Graf Skates - Few NHL Players

[duch 0]

I agree with vek. I find my Eastons just as comfortable as my Grafs. I guess it depends what your priorities are when you buy a skate. Don't misunderstand me, I love my Grafs but performance is important to me and I just haven't found another skate out there as nicely balanced and that react on ice as well as Easton composite skates. I even purchased them for my son for his new hockey season and he is twelve and he's already commented how much nicer they are on the ice than his old traditionally made skates. I would get another pair of Grafs in a second if they where priced right because they are a very good skate but after a lot of scuitiny over the past year and a half, I'm more than willing to sacrifice some durability to gain more performance on the ice. My next skates will be the Easton S-12's.

[gerrythegreat 0]

Grafs don't have a monopoly on well made skates.

Their technology lags far behind other companies, they're still focusing on traditional construction and only now starting to use more modern materials. Their thing is fit, not performance, and for NHL players who get their skates custom made anyway, it's not a big deal at all.

You do see a lot of NHL refs in them though, since many of them like the all black skate.

Also, I don't think they do player endorsements at all. They do seem to have a lot of players in their footbeds though.

http://www.grafcanada.com/hockey/pro_hockey_players.php

I have a friend who is a linesman in the NHL and he told me a few years ago that graf actually gave gifts ie. flat screen to refs that wore their skates.

[GrafPro55 0]

Grafs don't have a monopoly on well made skates.

Their technology lags far behind other companies, they're still focusing on traditional construction and only now starting to use more modern materials. Their thing is fit, not performance, and for NHL players who get their skates custom made anyway, it's not a big deal at all.

You do see a lot of NHL refs in them though, since many of them like the all black skate.

Also, I don't think they do player endorsements at all. They do seem to have a lot of players in their footbeds though.

http://www.grafcanada.com/hockey/pro_hockey_players.php

I have a friend who is a linesman in the NHL and he told me a few years ago that graf actually gave gifts ie. flat screen to refs that wore their skates.

Ha. Flatscreen. I wish I had a flatscreen.

[Hipster 5]

Ask Chelios why Graf is no good.

Oh c'mon. I've skated on the old CCM 652's he has worn for years and if he broke his footin a Graf, then guess what? He would have broke his foot in those particular CCM's. I guarantee it. And if he had been skating on Composite Eastons, he'd have cracked the composite either on that play or soon after. That may not have been a big deal for him, but it would be to someone who pays for their own skates on a normal salary.

Every skate has its positives and negatives.

[Hipster 5]

I was a long time Graf wearer. The comments are spot on that the Graf's have failed to update themselves with modern technology. I will even argue that the G series of skates isnt even that much more advanced than the 7-series supra line (I have owned both). When I got Easton 1300c's for super cheap and 1500's for free, and FELT the performance difference, I knew I could never go back to Graf. I am now in custom one95's...they fit good, but I still miss some of the performance of the Eastons (Eastons did not last me long however).

Point being, if Graf had put out more "advanced" skates over the years they would probably be doing better in sales and market representation.

Zach

Here's another perspective on new technology. Did you ever notice that the skate models that have lasted the longest and have been held in the highest regard usually got there because they performed day in and day out and lasted a long time? The old CCM Tacks, Bauer Supremes, Daoust 301 & 501, Micron Megas.....all old technology, but tremendous quality and durability.

Despite what some others have said they've experienced, My experience with Graf has been great and all the guys I play with (a pretty experienced bunch) have also had good experiences with the Grafs. We've seemed toall agree they are the logical heirs to the Daousts, Microns, 8090's, etc, etc.

The first time I ever heard complaints about Graf started, ironically, when they DID start using the "New Technology" in the soles of the 735. I have never had any quality or durability issues with any of the 700 series Grafs I've bought formyself and my son. (707, 709 & 705). All three pairs are still in good shape. As a consumer, I want to know what I'm getting and I know what to expect. No expensive suprises.

New Technology is unproven technology and some folks can't pay $500-700 bucks to do the long term product research for these companies.

Unless I'm getting paid to play with unlimited free custom gear, I think I'll let someone else be the technology guinea pig until I know what will perform AND last at a level consistent with their price. Just one guy's opinion.

[stick9 880]

Here's another perspective on new technology. Did you ever notice that the skate models that have lasted the longest and have been held in the highest regard usually got there because they performed day in and day out and lasted a long time? The old CCM Tacks, Bauer Supremes, Daoust 301 & 501, Micron Megas.....all old technology, but tremendous quality and durability.

All of which have been either updated or outdated.

Is it that the old school design is that much better or is the manufacturer unwilling to put forth the resources to update the design...makes you wonder. If you can design and produce a skate (or anything for that matter) using old school tech that is still relevant in today's market. They should be able to come up with something to complete with today's latest and greatest.

Sometimes you have to improve upon something even when it works. If for no other reason than keeping up with the Jones.

Hey, they still make some pissa laces... ;)

[DarkStar50 679]

I was a long time Graf wearer. The comments are spot on that the Graf's have failed to update themselves with modern technology. I will even argue that the G series of skates isnt even that much more advanced than the 7-series supra line (I have owned both). When I got Easton 1300c's for super cheap and 1500's for free, and FELT the performance difference, I knew I could never go back to Graf. I am now in custom one95's...they fit good, but I still miss some of the performance of the Eastons (Eastons did not last me long however).

Point being, if Graf had put out more "advanced" skates over the years they would probably be doing better in sales and market representation.

Zach

Here's another perspective on new technology. Did you ever notice that the skate models that have lasted the longest and have been held in the highest regard usually got there because they performed day in and day out and lasted a long time? The old CCM Tacks, Bauer Supremes, Daoust 301 & 501, Micron Megas.....all old technology, but tremendous quality and durability.

Despite what some others have said they've experienced, My experience with Graf has been great and all the guys I play with (a pretty experienced bunch) have also had good experiences with the Grafs. We've seemed toall agree they are the logical heirs to the Daousts, Microns, 8090's, etc, etc.

The first time I ever heard complaints about Graf started, ironically, when they DID start using the "New Technology" in the soles of the 735. I have never had any quality or durability issues with any of the 700 series Grafs I've bought formyself and my son. (707, 709 & 705). All three pairs are still in good shape. As a consumer, I want to know what I'm getting and I know what to expect. No expensive suprises.

New Technology is unproven technology and some folks can't pay $500-700 bucks to do the long term product research for these companies.

Unless I'm getting paid to play with unlimited free custom gear, I think I'll let someone else be the technology guinea pig until I know what will perform AND last at a level consistent with their price. Just one guy's opinion.

For the record, the life of Daoust 301/501 was not as long as you may be thinking it was. The Daoust boots featured all leather interiors, including the inside sole. Quickly, over time, if you sweat a lot and didn't pull the leather footbeds out to help the skates dry, the leather soles would dry out and rot. This was happening back when Tuuk holders broke often. Therefore, I did a lot of Tuuk holder repair on Daoust boots with rotted insoles. The first thing I always did was pull the footbed to check the condition of the leather innersole before promising that the holder repair was an easy fix. I saw plenty of 301s where the flat head copper rivets just came right through the insole. These innersole problems were what led to plastic innersoles. However, the new plastic innersoles would crack and cause the same problems as leather innersoles until they got it right.

While it is easy to think those old boots may have lasted a long time, their ability to perform depreciated rapidly. The boots may have lasted but not their guts and strength.

[Polarlight 0]

Why isn't the Ultra series recognized when Graf skates are described as "heavy" and of "old technology"? Ultras are of similar weight to "modern" skates. If I were in the NHL, Bauer would make me a Vapor that fits like a G70 Ultra. Since I'm not in the NHL, not paid by Bauer, and the G70 fits my foot so well, they're superior (for me) to Bauers or anything else I've found. I put LS2's and Step steel on (which adds 15 grams over LS2 steel), and I'm good to go.

I find it remarkable that Vapors just happen to be the perfect fit for 75% of all 15 year olds. Interesting that Graf doesn't make an Ultra skate (five choices) that fits those kids better. Also interesting that Bauer and CCM are doing all they can to reduce blade weight, but many of the game's best players are on relatively heavy Step steel (ask Paul Boyer of the Red Wings).

[DEATHTRON 19]

I was never arguing that Graf's could hold up (the 7 series line). However, the ultra g series (in my opinion) were not very light compared to the first round of the Easton's. I understand its not fair to compare the 2 as they use different materials and methods for construction, but still....ones like driving a formula race car, and ones like driving my old 940turbo wagon. There comes a point where the high end technology becomes more common and reliable.

This begs the question to me; Why would you be using outdated technology when there is better, proven technology out there? All things being equal, it would seem like cheating yourself. My one95's perform marginally better than my ultra G series did...but are holding up much better. They did cost more (retail vs. retail), but it was worth it.

If Easton could ever figure out how to make their current lines of skates durable without having to add on any extra layers, or extra material, they would be making a vastly better skate than most of the market in my opinion.

I remember blocking shots in graf...always hurt. Then I got the Easton's, and I never felt a thing. THEN there was the first time I blocked a shot with my one95's, it was like the scene from talladega nights all over again (where Ricky Bobby stabs himself in the leg).

Zach

[docar15 1]

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

[english15x 3]

I was never arguing that Graf's could hold up (the 7 series line). However, the ultra g series (in my opinion) were not very light compared to the first round of the Easton's. I understand its not fair to compare the 2 as they use different materials and methods for construction, but still....ones like driving a formula race car, and ones like driving my old 940turbo wagon. There comes a point where the high end technology becomes more common and reliable.

This begs the question to me; Why would you be using outdated technology when there is better, proven technology out there? All things being equal, it would seem like cheating yourself. My one95's perform marginally better than my ultra G series did...but are holding up much better. They did cost more (retail vs. retail), but it was worth it.

If Easton could ever figure out how to make their current lines of skates durable without having to add on any extra layers, or extra material, they would be making a vastly better skate than most of the market in my opinion.

I remember blocking shots in graf...always hurt. Then I got the Easton's, and I never felt a thing. THEN there was the first time I blocked a shot with my one95's, it was like the scene from talladega nights all over again (where Ricky Bobby stabs himself in the leg).

Zach

its all about fit to me. not technology. i went from bauer to easton to bauer to graf and havent really looked back, unless someone is going to give me 800 bucks so i can get a pair of custom one95's or x60's ill hang on to my grafs. end of story.

[OldNSlow 3]

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

They may be different legal entities but it seems to me that they share the same IP and construct the same boots. The only difference seems to be the customer service. In Canada it is "lean."

[raoul_duke2k 0]

kinda off topic at this point - I saw a pic of Fedorov using Ultras (maybe G5?) with LS holders with Metallurg this year. Interesting considering he's used Nike/Bauer forever. Maybe they are no longer a sponsor so he wears whatever he wants - I remember him being a Graf guy at the beginning of his career.

[OldNSlow 3]

kinda off topic at this point - I saw a pic of Fedorov using Ultras (maybe G5?) with LS holders with Metallurg this year. Interesting considering he's used Nike/Bauer forever. Maybe they are no longer a sponsor so he wears whatever he wants - I remember him being a Graf guy at the beginning of his career.

Back in Fedorov's early years, all the of the Russian superstars used Graf 703 skates. They had a sort-of suede outsole. I think that material was banned in Europe because of its toxicity.

[raoul_duke2k 0]

hah - toxic? I actually had a pair of those 703's, swiss made - sold them about 6 months ago.

[17D1998 1]

Interesting considering he's used Nike/Bauer forever. Maybe they are no longer a sponsor so he wears whatever he wants - I remember him being a Graf guy at the beginning of his career.

He had white Grafs when he played for the Ducks, Supra 605 I think.

[adam14 182]

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

They may be different legal entities but it seems to me that they share the same IP and construct the same boots. The only difference seems to be the customer service. In Canada it is "lean."

nah, Swiss is much better quality.

[chippa13 1844]

Interesting considering he's used Nike/Bauer forever. Maybe they are no longer a sponsor so he wears whatever he wants - I remember him being a Graf guy at the beginning of his career.

He had white Grafs when he played for the Ducks, Supra 605 I think.

Federov moving back to Graf skates was the beginning of the end for his Nike contract, as I recall.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Interesting considering he's used Nike/Bauer forever. Maybe they are no longer a sponsor so he wears whatever he wants - I remember him being a Graf guy at the beginning of his career.

He had white Grafs when he played for the Ducks, Supra 605 I think.

Federov moving back to Graf skates was the beginning of the end for his Nike contract, as I recall.

He also had a pair of black and purple grafs in his duck days with a 91 embroidered on them, and he wore Grafs for a time with Columbus before catching on with the Supreme One90 and One95s

[OldNSlow 3]

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

They may be different legal entities but it seems to me that they share the same IP and construct the same boots. The only difference seems to be the customer service. In Canada it is "lean."

nah, Swiss is much better quality.

That might be true for the 700 line but I don't see how the G line would be any different.

[Chadd 916]

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

They may be different legal entities but it seems to me that they share the same IP and construct the same boots. The only difference seems to be the customer service. In Canada it is "lean."

nah, Swiss is much better quality.

That might be true for the 700 line but I don't see how the G line would be any different.

It's not like poor QC is going to change from one model to the next.

[17D1998 1]

He also had a pair of black and purple grafs in his duck days with a 91 embroidered on them

Wow, do you have any pictures of that? ahah

[OldNSlow 3]

Graf Canada and Swiss Graf. Apples and oranges. Two completely independent legal entities.

I have a pair of Swiss 750 customs.

Graf Canada customer service in my experience was non-existent.

The campaign of being made in Canada by somebody who knows the game points to a 340lbs girl name Trish who knows how to use a sawing machine (no offense Trish).

What is left? Whatever works best for your feet.

They may be different legal entities but it seems to me that they share the same IP and construct the same boots. The only difference seems to be the customer service. In Canada it is "lean."

nah, Swiss is much better quality.

That might be true for the 700 line but I don't see how the G line would be any different.

It's not like poor QC is going to change from one model to the next.

I was refering to the materials.

[inno4000 0]

Found a pic of Fedorov.

http://visualrian.com/images/item/417269

[adam14 182]

on another note, I was looking at changing out the tongues on my S17s, if I contacted graf, would it be possible to get a set of ordinary felt tongues off them?