Home Sharpening Tips and Techniques

[jmiro 55]

Dresser and wheel where bought new after i got the machine

[Vet88 673]

Quality of the stone? I've seen this demonstrated to me where the same sharpener used a cheap / mediocre stone versus a quality stone and the finish was a night and day difference.

[jmiro 55]

It is the pink stone from wissota.  Can you use other wheels on a wissota?

[Vet88 673]

Sorry but I can't help there. I use incredible sharpeners and we source stones from Germany, wouldn't use anything else. Even then you get subtle variations between the stones. lol, I can't feel it but the the guy I work with can - touch, feel and sound of the stone on the blade. If it isn't right he will redress the stone then change it out if he isn't happy.

[Playmakersedge 58]

Sharpening:  I learned on a old CCM sharpener, and have used blade master have done custom radius etc:   the biggest mistakes I see are 

1) not cleaning the table and not keeping a good slide pad on the holder. 

2) going end to end by pivoting the holder.  This technique will take too much off the nose and the heal .:: proper is start your pass to the side of the center the holder as close to parallel to the table as possible. 

3)not facing the wheel for the final pass

4) holding the skate and not the holder.  Put your hands on the holder. 

5) going back and forth on the wheel.  Not good.  This is proper: if you have huge nicks in the edge make two passes going against wheel rotation.  Inspect. Once the damage is gone touch up the wheel  (lightly dress it) then make two to three passes going with wheel rotation.. You will get a smooth edge.

6) feeling hurried.  Get comfortable, slow down, light hands ,you are guiding the holder not pushing it .  

I own the SSM2 sharpener , and I am a rep for the company.  What apealed to me was the feel over the wheel. All you can feel is the wheel following the blade.  Blade holder is on an arm with bearings zero drag . I bought my machine before I became a rep for SSM . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 6/10/2017 at 1:39 PM, purepearl32 said:

I think the most frustrating thing for me is not being able to 'feel' the edges until I skate on them. Everything can look good and level but perform poorly on the ice.  Any way of possibly checking this?

Also, how often do you guys redress your wheel under the assumption that you're doing between 10-15 passes per skate?

I find the primary cause of this is not running a stone down each side of the blade to take the burs off. Skating on the but feels like they weren't sharpened and drag going forward gliding 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 7/15/2017 at 7:53 PM, purepearl32 said:

Great knowledge so far! Thanks for everyone!

Got another one for you guru's. Is there a way to cool a blade down while sharpening, other than giving it 5-10 minutes? I was working on a skate that had a large nick so I was obviously making more passes and the steel became quite hot (no burn marks though). I thought about using a slightly damp rag and then drying the steel off before touching the wheel again but I wasn't sure so I just gave it time to cool. Just curious. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

There is nothing I have used in this situation.  I build custom vehicles and there is a heat controlling gel (?) In electronics I have used heat sinks so the heat doesn't ruin components  (alligator clips)  . But in this case I would let the metal cool on its own. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/12/2017 at 9:55 AM, jmiro said:

It is the pink stone from wissota.  Can you use other wheels on a wissota?

Yes ,use a wheel with ceramic in it . I like using an 80 grit wheel. I believe the pink is silicon carbide.  Be sure that your wheel is balanced. 

[jmiro 55]

5 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

Yes ,use a wheel with ceramic in it . I like using an 80 grit wheel. I believe the pink is silicon carbide.  Be sure that your wheel is balanced. 

Can you elaborate for me?  Both how to check wheel for balance and maybe where to get other wheels.  I ordered from wissota as i need new felt, wheel, dresser, and stone when i got it.

[purepearl32 6]

For the experienced sharpeners out there.....I've read a lot about the importance of properly dressing the wheel but very few go into any detail at all about this process. Some advocate turning the quill while dressing and others make no mention of it. Some say to keep dressing until the diamond is no longer touching the wheel. Some make passes very quickly while others go slow. Can someone clear up the confusion? I think this part of the sharpening process is critical for a great finish and it would be beneficial for us noobs to know how to do this properly. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/14/2017 at 11:02 PM, jmiro said:

Can you elaborate for me?  Both how to check wheel for balance and maybe where to get other wheels.  I ordered from wissota as i need new felt, wheel, dresser, and stone when i got it.

Wheel balance on a fresh wheel: wheel shroud off,  you are going to have a fastener and what looks like two large washers the top have an elongated hole,that's the balancing ring ,one under is a washer .. remove the wheel.     Make sure your lower half of the arbor is clean .      Install the wheel,, washer ,,balance ring.  The balance ring has a reference mark put this in a twelve o'clock position, make a sharpie mark on the wheel in line .snug it all down  . Grab a glass of water .  Start the machine put the glass on the table and look at the water little to no ripple your all set . Significant ripple ,loosen the sastener and move your balance mark to six o'clock, snug it down, start machine, water on the table  ,little to no ripple your good.  If there is significant  then move balancer to 3:00  snug  down  run the machine put water on ,little too no ripple your all set  . Ripple significant  then do the same . You will get a feel for it by seeing the water......

Grinding wheels:  thickness, center size and diameter are basic  . Then there is hardness, then there is the make up of the wheel ceramic mix with silicon carbide or silicon carbide.  There is a brand Howie's they have a yellow wheel that work nice on your machine.  I believe your machine takes a 7"  wheel 1.25" center.  Double check that .

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/15/2017 at 2:40 PM, purepearl32 said:

For the experienced sharpeners out there.....I've read a lot about the importance of properly dressing the wheel but very few go into any detail at all about this process. Some advocate turning the quill while dressing and others make no mention of it. Some say to keep dressing until the diamond is no longer touching the wheel. Some make passes very quickly while others go slow. Can someone clear up the confusion? I think this part of the sharpening process is critical for a great finish and it would be beneficial for us noobs to know how to do this properly. 

I take as little as possible off the wheel.  I listen for even contact.  Then I move the dressing until it makes no contact. I rotate the diamond ever 10 sharpens .

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/14/2017 at 5:36 PM, Playmakersedge said:

Yes ,use a wheel with ceramic in it . I like using an 80 grit wheel. I believe the pink is silicon carbide.  Be sure that your wheel is balanced. 

Grainger, McMaster Carr , Howie's  for getting wheels.    

[purepearl32 6]

Hello everyone,

I'm curious as to what I'll be looking for when this wheel needs to be replaced? Here are a couple shots when the guard is off and one where the guard is flush with the machine.

 

[jmiro 55]

Ok so am i over thinking this. Use an edge checker prior shapening.  Find edge is off.  Place in holder do wittness mark. Find wheel is hitting the high edge more.  Then sharpen two passes and check again still slightly off.  Adjust holder for correction.  Two more passes and check.  Presents as even after words finish with three more passes.  Stone and check.  Does this sound right?

[jmiro 55]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:23 PM, Playmakersedge said:

Grainger, McMaster Carr , Howie's  for getting wheels.    

Wissota is a seven inch wheel.  Howie's has a ruby wheel.

[kdwyer56 6]

1 hour ago, jmiro said:

Ok so am i over thinking this. Use an edge checker prior shapening.  Find edge is off.  Place in holder do wittness mark. Find wheel is hitting the high edge more.  Then sharpen two passes and check again still slightly off.  Adjust holder for correction.  Two more passes and check.  Presents as even after words finish with three more passes.  Stone and check.  Does this sound right?

Whenever I sharpen skates I stone them, do 8-10 passes depending on how many nicks there are and if there is a rolled edge, edge check, if needed adjust, if i adjust i do 3-5 more passes, edge check again, if level i do my final pass, check final time to make sure, stone again w fine stone and use a piece of leather to clean the hollow, then i feel the blade to make sure there are no major nicks left and that the edges are sharp and there is no dull spots.

[mickz 107]

On 11/13/2017 at 1:40 PM, Playmakersedge said:

Sharpening:  I learned on a old CCM sharpener, and have used blade master have done custom radius etc:   the biggest mistakes I see are 

1) not cleaning the table and not keeping a good slide pad on the holder. 

2) going end to end by pivoting the holder.  This technique will take too much off the nose and the heal .:: proper is start your pass to the side of the center the holder as close to parallel to the table as possible. 

3)not facing the wheel for the final pass

4) holding the skate and not the holder.  Put your hands on the holder. 

5) going back and forth on the wheel.  Not good.  This is proper: if you have huge nicks in the edge make two passes going against wheel rotation.  Inspect. Once the damage is gone touch up the wheel  (lightly dress it) then make two to three passes going with wheel rotation.. You will get a smooth edge.

6) feeling hurried.  Get comfortable, slow down, light hands ,you are guiding the holder not pushing it .  

I own the SSM2 sharpener , and I am a rep for the company.  What apealed to me was the feel over the wheel. All you can feel is the wheel following the blade.  Blade holder is on an arm with bearings zero drag . I bought my machine before I became a rep for SSM . 

I never go against the grain when sharpening.  if there are large nicks I would raise/lower the blade accordingly and grind it out before sharpening.  What is facing the wheel?  Is that the same as dressing?

On 11/15/2017 at 11:40 AM, purepearl32 said:

For the experienced sharpeners out there.....I've read a lot about the importance of properly dressing the wheel but very few go into any detail at all about this process. Some advocate turning the quill while dressing and others make no mention of it. Some say to keep dressing until the diamond is no longer touching the wheel. Some make passes very quickly while others go slow. Can someone clear up the confusion? I think this part of the sharpening process is critical for a great finish and it would be beneficial for us noobs to know how to do this properly. 

Do not turn the quill while dressing.  You want to rotate it 1/4 turn before each dress to ensure even wear on the diamond.

On 11/18/2017 at 2:52 PM, purepearl32 said:

Hello everyone,

I'm curious as to what I'll be looking for when this wheel needs to be replaced? Here are a couple shots when the guard is off and one where the guard is flush with the machine.

 

You can still push your guard further in.  I change my wheels when the finish is poor.  You will need to do slower passes as the wheel gets smaller unless you are on a machine with variable speed.

3 hours ago, jmiro said:

Ok so am i over thinking this. Use an edge checker prior shapening.  Find edge is off.  Place in holder do wittness mark. Find wheel is hitting the high edge more.  Then sharpen two passes and check again still slightly off.  Adjust holder for correction.  Two more passes and check.  Presents as even after words finish with three more passes.  Stone and check.  Does this sound right?

Witness marks are outdated and not useful.  People used to teach cross grind + witness marks but that is a waste of steel.  You will get an inaccurate reading if you make witness marks on a skate with a hollow on it already.

[Playmakersedge 58]

Witness marks are not out dated . And you are barely touching the steel to the wheel  .    Edge checkers work. But for an experienced person a nickel is all you need . Have been sharpenings for 37 years .  .  Wissota:  sharpener, the skate holder has 3 adjustments one in the rear this is to square the holder to the table. Actually use a square and do this before putting a skate in the holder..... there is an adjustment on each end of the holder  ,these raise and lower the skate holder surface the skate sits on .  Measure your wheel thickness, cut that in half and make a dot at the wheel center.   Measure the thickness of your skates blade.  Write it down. Take half that number ,slide the skate holder to your wheel (machine off)  . Adjustment the skate holder so the part the bottom of the blade sets on is half a blade lower than the mark on your wheel .each end should be Identical on the adjustment dial . Make small sharpie marks on the three adjustments . This is your base setting and should be on the money making correct measurements and using a sharp pencil for your wheel center mark. 

Put the holder to the side . Resurface the wheel ,whipe the table. Put pledge on a towel and whipe the table again, this makes the holder slide smooth . Put your skate in the holder toe facing wheel rotation.  

@  the toe of the blade  just lightly touch the wheel  . The heal do the same. Both of these marks should look equal. If they do ,sharpen the skate . Only make passes going with the wheel direction.  Passes with light steady pressure an medium speed , it should sound the same all the way down the skate.  Count your passes.   Remove the skate from the holder and run the honing stone down each side.  Grab a quarter  hold the skate blade up ,put the quarter on the center of the blade  ,looking down the blade like a gun site it will be obvious if the edges are equal . You are looking at the quarter in reference to the sides of the blade.  It will be obvious.   This is tried and true and it has been used on players skates that move like the wind for years and years and years  . 

Now you got a base setting. Make note of the skate you set up with . A Bauer with a standard tuuk blade?  You are going to be able to be on the money with many brands . When you put a skate in you haven't done.  Do the light touch toe and heal  ,if it's not acceptable adjust the end adjuster down or up ,make a light mark again, when the marks are square to the blade.  Make a sharpie dot on the nob and holder in a different color.   Write that down  that way you see that blade type again you know where to set up .

 

The dial on the back of the holder that squares the holder to the table once it's set leave it alone.  When you are more experienced you can use that to adjust if you're edge is flat ,it's a cheat . I don't do it . And I will confuse you more by explaining that now. The way I explained above is proper tried and true.  

[Playmakersedge 58]

And it doesn't matter if the previous edge is off . You are taking that away 

[mickz 107]

Making witness marks on a blade that already has a hollow in it is a waste of time.  You don't need to go through that huge process but keep doing what you're doing if that's been working for you in the last 37 years.

Watch any of the pros, like Dana Heinze of the Pittsburgh Penguins, sharpen and he doesn't make witness marks or start bringing out calipers either.  I sharpened in a LHS for 5 years and we'd get all levels of players (recreational, Junior and NHL) coming in so I think we're doing something right.

[Playmakersedge 58]

12 minutes ago, mickz said:

Making witness marks on a blade that already has a hollow in it is a waste of time.  You don't need to go through that huge process but keep doing what you're doing if that's been working for you in the last 37 years.

Watch any of the pros, like Dana Heinz

13 minutes ago, mickz said:

Making witness marks on a blade that already has a hollow in it is a waste of time.  You don't need to go through that huge process but keep doing what you're doing if that's been working for you in the last 37 years.

Watch any of the pros, like Dana Heinze of the Pittsburgh Penguins, sharpen and he doesn't make witness marks or start bringing out calipers either.  I sharpened in a LHS for 5 years and we'd get all levels of players (recreational, Junior and NHL) coming in so I think we're doing something right.

e of the Pittsburgh Penguins, sharpen and he doesn't make witness marks or start bringing out calipers either.  I sharpened in a LHS for 5 years and we'd get all levels of players (recreational, Junior and NHL) coming in so I think we're doing something right.

I started from square 1 with my explanation:  taking a brand new machine out of the box and setting it up dead nuts . the process I explained above will take no more than five minutes.  And if this person is doing there own skates only they don't have to touch it again.  On other hockey skates it will take very little adjustment. Except goalie skates 

No imagine watching this person sharpen skates you mean YOU Tube . I imagine that he is using a certain blade checker before then putting the skate in the holder and makes a few passes then removes the skate and puts the blade checker back on .  If it's off he then adjusts his holder .Then makes three more passes then checks with the edge checker if it's on the money he takes a finish pass ..... This is wasting time and steel . This is turning a simple process and turning into an elaborate process . And designed to sell edge checkers . The process with the edge checker has five passes on the skate before anything is checked. 

Also notice in the videos or at a lhs the folks walk up to a machine with a set up that's a close base line .The machine doesn't come out of the box like that  . It's all wonky , it has to be set up . 

You can learn from you tube:: but what I find with you tube is folks often become conversational experts. This after watching a few videos and probably sharpening 200 pair if that ....

Then they get an opportunity to learn from another pro,another method, a method that was done before there were ever edge checkers . Instead of hearing and realize this has value . The video watcher then parrots the video that had its focus on an edge checker.   Telling everyone in the content of the video.  You gotta have an edge checker  . Marketing.  

I sell them with my machines69.99.i would much rather my customer spend money on upgrading there wheel or getting the top of the line honing stone.   

[jmiro 55]

I can say i appreciate him going in detail of his process.  Thats kinda what i was looking for.  I was able to talk to one of the top sharpeners around here.  He still uses witness marks at times.  Using witness marks has helped me learn.  One thing i have found is everyone seems to have an opinion on what works and what doesn't.  I can appreciate the variance in opinions, as i helps you determine what works for you.  Reminds me of reloading ammo.  

So the cheap ebay edge checker craped the bed already.  Magnets fell off and lable started pealing.  I am still learning. The edge checker helps me as do witness marks.  So far a light touch then i can adjust, measure and they come out pretty decent.  Better than the rinks inconsistent sharpening (depending on who and when it is done) which i just had fix another pair for some one. 

By the way my wissota has the one dail old holder.  To check level of the holder i used a vernier caliper on both sides and squared it with a machinist square after the felt was replaced. How often does felt need replaced?  Setting the dresser was a pain as eyeballing doesnt work for me because depending on the angle you look at it it seems off. I used three sqaures for it.  As for table care i have been using liquid turtle wax.  Tried cutting oil used on a mill and ivory soap still not happy with the finish.  I am using the pink 80grit wheel.  It seems wissota now has a 100grit wheel available now.  Any opinions on that?  Howies has a ruby wheel as well.  Not sure what grit it is.

[Playmakersedge 58]

Ok so so your wissota machines holder is the style that has a 45ºangles and one knob on the end?    Seriously try a coin to look at edge height.   . Dressing the wheel:  The machine has a collar and a set screw that secures the diamond to the yoke?   I think the dresser has marks on it . That should give you your radius/ hallow.       Try pledge.   Felt: with being fussy about The table being clean it will last a long time. Use visual inspection to tell.  

Your skate holder also has a tee lock to lock the adjustment. If yes I'm not a fan of that holder.  

My first sharpener I made when I was a kid. What started me making it was I got one of those skate holders free from the rink . They are very sensitive to how hard a life the have had . It wasn't equal on each end .  I used a radial arm saw power head and made my radius arm off the motor mount bracket/guard .  We had a heavy steel adjustable table.  I used a old cast iron table saw table for slide surface. Entire head unit I made bolt threw both tables threads in the lower table  . My radius arm was one arm . I had access to short diamond dressers so I made my rig accept them with a set screw  .    To take the defect out of the holder after everything was together  I used the bottom of the grinding wheel to take all the imperfections on the surface of the bottom land on the holder.     Worked really well for what it was .  Thing was crazy heavy.  The table everything was connected to had a crank that raise or lower the table four casters and three brakes. 

I was 13 and had no idea how to do the math to figure out the radius  marks so I used  sockets to use as a template for the arch and made marks on my diamond holder for 1/2",5/8",3/4",1"   I still don't know the math hehehe