered by selling sticks and other equipment. Even if a stick costs $60, there's a lot more that selling it wholesale to retailers has to cover: electricity, rent, office supplies, R+D, etc., and of course some of it has to be profit or the company ceases to exist. I'm not sure if that 50/50 split applies to hockey retail, but I've somewhere absorbed the idea that a lot of things that one can purchase at retail cost about half of the sticker price for the retailer and then that calculation of everything being lumped into the 50% markup covers their operating costs and hopefully provides some profit otherwise the retailer ceases to exist...as a matter of fact, a sector being acutely affected by technological disruption in 2017 (1, 2). [Any reader who can provide better info, please correct misstatements and false assumptions because this is just a guess based on zero insider knowledge.]

Personally, I'm far more interested in the blade geometry I'm using than I am in getting the latest materials and shaving another 5-15g from a stick. That's pretty much 180-degress from the marketing mainstream, which is why I'm fairly certain I'll order a bunch of different shafts and blades from BASE when I start running short on my current stick stash. Also, there's no other consistent and affordable source for lie-4 blades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Video from IceWarehouse on the P30 @IW Team - Chase

Looks neat, but plenty of NHLers, and youth players, use heel curves too. The P02 isn't dead yet. Speaking of, CCM doesn't have a P02 retail curve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Hat_Trick_Hokie said:

FYI, now is your chance to grab those P46 and other curves.  Hockey Monkey is letting you pre-order the P30, P40, and P46 (among other) curves for the Super Tacks 2.0

Link

And they lowered the price of the bottom end stick by $10. Neat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The P30...may be like the Old Warrior Smyth curve...the P30 might be a better curve than the P46...but ownt know until one see's it.  The IW video should have shown the curve from above to highlight the new curve.

Edit...I really wanna know the weights of these new sticks...I don't want the lightest, BUT there is a sweetspot for weight IMO depending on your position

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unique single brand patterns don't seem to work anymore, so I'll give the P30 about a year before it gets the dodo treatment. The P28 is the only curve I can remember in recent memory that's been able to establish itself alongside PM9/P92/P88 as a multi-brand pattern.

To name a few:

CCM P19: Dying

Bauer P106: Dead

P14: Warrior tried to port it over as the "Chara", dying. 

P45 Tavares/Warrior W16 Karlsson: Dead

P46 Bergeron: Dying

Bauer P08: Dead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

Unique single brand patterns don't seem to work anymore, so I'll give the P30 about a year before it gets the dodo treatment. The P28 is the only curve I can remember in recent memory that's been able to establish itself alongside PM9/P92/P88 as a multi-brand pattern.

To name a few:

CCM P19: Dying

Bauer P106: Dead

P14: Warrior tried to port it over as the "Chara", dying. 

P45 Tavares/Warrior W16 Karlsson: Dead

P46 Bergeron: Dying

Bauer P08: Dead

P45 is still around for CCM, but it's only on the top of the line sticks, so I take your point. 

The PM9 isn't widely available either. CCM P14 (their PM9) is hard to find, as are the W01 and MC2. 

3 hours ago, hawkeyfan said:

The P30...may be like the Old Warrior Smyth curve...the P30 might be a better curve than the P46...but ownt know until one see's it.  The IW video should have shown the curve from above to highlight the new curve.

Edit...I really wanna know the weights of these new sticks...I don't want the lightest, BUT there is a sweetspot for weight IMO depending on your position

Weights are on the IW website, but as follows: 

Super Tacks 2.0 - 420g 

7092 - 465

5092 - 485g

3092 - 540g

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The p28 was a one off with Easton until Bauer, ccm and warrior picked it up...and stx and Sherwood.  The p30 could be a good one.  Who knows.  I like the p88 but would like more toe.  May try it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jamarquan said:

P45 is still around for CCM, but it's only on the top of the line sticks, so I take your point. 

The PM9 isn't widely available either. CCM P14 (their PM9) is hard to find, as are the W01 and MC2. 

Weights are on the IW website, but as follows: 

Super Tacks 2.0 - 420g 

7092 - 465

5092 - 485g

3092 - 540g

Thanks for the note...I went to THE MONKEY site 1st and no weight info...then went to IW and noticed the weights...Weight of the 5092 needs to be 475g and the 7092 needs to be 450g.  I understand about he durability issue side./ but from the $$$ side they need to be a lit lighter (just my opinoin) I will review other brands and weights prior to splurging on the CCM P30, as comparison sticks (grams/$$$) I think I can find a better deal.

#1 to #2 = 45 gram difference

#2 to #3 = 20 gram difference

#3 to #4 = 55 gram difference

OR

#1 to #3 = 65 gram diff

#3 to #4 = 55 gram diff

 

2 gen ago the weights where pretty good, then they got heavier and would really have to look to see how they compare with the previous model.  Warrior Covert line hits the target weights pretty good, but not sure about the curve options there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, hawkeyfan said:

Thanks for the note...I went to THE MONKEY site 1st and no weight info...then went to IW and noticed the weights...Weight of the 5092 needs to be 475g and the 7092 needs to be 450g.  I understand about he durability issue side./ but from the $$$ side they need to be a lit lighter (just my opinoin) I will review other brands and weights prior to splurging on the CCM P30, as comparison sticks (grams/$$$) I think I can find a better deal.

#1 to #2 = 45 gram difference

#2 to #3 = 20 gram difference

#3 to #4 = 55 gram difference

OR

#1 to #3 = 65 gram diff

#3 to #4 = 55 gram diff

 

2 gen ago the weights where pretty good, then they got heavier and would really have to look to see how they compare with the previous model.  Warrior Covert line hits the target weights pretty good, but not sure about the curve options there.

The weights I listed were based on 85 flex, so for someone like me who uses 55, it's likely to be much lighter, say ~400g for the Super Tacks. Are you looking for a stick for you or your son? 

The Covert weights, and curves based on 85 flex from IceWarehouse, are: 

QRL: 410g

QRL Pro: 479g 

QRL3: 459g

QRL4: 489g

QRL5: 495g

screen-shot-2017-02-01-at-1-36-56-pm1.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/17/2017 at 7:08 PM, hawkeyfan said:

The P30...may be like the Old Warrior Smyth curve...the P30 might be a better curve than the P46...but ownt know until one see's it.  The IW video should have shown the curve from above to highlight the new curve.

Edit...I really wanna know the weights of these new sticks...I don't want the lightest, BUT there is a sweetspot for weight IMO depending on your position

The P30 sounds like it'll be a significantly higher lie than the old Smyth. That was just a PM9 with a Coffey curve and a little bit of a shaved toe. P46 is closer to that; like a Bjugstaded PM9 (add a toe kink, shave the toe lie a bit).

For us lowliers, PM9's the beginning of the lie/stick length sweet spot, so I'm sad the lowest lie of the Bugsy curves is the one being killed off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in the boat of "love the p88, wish it had a bit of toe" so the p30 sounds right up my alley, and I imagine a lot of other guys too.

CCM never had a true p88 clone. P40 is close, but still not the same. Easton tried the same thing with the E36 but I think their problems extended beyond curve appeal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you watch the video?  They clearly state everything is like the p88 except for the toe.  It's p88 with a hook at the toe and closed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, mjpisat said:

Did you watch the video?  They clearly state everything is like the p88 except for the toe.  It's p88 with a hook at the toe and closed

I think Bjugstad is hell bent on making everyone switch to the P28. His website says:

"Dear Hockey Parents,
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Scott Bjugstad. I played professional hockey in the NHL for 10 years with the Minnesota North Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins and Los Angeles Kings.

Throughout my career, I worked hard trying to find the best ways, physically and mentally, to become a more consistent goal scorer.

Since retiring from the NHL in 1994, I have worked with over three thousand players on individual shooting lessons. These lessons along with my professional playing experience have allowed me to identify the most effective and efficient ways to teach players both physically and mentally, not only to shoot, but to catch passes and ultimately score more goals. These new and exciting shooting and scoring techniques will help your son or daughter become the best goal scorer he or she can be."

Scoring 22 goals in 6 years will do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jamarquan said:

I think Bjugstad is hell bent on making everyone switch to the P28. His website says:

"Dear Hockey Parents,
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Scott Bjugstad. I played professional hockey in the NHL for 10 years with the Minnesota North Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins and Los Angeles Kings.

Throughout my career, I worked hard trying to find the best ways, physically and mentally, to become a more consistent goal scorer.

Since retiring from the NHL in 1994, I have worked with over three thousand players on individual shooting lessons. These lessons along with my professional playing experience have allowed me to identify the most effective and efficient ways to teach players both physically and mentally, not only to shoot, but to catch passes and ultimately score more goals. These new and exciting shooting and scoring techniques will help your son or daughter become the best goal scorer he or she can be."

Scoring 22 goals in 6 years will do that.

But he's had a hand in promoting lots of curves, not just the P28: also P/W14, E36, P46, now P30. He just seems to think everyone should use a blade like Brett Hull's.

 

9 hours ago, tickles said:

Is this P30 like seth jones and roman josi use? PM9 with an uptick at the toe and a toe hook? If so I'm game coming from p46 

So far it seems the correspondences are:

E6 (Drury) -> P28

?? -> P14

E4 / PM9 -> P46

P88 or P40 -> P30

Maybe the P46 was too low of a lie for retail so now they're having essentially the flat heel P28 and radiused heel P30, probably closer to each other in lie than the P46 and P28 are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, flip12 said:

But he's had a hand in promoting lots of curves, not just the P28: also P/W14, E36, P46, now P30. He just seems to think everyone should use a blade like Brett Hull's.

 

So far it seems the correspondences are:

E6 (Drury) -> P28

?? -> P14

E4 / PM9 -> P46

P88 or P40 -> P30

Maybe the P46 was too low of a lie for retail so now they're having essentially the flat heel P28 and radiused heel P30, probably closer to each other in lie than the P46 and P28 are.

I was more or less poking fun / forcing a joke at Bjugstad not being a good scorer after getting 43 one year, then putting many open toe curves in the retail market. And the E36 was a mid curve P88 clone, which seems out of place.

I'm sure you know what it looks like, but Hull's curve: image-22.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 7:32 AM, Jamarquan said:

 

I'm sure you know what it looks like, but Hull's curve: image-22.jpg

 

 

Ok, I read through the thread and my head is spinning with all these blade pattern numbers ( remember, I'm an old time player). I love the old Hull pattern and the open face. To recap, what are the best current patterns for the Hull fan in a 5/5.5 lie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@flip12 P14 reads like a derivative of the Iginla/P12 to me- short blade, angled toe, additional rocker added to account for the pull and shoot motion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2017 at 1:32 PM, Jamarquan said:

I was more or less poking fun / forcing a joke at Bjugstad not being a good scorer after getting 43 one year, then putting many open toe curves in the retail market. And the E36 was a mid curve P88 clone, which seems out of place.

I'm sure you know what it looks like, but Hull's curve: 

 

To me, that looks very P28, P14. I know there are some slight difference between those three, but the general idea is the same: open toe heel-plus-mid-or-toe curve. Hull of course rockered his blades' toes as aggressively as anyone out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/17/2017 at 7:12 AM, Jamarquan said:

Video from IceWarehouse on the P30 @IW Team - Chase

Looks neat, but plenty of NHLers, and youth players, use heel curves too. The P02 isn't dead yet. Speaking of, CCM doesn't have a P02 retail curve.

Apparently CCM will have the P20 (P02 clone) release sometime soon. 

Hooray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...