Talk of Coyotes moving?

[Thinkingjack 51]

That's no different than most other NHL, NBA or even MLB teams anymore. Very few teams have every game broadcast on free TV.

it wasnt free they had a contract to get their games broadcast, now its a little more difficult to see many of the games.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

it wasnt free they had a contract to get their games broadcast, now its a little more difficult to see many of the games.

I don't understand. Every NHL team is on cable TV, on a sports channel (Comcast/Fox Sports affiliate/MSG/NESN) in which you pay to get those channels, how is this situation different?

[Thinkingjack 51]

I don't understand. Every NHL team is on cable TV, on a sports channel (Comcast/Fox Sports affiliate/MSG/NESN) in which you pay to get those channels, how is this situation different?

local sports channels in cable, which we pay for, do not broadcast coyote games, even in the playoffs in previous years they would be having a game, and you couldnt see it because the channels that did it would play something stupid about the NFL and the upcomign season.

Its rare to turn on a cable channel even if you get the sports package and get a coyotes game in arizona. I got the FSN AZ package to get coyotes games and it was like a game every two weeks.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Interesting.

I do know that when Bill Wirtz owned the Blackhawks, they didn't show any games on TV (unless it was national) as he felt that people wouldn't attend if that were the case. Once he died and his son took over, they signed up with Comcast and started televising games.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Interesting.

I do know that when Bill Wirtz owned the Blackhawks, they didn't show any games on TV (unless it was national) as he felt that people wouldn't attend if that were the case. Once he died and his son took over, they signed up with Comcast and started televising games.

Good timing, Stanley Cup and all...

[chippa13 1844]

I watched a ton of Coyotes games on FSN AZ thru the NHL Center Ice package the last couple of seasons. My bet on playoff games that weren't broadcast on FSN is that they were being shown on Versus/NHL Sports Network and would therefore not on the local cable channel.

[wrangler 157]

Interesting.

I do know that when Bill Wirtz owned the Blackhawks, they didn't show any games on TV (unless it was national) as he felt that people wouldn't attend if that were the case. Once he died and his son took over, they signed up with Comcast and started televising games.

Bill and Art Wirtz wouldn't show home games on broadcast TV. We got some away games. As a result, when I was a kid I didn't realize that the Blackhawks had jerseys that weren't white. The first time I saw a friend's red jersey I had to ask what it was about. Of course, now, I think it's the best jersey in sports.

EDIT: I'm remembering now that in the 80s we had broadcast TV that needed a decoder box to unscramble the signal, and we got a lot of Blackhawks games on that. That, I think, was Sportschannel, and it moved to cable as that became more popular. It was eventually eaten by Comcast, though I have a vague recollection that it was purchased by Fox first.

[Chadd 916]

local sports channels in cable, which we pay for, do not broadcast coyote games, even in the playoffs in previous years they would be having a game, and you couldnt see it because the channels that did it would play something stupid about the NFL and the upcomign season.

Its rare to turn on a cable channel even if you get the sports package and get a coyotes game in arizona. I got the FSN AZ package to get coyotes games and it was like a game every two weeks.

That's odd, NHL.com used to have FSN AZ listed for almost every Yotes games over the last couple seasons.

Good timing, Stanley Cup and all...

Some would say that they only won because he died and his mismanagement was rectified.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Some would say that they only won because he died and his mismanagement was rectified.

Would not surprise me one bit.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Bill and Art Wirtz wouldn't show home games on broadcast TV. We got some away games. As a result, when I was a kid I didn't realize that the Blackhawks had jerseys that weren't white. The first time I saw a friend's red jersey I had to ask what it was about. Of course, now, I think it's the best jersey in sports.

EDIT: I'm remembering now that in the 80s we had broadcast TV that needed a decoder box to unscramble the signal, and we got a lot of Blackhawks games on that. That, I think, was Sportschannel, and it moved to cable as that became more popular. It was eventually eaten by Comcast, though I have a vague recollection that it was purchased by Fox first.

Yes, I should've specfied home games. His thought behind it was that if the games were readily available on TV, then nobody would attend, therefore he was "protecting" the STHs.

Didn't he have a pay service to watch games though?

[wrangler 157]

I don't really remember about pay service, other than cable, and the scrambled broadcast that had a monthly charge.

Once, in the late 60s, I remember watching a huge TV projection game with several hundred people. Maybe it was a playoff home game.

We heard that Art and Bill wanted to keep something just for the ticket buyers (especially STH), so they wouldn't make the home games readily available.

[Chadd 916]

Yes, I should've specfied home games. His thought behind it was that if the games were readily available on TV, then nobody would attend, therefore he was "protecting" the STHs.

It was more about protecting his booze sales. He couldn't sell concessions to people at home.

[chippa13 1844]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=429186

This should settle the speculation of the Coyotes heading north, well, at least until we start approaching that 5 year out clause that the new ownership group was able to negotiate with the City of Glendale. LeBlanc says all of the right things about keeping the Coyotes in Arizona long term but we'll see. If they struggle in years 3-4-5 then the rumours will run rampant all over again.

"What this franchise has not had over the past 12 years is they've never had that combination that I think you need to be successful in the majority of sports markets," LeBlanc said. "That is strong, stable ownership combined with at least the understanding that you have the potential of your franchise winning."

Where have I heard these words before?

[psh 25]

I've always pulled for the franchise. Maybe it's that Doan always seemed to be a good guy, maybe it's that I can't help but support underdogs. In any case, now it's time for Phoenix area hockey fans and businesses to prove that they can support a team.

[Chadd 916]

I give it a year or so until the countdown on the out clause starts with TSN

[chippa13 1844]

"You anti-dentite bastard!"

[hunterphfr 12]

If you follow any of the $$$$$ business of the NHL in Forbes, The Globe & Mail, The National Post or The Toronto Star, there is just no way the Coyotes can survive in Phoenix. It doesn't matter how stubbornly Bettman sticks to his plan of American expansion and placing teams in large US cities without hockey heritage based on population or whatever formula he uses. Financially the NHL is by and large pretty shaky and Forbes has a lot of good articles exposing just how touch and go many teams are south of the border. When I was growing up it was very difficult for the Canadian teams to make a profit. Thanks to a stronger dollar and the austerity measures put in place by Bettman all of the Canadian teams are in the black and Toronto and Montreal are the robber barons of the league. (There have been years where the Leafs made 3 times the profit of the Yankees on less than half the revenue). If you build it they will come just doesn't work at the NHL level. There's just too much money involved. SPHL teams have been somewhat successful in the south, but their operating cost is a fraction of that of an NHL team.

7 of the 11 most profitable teams are in Canada

It's estimated 18 of 30 teams (or 18 of the 23 US teams) lost money in 2011

Toronto, Montreal & New York in 2011-2012 season made 83% of the leagues revenue

American hockey rich cities like Chicago, Boston, Detroit and New York made money and Philly & Pittsburgh are in the area, that leaves everyone else running at a loss.

There are simply some markets that while they can make a profit over a short period of time with a good playoff run, they simply cannot be profitable over the long run.

Way down at the bottom of that financial mess are the Coyotes, with a rink in the middle of nowhere and a fan base that doesn't really exist.

[Chadd 916]

It was only a few short years ago that every team in Canada not named Toronto or Montreal was losing money hand over fist.

[chippa13 1844]

Way down at the bottom of that financial mess are the Coyotes, with a rink in the middle of nowhere and a fan base that doesn't really exist.

Read the quote from LeBlanc that I posted. He gets it, why doesn't anybody else?

[hunterphfr 12]

It was only a few short years ago that every team in Canada not named Toronto or Montreal was losing money hand over fist.

I mentioned that above in my post. But the dollar is even and Bettman has changed the rules. The current value of the Leafs is that of the bottom 7 teams combined. With the salary cap team expenditures are pretty fairly fixed and somewhat balanced, there is no payroll disparity such as baseball. The disparity of revenue is drastic. The Lightning in 2011 averaged almost 18500 (96.4%) fans per game. The Rangers averaged just under 18200. The average cost of a Lightning ticket was $38, 3rd lowest in the league and produced gate receipts of $23 million. The Rangers average ticket price was almost double and produced $95 million at the box office. The Lightning had great attendance and were slightly less than 5% of selling out on average, yet there revenue didn't even come close to their salary expenditures alone. Phoenix's tv ratings that season are listed at 10000 on local cable and Florida's at 3000, while Pittsburgh drew 100000. I'm not blaming Phoenix or their fans and I don't necessarily think Portland or Seattle are the solution. I'm just saying if you research the NHL and it's ongoing financial issues there are serious problems in many aspects of their business plan and model. One of the poster children for many of those problems happens to be Phoenix.

[hunterphfr 12]

Read the quote from LeBlanc that I posted. He gets it, why doesn't anybody else?

The Tampa Bay Rays have a great front office and put a tremendous product on the field. They have been one of the most frugal, consistent, successful and competitive upstarts in MLB over the last several years. They have also been one of the most poorly attended and the words contraction or departure are never too far in the background.

[chippa13 1844]

The Rays also rarely retain their top talent. Fans cannot build a bond with a merry-go-round roster.

Edit: I should add that their stadium is horrible.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

...and in a bad spot.

Far and away the worst place in MLB to watch a game.

[Souldriver 64]

Being a Yankee fan I have the displeasure of watching games broadcast from the trop. The broadcasts are horrific, they remind me of some of the games from the late 90s. Very dark looking and not enjoyable to watch.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

When I lived in FL I wouldn't go to Yankees games at the Trop because of that - just a stale atmosphere to watch a game.