Graf PK 7700 Questions

[2nhockey 21]

I've been looking and watching for some in depth reviews for the PK 7700's, especially in comparison to other skate brands, and the information that is out there is limited. The best I found was a review here on MSH of some, I think, 4400's.

Anyway, I am trying to figure out if I need to buy PK7700's or go look in the Vapor line.

I'd like to know what technology the Grafs have in them, and if it really matters, especially in comparison to comparable Bauers or CCM'S. In other words, if a Bauer and Graf feel equally comfortable and were priced the same, why would someone choose one over the other? Weight? Durability? Nothing tangible? 

Thanks!

[Kgbeast 195]

PK line of Graf regardless of the number, is a different look into skates from Graf point of view. This is the skate line that is basically replacement of their traditional skates such as 535,735, but with use of lighter composites and non-absorbing liner. Result is the same fit and feel as traditional legacy skates, while significant reduction in weight and improvement in moisture management. Even the runners radius on PK line was reduced to 10' (or actually less) from 11'. No more the screws, it is all rivets now. Something feels different about the lacing system. It looks like plain old eyelets, but it grips the laces better it seems. So when you comparing PeakSpeed to Supras, there is a huge difference, but comparing them to modern CCM or Bauer is a bit less evident. I would say that Graf offers more value for the money and I am pretty sure, that their skates will still outlast the competition. One thing about PeakSpeed skates comparing to other, is the tongue design. It is a kind of multi-density tongue with relief in the middle so I would suspect it will be the best as far as lace-bite prevention goes. Lined toe-box is nice. Reliable eyelets and smart lacing system reinforcements. Obviously still one of the most secure heel-locks. I think that Graf holders are still the best once you remedy the nut problem. If you looking to update your existing Graf skates, you should give these a go, if you are looking to get them instead of old Bauer or CCM pair, you might be happier to stick with CCM or Bauer. It seems that most people that switched from CCM or Bauer to Grafs are always moan and groan about something. Graf has always stayed within their own philosophy about how the skates should feel so that is still true.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Unless they fit you better than other brands, I'd avoid Graf. They went under in North America both because retailers wouldnt carry them because sales were so poor, but also because the quality and QA had gotten pretty bad. Mix in a not especially great customer service experience (or none at all at this point), and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Again, this is unless they fit your feet really well and better than the other brands.

[Dojrt 2]

I've been wearing Graf skates since the early 90's.  I've had 703, 707, Ultra G5, G75, 935.  I got the PK7700s from Monkey a few months ago and I'm disappointed. 

First thing I noticed was that the tag reads "designed in Canada, made in China."

Next. they used a type of shiny plastic in the areas where the leather/leather-like material was on the older models.  It seems thin and looks like it wouldn't hold up to contact with a skate blade. 

No doubt, to save weight, they made the tongue thinner than the older ones, as well as the sole which is so thin that they need to use rivets instead of the screws which, to me, takes away an advantage Graf previously had over other brands.

I've skated on them a few times.  They are not uncomfortable, just a bit stiff.  The fit is similar to the 935 but after baking, they didn't form to my foot quite as well as the G75 or 935.

If I did mostly coaching or played an occasional pickup game I would probably be satisfied with them.  I play 4 - 5  hours per week so I made the invesment in VH - no comparison.

Bottom line:  if you can find a pair of PK7700s to try on and examine in person, compare them with Bauer/CCM and make the decision.  If you are going with mail order, I recommend that you avoid them.

[krisdrum 223]

Just to add to the pile, they are not going to fit like Vapors.  Heel is going to be narrow in both, but the Grafs will have a much wider forefoot than a standard Vapor will.  I started in Vapor EE after trying on a BUNCH of stuff and really liking the Graf G75 and 735 in a R width (but couldn't justify the expense of them at the time as I was just starting, probably a big mistake in hindsight).  Had to get the Vapors in EE to accommodate my forefoot width and even then had to do some strategic punching to fix some pain points and hotspots.  But I needed the narrow heel.  About a year ago, I picked up some new old stock Graf 535 Wides.  Same basic fit parameters of the ones I liked.  The heel lock was night and day.  Grafs, hands down.  I think where I messed up, was going for the wide width.  It was definitely more comfortable, but I think partially due to a bit too roomy of a fit.  I tried to make them work for awhile, but just was never really comfortable with them.  So, I've moved on.  It seems to me the PeakSpeed were Graf NA's last ditch effort to boost sales so they wouldn't go under.  Unfortunately they ran out of time before they could really get the skates out to the public. 

[Kgbeast 195]

To the OP... If you have any specific questions about the skate construction, you can send an email to  mvaughn@vaughnhockey.com . Vaughn Hockey is now the distributor, support, and manufacturing for Graf in NA. Even though the questions you will ask are to non-existing Graf Canada, Mike has pretty good amount of info on PeakSpeed line manufactured by Graf Canada and will answer at least most of the questions.

[flip12 699]

8 hours ago, Dojrt said:

I've been wearing Graf skates since the early 90's.  I've had 703, 707, Ultra G5, G75, 935.  I got the PK7700s from Monkey a few months ago and I'm disappointed. 

First thing I noticed was that the tag reads "designed in Canada, made in China."

Next. they used a type of shiny plastic in the areas where the leather/leather-like material was on the older models.  It seems thin and looks like it wouldn't hold up to contact with a skate blade. 

No doubt, to save weight, they made the tongue thinner than the older ones, as well as the sole which is so thin that they need to use rivets instead of the screws which, to me, takes away an advantage Graf previously had over other brands.

I've skated on them a few times.  They are not uncomfortable, just a bit stiff.  The fit is similar to the 935 but after baking, they didn't form to my foot quite as well as the G75 or 935.

If I did mostly coaching or played an occasional pickup game I would probably be satisfied with them.  I play 4 - 5  hours per week so I made the invesment in VH - no comparison.

Bottom line:  if you can find a pair of PK7700s to try on and examine in person, compare them with Bauer/CCM and make the decision.  If you are going with mail order, I recommend that you avoid them.

I was a devoted Graf 700-series skate wearer and recently got some cheap G35's, hoping they'd be a middle ground between 703's and stiffer, lighter boots on the market today...in a way that's what they are, but they have lost a lot of the great subtleties that made the 700's so great. Including the thinner tongue, but also the "wider" toe box that's less anatomical and less natural feeling of the boot along the foot, there are so many details that don't meet the standards classic Grafs lead one to expect.

I'm glad I got them cheap because they're still a great skate for what I paid for them, but I'd take a pair of classic 703's over G35's any day. For the money, I'd also go with VH, but I'm hoping now that they're under True, we'll see some of their technology pop up in lower price brackets in the same way True has made price point sticks shine above others.

[2nhockey 21]

Thanks for the feedback. 

This would be a mail order deal for me. The comments here are kind of leading me away from these skates even though I am curious about them. But... it seems I have to get my skates punched and massaged to get them to fit right anyway so I am now looking into the VH thread. Maybe just easiest to just get Bauers and be done...

[2nhockey 21]

Just to finish this out... I was looking for skates for my daughter and with every city we traveled to across WY, MT, ND, SD, and MN for games or tournaments we stopped into every hockey shop we could find looking for a unicorn - skates that would stand up to her level of play, be comfortable, and perform. I'm pretty sure she's tried on about everything and we tried to pull the trigger on some Supremes but the shop (in Bismark) didn't have her size. Then I tried researching Bauer's runners and got confused and frustrated with their stuff. In the dozens of shops we have been in, not a pair of new production Grafs to be found...

Ordered a pair of PK7700's from Hockey Monkey 3 weeks ago. Got them, thought they looked great. Daughter wasn't sure of the fit (initially thought they were too small), but she thought they'd break in. I baked them (at home), had them profiled, and sent her to an open skate. The fit still wasn't great but everyone was very curious about the skates. They did attract a lot of attention. Got them home, baked them again, and sent her to a powerskating practice.

She said the fit was great but the skates really howled on stops and turns. Like, really bad. I re-sharpened the skates, and tightened the blades up. Next skate the howl was mostly gone. Seems like you have to break the steel in!

So this weekend she played 5 games and she is utterly thrilled with the skates. She blocked a few shots and said she felt no pain. I knew that was going to be a big deal for her because in her Makos there were a lot of times she hobbled off the ice after blocking a shot.

The steel is certainly better than her 535's but nowhere near as hard as the Makos. However, the skates held their edges well enough for all 5 games that we didn't have to run down a sharpener while at the tournament.

For reference, she skates at the varsity level.

During the regular season she is on the ice pretty much 7 days a week. Typically she plays 6 games and practices 8-10 hours. During the summer she's on the ice more than most, but nowhere near the regular season pace. She has another 5-6 game tournament coming up, then a week at Shattuck-St. Mary's. By then I imagine we'll have an idea of their durability. I will say they are a great looking skate, though.

Thanks for the help!

[Kgbeast 195]

I think those are LT holders. Not sure if they are plagued with the same self-loosening runner retainer nut. If you think they are, go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a pair of o-rings. I think they are about 0.27 diameter and just under 1/16" thick. Slide them over the nut, between head and one washer (do not use the second washer), they should go tight. Tight the nut until it feels like it rebounds, which is just touch after it is snug. This should end loosening if I it is a problem. Also look at the room above the toes, you might want to fill it with that pad such a Powerfoot insert.

[2nhockey 21]

Never thought of an o-ring before. I loctited the 535's because they did self loosen. O-ring would be a better solution.  Thanks!