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DarkStar50

The CT Edge Blade

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Because what is the biggest reason why people don't go shallower? Think about the 250 lb guy who swears by a 3/8". They aren't strong enough on their edges to trust them, so they need a crutch. Something like this would allow them to get more straightaway glide while maintaining the same bite during turns.

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Because what is the biggest reason why people don't go shallower? Think about the 250 lb guy who swears by a 3/8". They aren't strong enough on their edges to trust them, so they need a crutch. Something like this would allow them to get more straightaway glide while maintaining the same bite during turns.

Exactly.

Although, weren't the rumors that Al "The Planet" Iafrate (big dude) used a very deep hollow and that it, in part, led to his knee problems?

If you're a bigger dude, you likely want shallower because your weight is already making you sink deeper into the ice. This affects straight away speed detrimentally.

However, the extra edge does help you corner more effectively.

So, it's a trade off. If the system works as they say it does, you could have the best of both worlds.

Now, I haven't been following the thread and have more to do with my life than read the last 4 pages of posts so I don't know if someone has asked the question yet or not, but will the wider blade negate the benefits of a shallower hollow from a speed perspective? I mean, if it's wider, won't there be more drag?

Plus, the wider blade might be weird on striding and crossing over. But I would think you could get used to that.

By the way, anyone know just how much wider we are talking here?

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I am sorry but I do not follow that. The bottom of the hollow does not touch the ice, even in straight forward skating. You are ALWAYS on one edge or the other when you are moving. If you TRY to skate on both edges at a time, you will notice that your skates just wooble back and forth picking up one edge, then the other. So everyone naturally uses one edge at a time, anything else is unnatural. So if you can get the same bite angle with the flared blade or without the flare, how do you think there will be less drag skating forward?

Maybe you are right, but I just do not understand the concept.

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after reading thinking a little bit more about this, will the flared blade change the length it will take to "get over" onto the edge?

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I am sorry but I do not follow that. The bottom of the hollow does not touch the ice, even in straight forward skating. You are ALWAYS on one edge or the other when you are moving. If you TRY to skate on both edges at a time, you will notice that your skates just wooble back and forth picking up one edge, then the other. So everyone naturally uses one edge at a time, anything else is unnatural. So if you can get the same bite angle with the flared blade or without the flare, how do you think there will be less drag skating forward?

Maybe you are right, but I just do not understand the concept.

I was thinking that there'd be more surface area exposed to the ice, but reading what you wrote perhaps you're right - at least, it certainly seems sensical the way you describe it.

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The way I see it:

Suppose you have a shallow hollow and have the blades perpendicular to the ice (efficient glide). Even if you are only on either the outside or inside edge, you have more surface area, so you can get more "float" over the ice instead of digging deeper into it.

Once you lean the blade over, there is a smaller angle on the edge (sharper edge) digging into the ice. So, it goes deeper, and you can turn tighter.

------------

I think it's like when that New Zealand (?) boat in the America's Cup intro'd the winged keel. At high lean angles, the winglets are vertical and let the boat take more sail without drifting off course.

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You know what would make a lot of sense? Make the flared part out of carbide, and weld it to the steel runner body. Thay way you would just replace the blades every 6 months to a year, and never have to go to the sharpener!

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Ktang, interesting point. But, I am not sure that more blade contact with the ice = less friction. I looked around the internet a little, and basically ice skates work this way:

1) A very small surface area (the skate blade edge) supports a 200 lb hockey player on the ice while skating. All of his weight is put on this edge, so the amount of pressure on the ice in PSI is very high.

2) Ice has the odd property that when you put high pressure on it, it melts.

3) So, what you are really doing is skating on a very thin layer of water. That is what allows you to glide. If you make the blade edge geometry so that there is more metal touching the ice, now you have less pressure per square inch, and the ice will not "melt" as well.

So, the science seems to say that a sharper edge or higher bite angle, or whatever you want to call it has less friction. This is because you are distributing the skaters weight over a smaller surface area, so the PSI is higher.

I actually found some info on a new skate blade that has a battery operated heater in it, and some (including Gretzky) said it skated with less friction!

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biff44:

I agree with your 3 points.

However, where I differ is in the conclusion. The way I see it: if you have a higher bite angle, you have more PSI (smaller surface area), so you cut deeper into the ice. This gives you less glide (you are displacing more ice by cutting deeper; that energy to cut deeper comes from slowing you down), but gives you better grip. I think...

This is verified by skaters' being able to glide better on flatter hollows. I think that speed skaters don't have any hollow at all.

Also, ice remains slippery even with a very large surface area, e.g. the bottom of a pair of shoes, so you don't have to make a sharp edge in order to create the pressure needed to form the quasi-fluid.

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Ktang, interesting point. But, I am not sure that more blade contact with the ice = less friction. I looked around the internet a little, and basically ice skates work this way:

1) A very small surface area (the skate blade edge) supports a 200 lb hockey player on the ice while skating. All of his weight is put on this edge, so the amount of pressure on the ice in PSI is very high.

2) Ice has the odd property that when you put high pressure on it, it melts.

3) So, what you are really doing is skating on a very thin layer of water. That is what allows you to glide. If you make the blade edge geometry so that there is more metal touching the ice, now you have less pressure per square inch, and the ice will not "melt" as well.

So, the science seems to say that a sharper edge or higher bite angle, or whatever you want to call it has less friction. This is because you are distributing the skaters weight over a smaller surface area, so the PSI is higher.

I actually found some info on a new skate blade that has a battery operated heater in it, and some (including Gretzky) said it skated with less friction!

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/index.php?sh...=0entry252580

No you're wrong about the pressure idea. The blades' pressure lower the melting point of ice by .03* F, so that's not what creats the water layer on which you glide. You do glide on a layer of water, but it isn't created by the blades' pressure. It is either created by friction from the blades, which heats the ice, or the quasi-fluid layer of ice, or both..

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Ktang, interesting point.  But, I am not sure that more blade contact with the ice = less friction.  I looked around the internet a little, and basically ice skates work this way:

1)  A very small surface area (the skate blade edge) supports a 200 lb hockey player on the ice while skating.  All of his weight is put on this edge, so the amount of pressure on the ice in PSI is very high.

2)  Ice has the odd property that when you put high pressure on it, it melts.

3)  So, what you are really doing is skating on a very thin layer of water.  That is what allows you to glide.  If you make the blade edge geometry so that there is more metal touching the ice, now you have less pressure per square inch, and the ice will not "melt" as well. 

So, the science seems to say that a sharper edge or higher bite angle, or whatever you want to call it has less friction.  This is because you are distributing the skaters weight over a smaller surface area, so the PSI is higher.

I actually found some info on a new skate blade that has a battery operated heater in it, and some (including Gretzky) said it skated with less friction!

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/index.php?sh...=0entry252580

No you're wrong about the pressure idea. The blades' pressure lower the melting point of ice by .03* F, so that's not what creats the water layer on which you glide. You do glide on a layer of water, but it isn't created by the blades' pressure. It is either created by friction from the blades, which heats the ice, or the quasi-fluid layer of ice, or both..

Ice melts at higher temperatures as pressure is increased. Ktang is right: the pressure (mass over surface area) applied to the ice surface has the local effect of melting the ice.

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I made a thread about this earlier, couldn't find it. whoops.

Anyways, I guess Robyn Regehr has been using this steel for 7 years now and there going to push NHL teams this summer to test it on their players.

Has anybody actually used this steel yet ?

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I have one customer who has them, he's friends with the owner. The last time I spoke with CT was over a year ago and they were trying to get a major manufacturer to make a deal to put them on their skates. Haven't heard anything since. They are still not avail for general sale yet. The customer's kid loves them. He skates on a 2" hollow, yes, 2". Still has plenty of grip, yet awesome speed.

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A guy on my team has a prototype pair from the owner, he is probably the top 3 skaters in our whole league, he says you can get much lower with this steel on turns, I've been trying to steal em so I can show you guys :P

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If i recall correctly from first year chemistry, pressure exerted on ice from the weight of the skater has nothing to do with melting ice and generating glide. The pressure required to melt the ice far exceeds any humanly possible exerted force. I forget what the exact amount of force required is but either way, the average skater cannot generate it.

The real reason as my prof explained is just the nature of substance (steel in this case) interacting with the ice. It just causes it to be frictionless. It's called phenomena for a reason.

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I am interested in the CT Edge Blade concept but I can't access the website through the link nor can I find it anywhere on the web. It just brings me to a godaddy.com site, can anybody help me to view the ctedge.com website?

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I read an article on it from years ago then decided to google it, brought me to this site. I understand the hesitance to bring it to hockey but I have a much more suitable use for this blade

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thought of a similar concept, stumbled upon this page, digging the thread back...

if Anyone has any info on CT Edge and people that could be related to them, I'd be very interested.

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