Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[hockeydad3 50]

Hello all. I seem to be having a problem with my xo2. It is always on the inside edge of the right skate and the outside edge of the left skate. I put the skates in the same way all the time and it happens to just about all the skates. There is a spot on the blade about 3 inches that doesn't get the same edge as the rest of the skate. If I do the nail drag against the blade the whole blade is sharp except for that spot. It is not just my skates ,but other skates also. I am leaning towards it being something with the holder. I have the older style holder.

Any one have any ideas or ways to fix it.

Thanks...

Dave

Hello,

that sounds like the holder is not level. There is a nice explanation on the wissota-homepage in the section "Understand skate sharpening", "3-D Three Dial Skate Holder Set-Up and Maintenance".

I think that the rear dial is too low.

[daveb 1]

I will check that out ,but am not sure that's it. I forgot to mention that it is in the middle to back part of the blade . So the front ,middle and all the way at the end have a great edge . There is a portion between the middle and the end that is not getting the same edge.

[All Flash 49]

Blades themselves kinked or bent/warped?

[mnpucker 33]

Check to see if the outsole on the left skate is contacting your holder. Contact will torque the boot up a bit taking it out of level. Wider skates do not play nice with the holder. I have to mount the skate instep down on wider or bigger skates to avoid contact.

[chiefs17 2]

Check to see if the outsole on the left skate is contacting your holder. Contact will torque the boot up a bit taking it out of level. Wider skates do not play nice with the holder. I have to mount the skate instep down on wider or bigger skates to avoid contact.

This is very true. I had a pair of Graf's that were a real pain to sharpen because of it. Goalie skates can be tough too. In my experience though, if the boot was touching the holder it would torque the whole boot and give you an uneven edge for the whole length of the blade. Not just one spot.

Hello all. I seem to be having a problem with my xo2. It is always on the inside edge of the right skate and the outside edge of the left skate. I put the skates in the same way all the time and it happens to just about all the skates. There is a spot on the blade about 3 inches that doesn't get the same edge as the rest of the skate. If I do the nail drag against the blade the whole blade is sharp except for that spot. It is not just my skates ,but other skates also. I am leaning towards it being something with the holder. I have the older style holder.

Any one have any ideas or ways to fix it.

Thanks...

Dave

Since it happens to all skates, it's definitely something to do with your holder, not the skates.

Which direction (toe first or heel first) are you putting your skates in the holder so we can get an idea if it's too low or too high in that one spot?

I would strongly suggest upgrading the holder to the newer style, but that's an opinion, and you shouldn't be having this problem, even with the old holder.

Is the bad spot right where the holder is pushing on the blade? Maybe it's tightened too much causing a little bow in the blade. Let us know what you find.

[daveb 1]

Hello,

that sounds like the holder is not level. There is a nice explanation on the wissota-homepage in the section "Understand skate sharpening", "3-D Three Dial Skate Holder Set-Up and Maintenance".

I think that the rear dial is too low.

Well what do you know. Thanks for the info on wissotas site.

I had set my machine up (bought used) based on blackstones reccomendations. It seems that the clamp part of the holder might have been tweaked a little. Whe I set it up with a square like wissota says the holder was off.

I fixed it and ran a pair of skates through and it was on the money. The blades checked out square and I had a good edge all the way.

I hope thats the issue. I will do my regular skates tomorow.

Thanks for the the heads up

[nunavut 2]

Hi All,

Have a question and not sure if anyone else has come across this. I have 4 FBV spinners, 90/75, 90/1, 100/50, and 100/75. I have been mostly sharpening with the 90/75 until my 11 year old started losing his edge in high speed drills, so I talked to blackstone and they sent me a 90/1 as the next one up that would provide a little extra bite, the problem that came out is that the 90/1 has way to much edge and feels like you are on rails, but based on the chart it should have been the next progression. I then moved on to the 100/50 and it provided the best combination of edge and glide. Anyone else try any of the other spinners and had similar results with the 90/1? We skate on fairly hard ice and the list below is the blackstone word doc for comparisons.

Thanks

ROH FBV

5/16 = 100/1

3/8 = 100/75

7/16 =95/1

95/75

1/2=100/50

9/16

5/8 =90/1

85/1

3/4 = 90/75

85/50

95/50

85/75

1= 90/50

80/75

80/50

Edited October 11, 2014 by nunavut

[angeles 4]

Does anyone know where to find the "FBV-ROH comparison-" and the "FBV Tech Specs-Documents" on Blackstones new Homepage ?

Are there Informations about the specs of the A-Trap-Spinners and will they be available for the X-Series-Sharpener ?

Martin

Hi Martin,

I couldn't find any of the documents on the new site, but I did copy these from the site long time ago. Hopefully they're visible and hopefully they're what you were looking for.

I don' have a machine yet, but will hopefully be picking one up by the end of the year.

Cheers,

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/12/y8upa5yn

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/12/yvyjyju4

[Chadd 916]

Hi All,

Have a question and not sure if anyone else has come across this. I have 4 FBV spinners, 90/75, 90/1, 100/50, and 100/75. I have been mostly sharpening with the 90/75 until my 11 year old started losing his edge in high speed drills, so I talked to blackstone and they sent me a 90/1 as the next one up that would provide a little extra bite, the problem that came out is that the 90/1 has way to much edge and feels like you are on rails, but based on the chart it should have been the next progression. I then moved on to the 100/50 and it provided the best combination of edge and glide. Anyone else try any of the other spinners and had similar results with the 90/1? We skate on fairly hard ice and the list below is the blackstone word doc for comparisons.

Thanks

ROH FBV

5/16 = 100/1

3/8 = 100/75

7/16 =95/1

95/75

1/2=100/50

9/16

5/8 =90/1

85/1

3/4 = 90/75

85/50

95/50

85/75

1= 90/50

80/75

80/50

All of my guys that had bite issues with the 90/75 loved the 95/75.

[x-track 8]

.....there's a comparison chart sticker on most bauer skates' inner cardbox lid !

[jimmy 194]

Hi All,

Have a question and not sure if anyone else has come across this. I have 4 FBV spinners, 90/75, 90/1, 100/50, and 100/75. I have been mostly sharpening with the 90/75 until my 11 year old started losing his edge in high speed drills, so I talked to blackstone and they sent me a 90/1 as the next one up that would provide a little extra bite, the problem that came out is that the 90/1 has way to much edge and feels like you are on rails, but based on the chart it should have been the next progression. I then moved on to the 100/50 and it provided the best combination of edge and glide. Anyone else try any of the other spinners and had similar results with the 90/1? We skate on fairly hard ice and the list below is the blackstone word doc for comparisons.

Thanks

ROH FBV

5/16 = 100/1

3/8 = 100/75

7/16 =95/1

95/75

1/2=100/50

9/16

5/8 =90/1

85/1

3/4 = 90/75

85/50

95/50

85/75

1= 90/50

80/75

80/50

First, the ROH comparisons are not accurate, nor can be used as a direct crossovered to a specific FBV. The 100/50 is somewhere in the range of a 1/2 -9/16. We also did blind tests with the 90/1 and no one could tell any significant difference between that and the 100/50 or the 95/75. The 95/1 and 90/75 were however distinguishable in testing. I think Blackstone has put out too many spinners for the sake of just making spinners.

Edited October 13, 2014 by jimmy

[AfftonDad 88]

I agree with Chad. If I felt 90-75 didn't have enough bite I would have tried 95-75. I think it is GENERALLY best to tweak the first number within a fixed value for the second number. I would consider the second number the coarse adjustment and the first number the fine adjustment. There are of course overlaps, but the overlaps are too hard to quantify. If you FIX the second number, you will always know what kind of change you are going to get by changing the first number.

A loose analogy for those who are familiar with bicycle gearing would be that the second number is like which of the three chainrings you are using and the first number would be which cog of the rear cassette your are using. There are certainly overlaps, but generally you tweak by changing the rear cog within a particular chainring, not the other way around.

Edited October 13, 2014 by AfftonDad

[start_today 757]

Is it common for places that have the Blademaster BFD system to say that they have FBV? I skated on FBV for a while and liked it, and I know the store I initially got it from did a good job, they are just an hour drive away. I went to a big chain store nearby to get it done, and they told me they did FBV. I asked for 100/50 for me and 100/75 for my wife, and he said no problem. When I got them back, mine felt ok, not great, and my wife was really unhappy with how hers felt. When I took my wife's back, and asked for the 100/75 FBV, the kid gave me this dopey look while I repeated it a few times, then I said "it's sort of equivalent to the 3/8 ROH," thinking that maybe they use some in-house terminology. He talked to the other sharpener, and the second guy said "that's an X6." I wasn't familiar with the Blademaster system at all, and again assumed it was in-house terminology for FBV. Given his confusion, I should have just walked away, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he was new and just doing in-take and was learning the ropes.

So, long story aside, is it common for shops to misuse terms like that? I feel like I was intentionally mislead since multiple people at the store confirmed FBV, and the 1st guy confirmed my requested 100/50, 100/75 sharpenings, even though that's not technically what I received. From a little reading I've done, it seems like even though BFD copied FBV, it's not really a comparable product.

[adam14 182]

We offer both ROH and FBV at our store and it's a chain but with that comes the risk of someone not knowing how to sharpen properly

[All Flash 49]

Is it common for places that have the Blademaster BFD system to say that they have FBV? I skated on FBV for a while and liked it, and I know the store I initially got it from did a good job, they are just an hour drive away. I went to a big chain store nearby to get it done, and they told me they did FBV. I asked for 100/50 for me and 100/75 for my wife, and he said no problem. When I got them back, mine felt ok, not great, and my wife was really unhappy with how hers felt. When I took my wife's back, and asked for the 100/75 FBV, the kid gave me this dopey look while I repeated it a few times, then I said "it's sort of equivalent to the 3/8 ROH," thinking that maybe they use some in-house terminology. He talked to the other sharpener, and the second guy said "that's an X6." I wasn't familiar with the Blademaster system at all, and again assumed it was in-house terminology for FBV. Given his confusion, I should have just walked away, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he was new and just doing in-take and was learning the ropes.

So, long story aside, is it common for shops to misuse terms like that? I feel like I was intentionally mislead since multiple people at the store confirmed FBV, and the 1st guy confirmed my requested 100/50, 100/75 sharpenings, even though that's not technically what I received. From a little reading I've done, it seems like even though BFD copied FBV, it's not really a comparable product.

In my experience... Yes.

[wrangler 157]

Is it common for places that have the Blademaster BFD system to say that they have FBV? I skated on FBV for a while and liked it, and I know the store I initially got it from did a good job, they are just an hour drive away. I went to a big chain store nearby to get it done, and they told me they did FBV. I asked for 100/50 for me and 100/75 for my wife, and he said no problem. When I got them back, mine felt ok, not great, and my wife was really unhappy with how hers felt. When I took my wife's back, and asked for the 100/75 FBV, the kid gave me this dopey look while I repeated it a few times, then I said "it's sort of equivalent to the 3/8 ROH," thinking that maybe they use some in-house terminology. He talked to the other sharpener, and the second guy said "that's an X6." I wasn't familiar with the Blademaster system at all, and again assumed it was in-house terminology for FBV. Given his confusion, I should have just walked away, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he was new and just doing in-take and was learning the ropes.

So, long story aside, is it common for shops to misuse terms like that? I feel like I was intentionally mislead since multiple people at the store confirmed FBV, and the 1st guy confirmed my requested 100/50, 100/75 sharpenings, even though that's not technically what I received. From a little reading I've done, it seems like even though BFD copied FBV, it's not really a comparable product.

We've heard several stories like yours, where they don't even tell you, and pretend they gave you what you asked for. I seem to also recall stories where someone called a shop, and was told they had FBV, only to find that it was BFD, after driving there.

[pizzakid13 5]

First, the ROH comparisons are not accurate, nor can be used as a direct crossovered to a specific FBV. The 100/50 is somewhere in the range of a 1/2 -9/16. We also did blind tests with the 90/1 and no one could tell any significant difference between that and the 100/50 or the 95/75. The 95/1 and 90/75 were however distinguishable in testing. I think Blackstone has put out too many spinners for the sake of just making spinners.

i went from 9/16 to 100/50 and love it. good bite with good speed and very easy to slide sideways without any grabbing.

i find it hard to believe that the 1/2 ROH would compare best to 100/50. it was always too deep for me.

[AfftonDad 88]

i went from 9/16 to 100/50 and love it. good bite with good speed and very easy to slide sideways without any grabbing.

i find it hard to believe that the 1/2 ROH would compare best to 100/50. it was always too deep for me.

The thing that they are comparing in the charts is the edge angle. In other words, the angle of the fang at 100-50 is "the same" as the angle (at the edge) of 1/2" ROH. However, there are two other parameters that ARE NOT being (and can't be) compared... flat width and edge depth. For example 95-75 AND 100-50 both have the same edge angle and that edge angle would be roughly "the same" as 1/2" ROH. However, I think that most people who understand what the numbers mean would agree that there should be a difference in the way that 95-75 and 100-50 feel. Murray Wilson told me early on that you can't really put too much faith in those comparison charts because the comparison that they imply can't REALLY be made. He said the only reason they came up with them was because the shops insisted on having something to go by and to give someone just entering FBV a ROUGH idea where to jump in at.

Edited October 24, 2014 by AfftonDad

[pizzakid13 5]

ok

[chiefs17 2]

Is the only place to buy 4" grinding wheels for an X-01 still direct from Blackstone, or has someone found another source? Shipping 2 wheels to the US is $27.55. I feel like that's a rip off. I ship stuff to Canada occasionally and it doesn't cost anywhere near that much.

I thought I remembered someone mentioning a Minnesota Distributor.

Thanks.

[nunavut 2]

Good day, I had a question around centering the skate with the grinding wheel. I have attached a picture of my X01 which shows that Skate blade sits a little higher on the grinding wheel. I use the bat gauge and the calibration block and only use the front dials for getting equal edges. Is this correct or should I try and have the blade marks directly in the middle of the grinding wheel, which would mean touching the pitch wheel to lower the holder a little? Any thoughts?

Edited October 28, 2014 by nunavut

[AfftonDad 88]

Where the black mark ends up on the wheel is predominantly set by how high the arbor is that holds the wheel (and consequently how centered the wheel is relative to the center of the shape on the spinner). You can loosen the set screws (there are two of them, one in front of the other) in order to raise and lower the wheel. Be advised though that it is a tedious, trial and error process to center the wheel. And even when the wheel is centered relative to one spinner, there will be some variability from spinner to spinner and even on the same spinner depending on whether or not you put the markings up or down. The good news is, it doesn't really matter that the line be centered. If it is excessively too high or low (based on your picture, yours isn't) it can cause problems when doing thicker blades (for example goalie skates). If it is REALLY misaligned (for example the black line touches the top or bottom of the wheel, this would be a problem.

[sbecks72986 51]

Good day, I had a question around centering the skate with the grinding wheel. I have attached a picture of my X01 which shows that Skate blade sits a little higher on the grinding wheel. I use the bat gauge and the calibration block and only use the front dials for getting equal edges. Is this correct or should I try and have the blade marks directly in the middle of the grinding wheel, which would mean touching the pitch wheel to lower the holder a little? Any thoughts?

no your blade may not be centered of the wheel to get even edges it's the center of where the spinner leaves its shape on the wheel and in my experience it's different when you change spinner sizes I usually have to adjust the holder to the new spinner.

[AfftonDad 88]

I sent a guy who has only used ROH to the LHS yesterday to try FBV. I told him to try 90-75 (he's a big guy). He tells me that when he went to the shop and told the LHS guy that he wanted 90-75 the LHS guy said that he didn't know what that means. And this is an LHS that has been doing FBV as long as anyone. The guy eventually told the LHS guy 1/2" (since he didn't know any better). So now I don't know if he ended up with 1/2" ROH OR 95-75 FBV OR 100-50 FBV. That's not right.

[hockeydad3 50]

I don´t know if i have a problem with honing the blades after grinding or not.

I´m using the 220grit orange blackstone honing Stone with water. If i use an older stone the burrs are completely removed but the edge doesn´t feel very sharp. If i use a fresh stone the edges feel quite sharp but i can feel a little burr left when i use my thumbnail moving against the edge. Using the stones without water produces quite the same result.

How do you hone the skates ? What kind of stones do you use ? Do you use them dry or wet or with oil ?

Thanks