Graf Skates - Few NHL Players

[Reaper 0]

Ask Chelios why Graf is no good.

Ok, I'll bite. Why would Chelios say "Graf is no good?"

[Chadd 916]

Ask Chelios why Graf is no good.

Ok, I'll bite. Why would Chelios say "Graf is no good?"

A couple games after he switched to Graf he broke his foot when blocking a shot.

[colt45 0]

I think people like to put GRAF down because they do not put forth the marketing hype and all the BS that NikeBauerMicrosoft throws at the consumer, specifically the younger audience.... i mean go o any rink and how many kids are wearing Vapors???? 70%? Was watching my Arenas league team and of about 20 kids on the ice I'd say 15 of them were in Vapor

Personally I think all skates should be at least 85% black.

i think younger kids are less susceptible to marketing when it comes to skates. In my experiences, bauer/nikebauer have just simply made better skates.

My reasoning is this....when they are really young, the parents usually pick out the skates based on what the people at the LHS say, then by fit, and lastly by the kids input. When the kids get a little older, they may get sucked in by the marketing, but, assuming the parents are responsible, they make sure the skates are good enough, and that they fit well...and in the end, the kid doesn't always get the skate he wants because the parents have the $$

Then they get older, and they start to realize that gear needs to feel comfortable in order for them to perform. This is when marketing takes a back seat to performance. As kids get older and have the desire to win, they know that it's not about who has the newest skates. but who has the best skates, and how does that help them perform.

Think about it...if warrior made skates and continued using their current advertising, sure it might get a few people, but if the product sucked, there's no way it'd be successful.

so basically like i said, i think Bauer/nikebauer is successful with skates because of their build quality, fit, and performance

[Chadd 916]

I think people like to put GRAF down because they do not put forth the marketing hype and all the BS that NikeBauerMicrosoft throws at the consumer, specifically the younger audience.... i mean go o any rink and how many kids are wearing Vapors???? 70%? Was watching my Arenas league team and of about 20 kids on the ice I'd say 15 of them were in Vapor

Personally I think all skates should be at least 85% black.

i think younger kids are less susceptible to marketing when it comes to skates. In my experiences, bauer/nikebauer have just simply made better skates.

My reasoning is this....when they are really young, the parents usually pick out the skates based on what the people at the LHS say, then by fit, and lastly by the kids input. When the kids get a little older, they may get sucked in by the marketing, but, assuming the parents are responsible, they make sure the skates are good enough, and that they fit well...and in the end, the kid doesn't always get the skate he wants because the parents have the $

Then they get older, and they start to realize that gear needs to feel comfortable in order for them to perform. This is when marketing takes a back seat to performance. As kids get older and have the desire to win, they know that it's not about who has the newest skates. but who has the best skates, and how does that help them perform.

Think about it...if warrior made skates and continued using their current advertising, sure it might get a few people, but if the product sucked, there's no way it'd be successful.

so basically like i said, i think Bauer/nikebauer is successful with skates because of their build quality, fit, and performance

umm....no. The marketing has full impact just as kids start to get older. It continues to have an impact until about 40 or so when guys care more about tradition or cost than marketing. As a comparison to your point about skates, Easton made skates that sucked for a long time but people continued to buy them, mostly because of the pros using them and the marketing that they did.

[kovyperron5727 0]

Personally I think all skates should be at least 85% black.

I agree completely disagree on that. Right now I am debating between some all white Graf Supra 704's and the '07 9k whites. I love the white look on a skate

[farhanshak 1]

maybe i will throw my two cents into this conversation.

i believe Graf does not pay pros to wear thier skates so alot of pros wear them because of the fit of the skate.

along with refs as well, i wasnt too sure about refs getting them only because they are all black, but also because of comfort. Refs dont usually get line changes (shift breaks) and are on the ice the entire period. so i guess comfort and fit would be huge for refs.

I personally have tried Easton, Bauer, RBK, and CCM and also mission.

Aside from mission fuel 120XP's, my Graf 703's are the most comfortable skate i have ever had. they have lasted really well and have been great to me. THe 120XP, the 120AG and the graf skates i have found to have amazing heel lock. like crazy glue heel lock lol and the fit on them is amazing (a skate for every foot type). they are always however usually a tad heavier.

i always found that my bauers got eaten alive way before my grafs did.

just my two cents :D wouldnt it be awesome though if more pros (big names) wore grafs and more people bought them and then they didnt cost alot and then i woke up. ahhhhh crap!!!!!

[Chadd 916]

THe 120XP, the 120AG and the graf skates i have found to have amazing heel lock. like crazy glue heel lock lol and the fit on them is amazing (a skate for every foot type).

Oh the stories I could about that one....

[farhanshak 1]

THe 120XP, the 120AG and the graf skates i have found to have amazing heel lock. like crazy glue heel lock lol and the fit on them is amazing (a skate for every foot type).

Oh the stories I could about that one....

lol i have heard some stories about the mission skates too. alot of guys at shinny and on my team think i am crazy when i pull out the 120 XP's.

maybe i am one of the lucky ones...but i honestly love that my foot just sits in them and doesnt even move at all.

[DarkStar50 679]

umm....no. The marketing has full impact just as kids start to get older. It continues to have an impact until about 40 or so when guys care more about tradition or cost than marketing. As a comparison to your point about skates, Easton made skates that sucked for a long time but people continued to buy them, mostly because of the pros using them and the marketing that they did.

I think you are giving marketing way too much credit and product not enough credit. All the marketing in the world won't sell a bad product for very long. Easton continues and continues to throw marketing $ at their skates and their return on every $ invested in skate marketing is getting smaller and smaller for Easton. Only this coming holiday season have they even gotten around to trying a select skate launch. I feel sorry for the dealers who invested Easton booking $ on skates delivered in spring 09 only to see Easton throw out another skate. Kiss that $ inventory good-bye. Easton skates are the Ford Edsels of our time. However, they will never give up.

As for marketing having an impact up to age 40 in hockey? Cut that age in half. Teen-agers soak up marketing info. It is aimed at them. 20somethings are aware of it but don't use it as the source of information or inspiration to purchase, just a source of curiosity mainly. Gear whores will always be gear whores but how many 20something beer leaguers really care about marketing of hockey product. Not too many judging by the old battered beaten up skates I sharpen for the 20something beer leaguers.

[phunky_monkey 6]

I've just come out of Graf 727's (may go back into them, haven't tried my new skates on the ice yet), and they were definitely the most comfortable skates I've ever had. However, I think a lot of that can be attributed to the fit of the skate as before I started playing again recently I had no idea on different fits as the range here in Aus is limited to say the least.

From my experience I think they were quite well made, and held up really well for me. The only issue I had with them was that they were a touch long for me as I bought them from the states without trying them on. This was fine initially, but as I kept wearing them they broke in more and more over a 12 month period and eventually became a touch flexible in the ankles. I think it was Chadd who said that he also liked these skates, but the issue with them was that they never stopped breaking in and I'd agree.

I would however buy Grafs again for sure.

[epstud74 24]

Graf seems to do well at the adult rec level..Many of the older guys who have been playing for years and years are in Graf skates. Graf is pretty well represented here in the Twin Cities.

[phunky_monkey 6]

Same here. I'd say near on 30% of my Summer team last year were wearing Graf's.

[DEATHTRON 19]

I was a long time Graf wearer. The comments are spot on that the Graf's have failed to update themselves with modern technology. I will even argue that the G series of skates isnt even that much more advanced than the 7-series supra line (I have owned both). When I got Easton 1300c's for super cheap and 1500's for free, and FELT the performance difference, I knew I could never go back to Graf. I am now in custom one95's...they fit good, but I still miss some of the performance of the Eastons (Eastons did not last me long however).

Point being, if Graf had put out more "advanced" skates over the years they would probably be doing better in sales and market representation.

Zach

[mack 44]

I'm currently breaking a pair of 705s in. I'll go back to Graf on and off till I die.

[Chadd 916]

umm....no. The marketing has full impact just as kids start to get older. It continues to have an impact until about 40 or so when guys care more about tradition or cost than marketing. As a comparison to your point about skates, Easton made skates that sucked for a long time but people continued to buy them, mostly because of the pros using them and the marketing that they did.

I think you are giving marketing way too much credit and product not enough credit. All the marketing in the world won't sell a bad product for very long. Easton continues and continues to throw marketing $ at their skates and their return on every $ invested in skate marketing is getting smaller and smaller for Easton. Only this coming holiday season have they even gotten around to trying a select skate launch. I feel sorry for the dealers who invested Easton booking $ on skates delivered in spring 09 only to see Easton throw out another skate. Kiss that $ inventory good-bye. Easton skates are the Ford Edsels of our time. However, they will never give up.

As for marketing having an impact up to age 40 in hockey? Cut that age in half. Teen-agers soak up marketing info. It is aimed at them. 20somethings are aware of it but don't use it as the source of information or inspiration to purchase, just a source of curiosity mainly. Gear whores will always be gear whores but how many 20something beer leaguers really care about marketing of hockey product. Not too many judging by the old battered beaten up skates I sharpen for the 20something beer leaguers.

A lot of the 20 somethings I see still have lingering preferences that were fashioned by the marketing of their (recent) youth. As for being inspired by the current marketing campaigns, you are correct. The impact starts to peter out at about 20 or so.

Same here. I'd say near on 30% of my Summer team last year were wearing Graf's.

And I haven't seen a pair of Grafs in our beer league in at least two calendar years.

[yrhmblnr8r 69]

umm....no. The marketing has full impact just as kids start to get older. It continues to have an impact until about 40 or so when guys care more about tradition or cost than marketing. As a comparison to your point about skates, Easton made skates that sucked for a long time but people continued to buy them, mostly because of the pros using them and the marketing that they did.

I think you are giving marketing way too much credit and product not enough credit. All the marketing in the world won't sell a bad product for very long. Easton continues and continues to throw marketing $ at their skates and their return on every $ invested in skate marketing is getting smaller and smaller for Easton. Only this coming holiday season have they even gotten around to trying a select skate launch. I feel sorry for the dealers who invested Easton booking $ on skates delivered in spring 09 only to see Easton throw out another skate. Kiss that $ inventory good-bye. Easton skates are the Ford Edsels of our time. However, they will never give up.

As for marketing having an impact up to age 40 in hockey? Cut that age in half. Teen-agers soak up marketing info. It is aimed at them. 20somethings are aware of it but don't use it as the source of information or inspiration to purchase, just a source of curiosity mainly. Gear whores will always be gear whores but how many 20something beer leaguers really care about marketing of hockey product. Not too many judging by the old battered beaten up skates I sharpen for the 20something beer leaguers.

The marketing impact on a 40yo is from the money spent indoctrinating him when he was a 15yo. I know 40yo's who will never wear anything but Tacks, Bauers, Grafs, what have you.

I really wanted Grafs when I was younger. I didn't know as much about fit and materials as I do now (thanks MSH), I just wanted them. A lot of it was word of mouth and what the other kids were wearing but we were all sure that Grafs were the best skates, Tacklas were the best pants, Ferlands were the best gloves, etc. I bought some Ferland gloves years later because I had it in my head that they were the best. Brand loyalty can't be overlooked.

[DarkStar50 679]

My point was today's aggressive marketing campaigns have minimal effect on the 20, 30, 40 yo. I agree with you that once you realize what brand fits you, what you are comfortable in wearing on ice, that you have now developed brand loyalty. That seed was planted in the teen-age years, agreed. In essence, what each vendor is trying so hard to do is create their next generation of Bauer babies, Easton babies, RBK babies that will stick with the brand for life. That is why each rep that shows me his line, especially skates, is so eager to have my shop carry their youth and junior models. Get them started when they're young and hopefully, they will never switch brands. This is an area that Graf has dropped the ball in for a long time. Their junior skates have offered little to choose from for kids. So, who is to blame?

[epstud74 24]

And I haven't seen a pair of Grafs in our beer league in at least two calendar years.

Do you have a lot of dealers in Graf in your area? I've found that a lot of the better skaters in the beer/rec/adult leagues tend not to care about the latest skates on the market. I've seen some older guys rocking the Micron Megas or older CCM 652s and so on, yet can skate like the wind. I suppose if you're looking for a durable skate and a comfortable fit, I can see why some players opt for the Graf 705, 704, 709 and so on series. Granted, a lot of them have Tuuk holders installed. Easton does not seem to be a very popular skate, but the Vapors are overwhelmingly represented here as well. Anyone see a lot of guys still in their Bauer 6000/7000/8000s?

[Hans 0]

I see a ton of Grafs here in Edmonton probably due to the factory being 2 hrs away. I was also watching the local Midget team play before we did and it was 50% Graf and the rest a mixture. Now that could be because Proskate is a great shop and they push Graf alot.

Has for the eastons being a more advanced skate to the ultras, I didn't think so, I came from Eastons. My new grafs are the best skates I have ever owned and I had no break in pains either.

Now these are custom Grafs so I cannot compare to off the shelf.

[hamstercaster 2]

I have Grafs 625. Not the best and 2 years ago when I last played in them they were giving me blisters. I'll give them another try as I start back playing out in a week or so. I'll also be wearing different socks (Bauer skate socks) and see if this will make a difference when it comes to blisters. As a whole they are fairly confortable and performance wise, honnestly I don't know. I'm not the fastest or most agile player out there and have always used mid point skates or lower so I wouldn't know the difference right now. However, that being said, there is only one other guy besides me wearing graft at my stick and puck gang. There is a 40 player or so turnaround and most are wearing Bauers, then Reebok, Eastons and me and my friend with Grafs.. his Grafs are actually quite beaten up too... They are readily available and easy to find around here but they just don't have much of a following at all.

[Chadd 916]

And I haven't seen a pair of Grafs in our beer league in at least two calendar years.

Do you have a lot of dealers in Graf in your area? I've found that a lot of the better skaters in the beer/rec/adult leagues tend not to care about the latest skates on the market. I've seen some older guys rocking the Micron Megas or older CCM 652s and so on, yet can skate like the wind. I suppose if you're looking for a durable skate and a comfortable fit, I can see why some players opt for the Graf 705, 704, 709 and so on series. Granted, a lot of them have Tuuk holders installed. Easton does not seem to be a very popular skate, but the Vapors are overwhelmingly represented here as well. Anyone see a lot of guys still in their Bauer 6000/7000/8000s?

Four Graf dealers within a 30 minute drive of my house and only one shop in the area doesn't stock them at all. This area was a very strong CCM market 10 years ago, now it is very heavily Bauer with Easton second and CCM/RBK a very distant third.

[The Mafia Line 0]

I don't mean to jack this thread but I didn't want to start a new one so here goes. This is for the JRs and the Darkstars of the board and are sick at fitting skates and know what their talking about.

a few years ago I bought xxx's and got "poorly" fitted (I think) for them. I got an 8.5D. They felt alright, hurt in a few spots but were generally ok. It was only my second pair of skates and though they were a bit off I didn't really know better. I then found this shop that stretched the boot, did a pencil test and measured my foot. They put in this thin plastic insole and a grey superfeet (3mm) to raise my heel. It took away the lace bite and some pain I had on the side of my foot. Took about two skates to get used to 3mm+ raise but it was a great relief on my feet and I loved my skates for about 2 years. Now it's time to replace them.

While I was at the shop, they fitted me for Graf G3s and really pushed me on them hard saying it was the best fit for my foot and that bauer and ccm arn't what they used to be and RBK isn't good. When I was there I found out my left foot is 7.75 and my right foot is a 8.25. They said I should get an 8 and have one stretched a bit and the other have the space filled a bit.

I basically want to know what bauer skate has the closest fit to G3's? Are Grafs worth it? What is the pitch of graf G3 skate and what would change if I put LS2s on them? How have the 3mm lifts affected my ability to switch to bauers without the lift? My main thing is I want to have a boot that feels as great as possible and not change the pitch that I'm skating on now. I would go to the shop, but I feel like they are biased toward grafs that I feel I'm not getting a fair understanding of all my options and every other LHS around that I know are so bad, they know nothing.

I need a fair and balanced (not the fox news type) understanding about what my options are in this situation.

[duch 0]

I'm one of very few people in my hockey league that wears Grafs, namely the 735's. I find them to be a very good skate that perform admirably. My only beef is they are heavier than the my Eastons. I am also one of very few guys who love Easton skates. In my personal experience I really haven't found another skate that out performs my Easton composite skates on the ice so as you can see I have a paradox. The Eastons are every bit as comfortable as the Grafs but the durability issue then comes into play. If Graf designed a skate with Eastons performance level and Grafs durability they would be awesome for a guy like me, but like that's going to happen. Thats why I use the Grafs for league play and the Eastons for pickup. This allows me to get a little more durability out of both brands and I'm always in a comfortable skate. To tell you the truth though in an important game in the league playoffs I always go for performance so it'll be the Eastons I'm wearing.

[vek 0]

I think Graf makes an ok skate, but I personally won't be replacing them with another pair. The holders were installed way out of alignment, emails to Graf's customer service went unanswered, and (for me) the forward pitch of the cobras made for an impossible transition from 25 years of skating at a custom+ pitch. I eventually swapped out the holders which solved the alignment issue, but the whole saga was an annoyance.

At any rate, I don't think Graf does anything better than another manufacturer, so I wouldn't be pigeonholed by a shop employee into thinking that their aren't any other options which will perform and fit equally well if not better.

[TBLfan 25]

LOL. At least Graf didn't take your skates back, re-align the the holders and screw that up... Then refuse to warranty the skates because they "worked" on them.