Very upset with hockey monkey

[althoma1 574]

1 hour ago, Playmakersedge said:

Looking for quality information.  And is the jet speed the same.  I am gathering this is a high end skate from a few years ago. 

The RBZ and Jetspeed are two completely different lines with a different fit - RBZ is wider all over and also fit bigger (you'd need to go down .5 to one full size in RBZ vs. a Jetspeed for length depending on what model/year of Jetspeed). Their was no successor to the RBZ line.

The 2015 Jetspeed was a top of the line skate from 2015/16. The new Jetspeed line that came out this year had a sizing change. The 2015/16 Jetspeed fit the same lengthwise as the 2014/15 Tacks, but was a narrower skate. The 2017 Jetspeed is still on the narrow side, but is sized a half size smaller (meaning someone going from a 2015 to a 2017 model would have to buy a half size larger). The Jetspeed is a good skate IF it fits your foot well. It would not work well for my feet as I have a very wide forefoot.

The key lesson is that the sizing and fit varies not only from brand to brand and model to model, but also from year to year. Buying skates online successfully without trying them on in person is very difficult. Getting to a good store with a knowledgeable staff and good selection is really worth the effort if it's at all possible. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

 Yes I agree  . If the rbz was renamed I was going to go to the big box store and try them on .   Thank you

[Vet88 673]

Jetspeed is not the same as RBZ. There is significant difference in fit, RBZ is wide and open heel, Jetspeed is a medium forefoot with a narrowish heel (but not as narrow as the same year Rbk line). Jetspeeds were the last top of the line model (replaced by FT1's) and are a good skate except the eyelets. If you sweat a lot then you have to take exceptional care of the eyelets otherwise they will rust out on you extra quick. If you were a 11 in todays Bauer, you would buy a 10.5 Jetspeed.

Here is the thread where the ccm rep talks about sizing versus Bauer but note that this is relative to skates in 2015 / 16 era.

 

[Davideo 99]

47 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Looking for quality information.  And is the jet speed the same.  I am gathering this is a high end skate from a few years ago. 

You got quality information: go to a store and try on skates. I'm not sure why you are so resistant. I was in the same position as you trying to get new skates after not buying ones for over a dozen years. So much has changed with fit, stiffness, etc. I was looking for something similar to late 90's CCM tacks, but trying to get comparisons on new skates to a 15 year old model from Internet users or hockey shop workers proved to be a fools errand. I wanted to believe that information was there, but I couldn't find it.

I'm also not sure how a car dealership damaging a customers car is in any way related to providing potentially bad sizing information to a customer who then decides to bake, sharpen, and use the skates.

[Playmakersedge 58]

Hi

44 minutes ago, Davideo said:

You got quality information: go to a store and try on skates. I'm not sure why you are so resistant. I was in the same position as you trying to get new skates after not buying ones for over a dozen years. So much has changed with fit, stiffness, etc. I was looking for something similar to late 90's CCM tacks, but trying to get comparisons on new skates to a 15 year old model from Internet users or hockey shop workers proved to be a fools errand. I wanted to believe that information was there, but I couldn't find it.

I'm also not sure how a car dealership damaging a customers car is in any way related to providing potentially bad sizing information to a customer who then decides to bake, sharpen, and use the skates.

Oh imeant the quality of the rbz not what folks are saying  .....my little car cenanario is about being a customer in another realm and expecting them to know there shit ; trusting that they have the knowledge  and getting a shit result primarly because they didn't know .

And as I have said:  either shop this area had . Did not stock big wide sizes .I had to go in there ,bring what I have they ask me what I want we discus and order the skates.  The skates arrived he 8' radius them& sharpened them he called me said my skates are in . I laced them on there gave my opinion and said I gotta go take a couple laps . Twice I handed skates back and got something else ordered . No questions asked.returned.  he made it up on the sticks,pants, pads and referrals  and I bought three pair a year.  No questions asked.  He thought I was crazy going so tight with my skate   13-14 EEE in my shoes going into 11ee or 11eee skate .  I just twitched my foot the skate reacted and I played center always cutting and moving  never loose momentum. I would kill the counters in the skates. But I will be very surprised tomorrow when I go if the have what I want to try in stock.   Never has been the case .

  Looking for quality information.  And is the jet speed the same.  I am gathering this is a high end skate from a few years ago. 

[althoma1 574]

RBZ and Jetspeed are definitely NOT the same skate/fit. The RBZ 90 was third from the top of that line. The RBZ line had more volume, width and length than any other line at the time. People had to go down approximately 1 full size from Bauer and half size from the other CCM skates that were out at that time. The RBZ line was discontinued and there are no current skates that fit exactly like that line. 

[Stewie 721]

10 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

 Baking is part of the fitting.  The baking process is described as taking up empty space. There are plastics that shrink or stretch with heat . .you are right they would probably loose money this time.  But they would have procured a return customer and a HM advocate.  A guy that would say to the lady at the rink asking me about where to go: go to HM they are great .  In business you win a lot by losing a little sometimes . Each situation and circumstance are different.    They are tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime . They have already lost more then they would by satisfy a customer. 

For these skates were intended to get me by until tax time.  Then I was going to get the best CCM Elite skate for me ,helmet, gloves, and couple sticks .   

Baking will fit the skate to the  smaller details. It will not shorten or lengthen a skate. You’d be able to tell if a skate is a size too big without baking. If it worked as you described, there’d be no reason for half sizes. The plastics don’t shrink or stretch much, your footbed  and toecap should remain unchanged after a baking, otherwise you will damage the holder. It’s  the foams that that change and mold on the foot, mostly. 

Where do you live that there is no brick and mortar hockeymonkey, peranis, or purehockey within an hour drive? I’m assuming that you’re close enough since in another thread you mentioned that you are a rep for a sharpener company, so I’m assuming you’re in a hockey market.  Any of those chains can likely pull in store what size you need and fit you in store. I have had my local pure hockey pull in stuff that I need (sorry JR) several times, and try it on there. 

[Stewie 721]

6 hours ago, puckpilot said:

At least one LHS in my area will exchange skates that have been baked and sharpened AND skated on within the first 30 days as long as they're unblemished. I did it last Christmas because the skates were giving me lace bite.

I'm sort of in the middle on this. I can understand that etailers side of things, but at the same time, they should train their staff to instruct people that there are ways for a person to figure out their size at home to a decent degree of accuracy, and have them do that before locking down that sale, especially the second time. I mean HM had two shots at getting the man into a proper fitting skate, and they missed both times. If they did that, you'd think they'd try to work with the guy to come to some sort of solution/compromise instead of trying to blow him off. 

I mean how about take them back as sort of consignment and put them up on their clearance section at a discount, with the stipulation that he only gets back what they can sell them for. Yes it may be a bit of a hassle on HM part, and yes, hecould do it himself, but it's probably easier for HM to move something than a private person. I mean isn't part customer care is, going out of your way to make a customer happy?.  

 

 

There’s some big differences here. HM lists the policy clearly on their site. Also, the LHS probably did the baking and everything in house. It was not purchased and then baked by the customer, where you don’t know what method they used etc. if your LHS does this, they are probably dealing with few returns as there is someone there already doing the fitting. If hockeymonkey allowed this, they’d end up with tons of home baked skates, as skate returns are probably much more likely on online purchases. Then they end up being some sort of consignment marketplace? 

I’ve returned skates to Hockeymonkey with zero issues. 

[Stewie 721]

1 hour ago, althoma1 said:

RBZ and Jetspeed are definitely NOT the same skate/fit. The RBZ 90 was third from the top of that line. The RBZ line had more volume, width and length than any other line at the time. People had to go down approximately 1 full size from Bauer and half size from the other CCM skates that were out at that time. The RBZ line was discontinued and there are no current skates that fit exactly like that line. 

This is accurate. I’m a 7.5 in ribcor/tacks but had to go to a 6.5 to try RBZ at Summerjam one year. 

[strosedefence34 175]

You could also try tracing your foot and getting your measurement that way.  It will give you the length and width.  It won't neccearly help which line of skates you should be in.  However Icewarehouse has a pretty good starting point for that as well.

http://www.icewarehouse.com/lc/icehockeyskatesizing.html

Once you figure out your sizing you can check out places like SidelineSwap, Ebay, or Craigslist for skates.  The only downside is they will most likely be used in your price range and you cannot return them if they don't fit right.  I have picked up multipule pairs of top of the line skates for around $100 shipped off these sites.

 

[psulion22 402]

14 hours ago, puckpilot said:

At least one LHS in my area will exchange skates that have been baked and sharpened AND skated on within the first 30 days as long as they're unblemished. I did it last Christmas because the skates were giving me lace bite.

I'm sort of in the middle on this. I can understand that etailers side of things, but at the same time, they should train their staff to instruct people that there are ways for a person to figure out their size at home to a decent degree of accuracy, and have them do that before locking down that sale, especially the second time. I mean HM had two shots at getting the man into a proper fitting skate, and they missed both times. If they did that, you'd think they'd try to work with the guy to come to some sort of solution/compromise instead of trying to blow him off. 

I mean how about take them back as sort of consignment and put them up on their clearance section at a discount, with the stipulation that he only gets back what they can sell them for. Yes it may be a bit of a hassle on HM part, and yes, hecould do it himself, but it's probably easier for HM to move something than a private person. I mean isn't part customer care is, going out of your way to make a customer happy?.  

 

 

At the very least they should be making it abundantly clear to someone who is looking for sizing advice that baking and sharpening the skates will void any returns, especially the second time.  Using true measurements rather than sizes and comparisons would certainly be a better way of doing things.

But we also don't know what the interaction looked like.  Was there feedback given both ways, especially the second time?  If so, how accurate and informative was that feedback?

[IPv6Freely 2082]

Okay so this thread is just going in circles. At this point it doesn’t matter who was at fault (for the record it was you) and HM going against their policy isn’t going to happen. So moving on from the past... you’re needing new skates that fit.

Okay, the people on MSH can assist you to a degree (if x doesn’t fit you then y might) but realistically they can’t do much more than the 16 year old kid manning HM’s chat software. So no matter how many times the conversation is going to circle around, the simple fact remains that you’re not going to get fit properly without getting to a store and having somebody who knows what they’re doing to help you. 

You might get lucky and find something eventually, but it’s likely you’ll just continue to be disappointed. Do it right the first (or in this case the third) time. 

[jpeaslee 30]

14 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

Looking for quality information.  And is the jet speed the same.  I am gathering this is a high end skate from a few years ago. 

Having been though a very similar situation recently myself, you really have to try some stuff on.  I took advantage of ice warehouses free skate return policy for IW members.   I ended up ordering at least 8 pair of skates to finally find what worked best for me. Much of what I read about the fits of different models and brands were true, but the shape of the toe cap was not accommodating, or the heel just didn't lock right, etc.

You can order new pants online, but at the end of the day, it's up to you to make sure they fit before you take off the tags, not the guy that said " Oh, so you measured a 36" waist and a 30" inseam, then these should fit."

[Playmakersedge 58]

Going to the closest thing close to a lhs : big box store . From what I'm hearing each model in each brand has a different sizing.  And each brand has different sizing.    

So it sounds like much of what I get advised on is subject to the knowledge of the person i am speaking to .  

Correct me if I don't have this right:  they are going to measure my foot it the metal thing standard for shoe fitting, then use that to make a determination of what skates to have me try ? 

Or does each brand and models with in that brand have it's own measuring scale  ?

This deal with a size not really being a size I don't understand how or why this is ?    

I mean if I need a 1/4" drill bit I buy one it's a 1/4"  I don't have to think oh craftsman I have to buy 3/16 drill because that's a 1/4" in there sizing.     A size is a size is the way it should be .  

[Playmakersedge 58]

1 minute ago, jpeaslee said:

Having been though a very similar situation recently myself, you really have to try some stuff on.  I took advantage of ice warehouses free skate return policy for IW members.   I ended up ordering at least 8 pair of skates to finally find what worked best for me. Much of what I read about the fits of different models and brands were true, but the shape of the toe cap was not accommodating, or the heel just didn't lock right, etc.

You can order new pants online, but at the end of the day, it's up to you to make sure they fit before you take off the tags, not the guy that said " Oh, so you measured a 36" waist and a 30" inseam, then these should fit."

I think that the person that advised you or company shares in the fault  . Not a 100% no but they were a contributing factor  .   

[Kgbeast 195]

10 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Going to the closest thing close to a lhs : big box store . From what I'm hearing each model in each brand has a different sizing.  And each brand has different sizing.    

So it sounds like much of what I get advised on is subject to the knowledge of the person i am speaking to .  

Correct me if I don't have this right:  they are going to measure my foot it the metal thing standard for shoe fitting, then use that to make a determination of what skates to have me try ? 

Or does each brand and models with in that brand have it's own measuring scale  ?

This deal with a size not really being a size I don't understand how or why this is ?    

I mean if I need a 1/4" drill bit I buy one it's a 1/4"  I don't have to think oh craftsman I have to buy 3/16 drill because that's a 1/4" in there sizing.     A size is a size is the way it should be .  

Hockey Skates are sized in Canadian shoe sizes which is 1.5 sizes less than US. All hockey skates today are following that basic standard. However unlike regular shoes, skates are made a bit different. Toebox shape, heel shape affect how far your toes can go in the toe-box and how far your heel can go in the back of the skate. That creates a variance between manufacturers (more notable in toebox shape) as well as within the models of the skates within the same manufacturer (most notably in heel pocket design). To add to the complication, each line of skates is made for specific common variance of the foot shape. For example so feet have high instep, some have low, some are wider in the front and some are more or less uniform front to back, some have wider heel, some have narrow heel. So yes, the skates sizing is not the same as drill bits. 

Add to that, certain lines from 10+ years ago were made for narrow feet, today are made for higher volume feet. For example Reeboks were made for more or less average feet, but rebcors (reebok replacement) is made for narrow, low volume feet. RBZs were for huge feet, JetSpeeds (not really RBZ replacements, but some might go that route) are low volume, narrow.

Come to think of it. I believe (could be wrong) that Bauer Supreme 3000 from 10+ years ago were made for narrow feet with medium instep, while the CCM Tacks 3052 aare made for deep instep, wide feet. So you getting EE in Tacks 3052 hoping to get similar feet as Supreme 3000, is probably en effort destined to a failure. Your best bet is to go to one of the big-name stores that have Bauer 3D scanner thing in and figure out what is your todays skate of choice should be. Then you can see if you can afford it or look for something cheaper with similar feet. Going off 10 years old skate is pretty difficult especially for a chat-chap who probably does not even know that there was such a thing as Reidel hockey skate.   

 

[sheffy92 3]

3 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Going to the closest thing close to a lhs : big box store . From what I'm hearing each model in each brand has a different sizing.  And each brand has different sizing.    

So it sounds like much of what I get advised on is subject to the knowledge of the person i am speaking to .  

Correct me if I don't have this right:  they are going to measure my foot it the metal thing standard for shoe fitting, then use that to make a determination of what skates to have me try ? 

Or does each brand and models with in that brand have it's own measuring scale  ?

This deal with a size not really being a size I don't understand how or why this is ?    

I mean if I need a 1/4" drill bit I buy one it's a 1/4"  I don't have to think oh craftsman I have to buy 3/16 drill because that's a 1/4" in there sizing.     A size is a size is the way it should be .  

I just read this whole post and now mind you I have plenty of things I want to say to you but I won't... you literally need to go to a HOCKEY STORE and TRY ON skates. The staff at the store will measure your foot or hell even get your foot scanned by the Bauer 3D scanner if the store has one. I seriously hope you don't buy any skates online again as you have no clue what skates work for you and YOU STILL DON"T KNOW YOUR OWN SIZE yet for skates. 

[puckpilot 312]

1 hour ago, Playmakersedge said:

Going to the closest thing close to a lhs : big box store . From what I'm hearing each model in each brand has a different sizing.  And each brand has different sizing.    

So it sounds like much of what I get advised on is subject to the knowledge of the person i am speaking to .  

Correct me if I don't have this right:  they are going to measure my foot it the metal thing standard for shoe fitting, then use that to make a determination of what skates to have me try ? 

I think the simplest way to think about things is every brand and model fits different, so when you got into a store, don't worry about the numbers. Just pay attention to how your feet feel when you lace them up and zero in on the right size based on that feel. If the skates don't feel right off the ice, then they won't feel right on the ice.

Maybe this will help. Here's a skate sizing chart and a video on how to find your own skate size using that chart at home. Obviously there's a margin for error, but it should get you within half a size. From my experience, these are correct for current Bauer skates. I used it to double check my sizing for my current skates before purchase. Obviously, you still have to try on skates to find the best fitting model/brand.

 

I would strongly recommend you size yourself before going into a big box store, because I've had incorrect advice given to me in chain stores. For example, I was sized as a 4.5 at a LHS. This size is correct. But then, when I went to try on skates at a chain store, they sized me up as a 6, not because they were incompetent, but because their measuring tool was flat out wrong. The same thing happened with my nephew at the same chain. They sized him at least a size too big.

Yes, finding the right fitting skates can be a pain in the ass, so you have to be patient and try everything you can get your foot into. If you're not sure, don't make a snap decision. Come back another day and try them on again.

Hopefully some of this helps. I wish you the best of luck on finding the best skates for you.

 

[bondoao1 8]

On 11/13/2017 at 8:30 AM, Davideo said:

Unless you you know for certain exactly what size and model fits you, I would strongly recommend going to a hockey shop in person. I tried ordering through the Internet after not buying skates in about 12 years, but eventually I had to bite the bullet and drive 4 hours to the nearest hockey shop to try on a few different models and sizes.

Same here, I was out of the game for 10 years and tried to order a pair of Bauer Nexus in the same size I used back then, and they were too wide. I delt with it for a year while I saved up for a new pair, then drove an hour to the closest hockey shop to me and tried on every pair of skates they had in my price range, and bought the best fittings skates. 
I walked into the store with my eyes on Bauer Supremes (being that I only skated on Bauer before that) and I ended up with CCM Ribcore. They just fit me better and I've been skating on them for a year and I have had no issues with them. 
I will never buy skates without trying them on again. 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

1 hour ago, Kgbeast said:

Hockey Skates are sized in Canadian shoe sizes which is 1.5 sizes less than US. All hockey skates today are following that basic standard. However unlike regular shoes, skates are made a bit different. Toebox shape, heel shape affect how far your toes can go in the toe-box and how far your heel can go in the back of the skate. That creates a variance between manufacturers (more notable in toebox shape) as well as within the models of the skates within the same manufacturer (most notably in heel pocket design). To add to the complication, each line of skates is made for specific common variance of the foot shape. For example so feet have high instep, some have low, some are wider in the front and some are more or less uniform front to back, some have wider heel, some have narrow heel. So yes, the skates sizing is not the same as drill bits. 

Add to that, certain lines from 10+ years ago were made for narrow feet, today are made for higher volume feet. For example Reeboks were made for more or less average feet, but rebcors (reebok replacement) is made for narrow, low volume feet. RBZs were for huge feet, JetSpeeds (not really RBZ replacements, but some might go that route) are low volume, narrow.

Come to think of it. I believe (could be wrong) that Bauer Supreme 3000 from 10+ years ago were made for narrow feet with medium instep, while the CCM Tacks 3052 aare made for deep instep, wide feet. So you getting EE in Tacks 3052 hoping to get similar feet as Supreme 3000, is probably en effort destined to a failure. Your best bet is to go to one of the big-name stores that have Bauer 3D scanner thing in and figure out what is your todays skate of choice should be. Then you can see if you can afford it or look for something cheaper with similar feet. Going off 10 years old skate is pretty difficult especially for a chat-chap who probably does not even know that there was such a thing as Reidel hockey skate.   

 

As a Canadian... what is a Canadian shoe size?

[Stewie 721]

8 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

As a Canadian... what is a Canadian shoe size?

theres no such thing. Canada and the US use the same shoe scale.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

2 minutes ago, Stewie said:

theres no such thing. Canada and the US use the same shoe scale.

That’s why I’m confused.

[Stewie 721]

Just now, IPv6Freely said:

That’s why I’m confused.

I think the real reason the skate size is different is mostly just based on how you want the particular items to fit, since the size is based on the length of the last. a running shoe, you want your foot to splay out and some room in the toe box, if your feathering, you will be uncomfortable and likely getting some chafing from the wear. A hockey skate, you want to feather, you want an anchored in performance fit.

[Kgbeast 195]

2 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

That’s why I’m confused.

https://www.hockeymonkey.com/bauer-hockey-skate-sizing-chart.html

...ask them, I kind of go with HM knows what they are talking about thing too...

[Kgbeast 195]

I want to see a "facepalm". This thread needed it about two days ago.