FBV Unstable?

[makoskater 0]

OK, so I have a Blackstone X-02 and have been playing around with different FBV cuts. I have the following spinners (100/75, 100/50, 95/75, 90/75).

I started with the 90/75 and really liked it but thought I wanted a bit more bite so I first tried 100/50. Expecting it to grab more it ended up feeling like the skate would just wash out sideways if I was not on an edge. I thought maybe it is the shallow tooth (50) so I tried 95/75 and too me it was worse. If the skate is not on an edge it easily slides sideways. It caught me off guard a few times where I felt like I was going to fall. I called and spoke with Blackstone about my process and they could not find anything wrong with my sharpening technique. I use an HDI and I always make sure my edges are perfectly even and the edges are razor sharp.

Has anyone experienced this perpendicular instability? The 100/50 is supposed to have more bit and I could literally turn sides for a stop and keep sliding with what felt like hardly any grab. Now if I dig in at an angle it works, but I don't always skate that aggressively. It seems like the 90/75 I have is the only cut that feels stable when gliding.

Maybe it's just me needing to get used to it.

Any thoughts or experiences?

[Chadd 916]

I started with the 90/75 and really liked it but thought I wanted a bit more bite so I first tried 100/50. Expecting it to grab more it ended up feeling like the skate would just wash out sideways if I was not on an edge.

I'm confused, why would you expect the edges to bite if they were flat?

[makoskater 0]

Even though the skate is perpendicular to the ice there are still 2 sharp edges riding on ice. I would not expect my feet to slide side ways so easily. I would expect the two sides of the blade to keep me gliding straight and not fading sideways. There was another post a while back where a guy mentioned a similar thing and he felt it put his knee at risk (old MCL injury) so he went back to the ROH. Must just be me.

[Chadd 916]

Even with ROH, if you take your weight off your edges, there is little resistance to sideways movement. The physics of FBV may simply make it more noticeable than ROH.

[AfftonDad 88]

I know exactly the feeling you are talking about and I felt it when I first started sharpening on my X-01. I don't feel it any more. I don't know what specifically changed along the way that fixed it but I somehow fixed my technique and/or setup to make it quit happening. One of the things I know that I did change was switching from a cheap edge checker to the BR-100. Assuming the BR-100 is correct (which I believe), the cheap edge checker was WAY off. Another thing I changed was that I quit using the calibration block and "calibrated" my holder to be nominally "flat" on my own (the calibration block didn't produce good results for me). Another thing I found was that my size 10 CCM blade holder was actually making contact with the sharpening holder and canting the skate some. I fixed this by milling out my sharpening holder a little where it made contact but if this is your problem you can also fix it by just flipping the skate direction. Then again, it could just be that my technique improved. I NEVER feel that slipping anymore.

Incidentally, before I got my sharpener when I got my skates sharpened with FBV at the shop, I would sometimes get that feeling from the shop. In hindsight, I now attribute it to how much attention to detail the individual at the shop put into it (that can vary a lot from person to person).

[Hockeylife20 0]

The first time I tried this cut I was coaxed into it by my LHS raving its the new technology and I should give it a try. I tried it out and was doing the old familar power move posting up around a defenseman and i lost my edge and slamed into the ice hard. I hated this cut and never used it agian. As with all hockey advice there is a preference factor in that people are very supportive as to what they like and not to what they have tried and dislike. I tired this cut and felt that i did not hold my edges as well but noticed an acceleration difference in striaght skating up the ice. This was not for me and I will be stick with my 1/2 traditional cut for life. No Thanks to the FBV.

I suggest if you have the time and money trying out a few diffferent styles of the tradtional and FBV and see what you prefer.

[makoskater 0]

Thanks for the responses. Regarding technique, the frustrating thing is the last one I did for my self was with a fairly new set of blades. I spend 1/2 hour getting my HDI to read perfect evenness at 3 points on each blade. Edges felt razor sharp after all was done. 95/75. Slippage was terrible. I was practicing one foot edge drills and kept getting slippage transitioning between edges. My skating coach even notices it as commented that that should not be happening. I may just have to get used to it. Odd thing is the 90/75 is pretty good so I'll stay there until I figure this out.

[jazzyjoey 2]

I have an X-01 with 100/50 and 95/75 spinners. Also have a bat gage (which i no longer use) and a BR-100. As long as I have an even edge, I experienced no instability on FBV at all. It feels just like ROH, just a little quicker. I also regularly do sharpenings for 2 guys on my team. I've had no complaints at all. They can't even really tell the difference besides a bit less leg fatigue. However, I did have some issues using the bat gage+100/50 early on, and I could tell that the edges were uneven when skating on them. Maybe this is what you're experiencing?

[notquitedeadyet 13]

My son & I both experienced the same feeling while trying out FBV when it first came out. I was going elsewhere for the sharpenings to test it to see if it was worth building a system to use FBV spinners on my machines. While the edges were there when you cut, it was a little unnerving to have that "floating" feeling when you weren't on an edge, especially at speed. I remember back then there were many people commenting with that observation (mostly on other forums).

While I do think its something you eventually get used to, I found a shop that used BFD & really liked it. It seemed to have the have similar glide with more conventional feeling edges, so I eventually went with that system.

[makoskater 0]

I have an X-01 with 100/50 and 95/75 spinners. Also have a bat gage (which i no longer use) and a BR-100. As long as I have an even edge, I experienced no instability on FBV at all. It feels just like ROH, just a little quicker. I also regularly do sharpenings for 2 guys on my team. I've had no complaints at all. They can't even really tell the difference besides a bit less leg fatigue. However, I did have some issues using the bat gage+100/50 early on, and I could tell that the edges were uneven when skating on them. Maybe this is what you're experiencing?

I wish I could blame it on the edges being uneven, however, I ditched the bat gage and bought an HDI. I check the blade at 3 places until things read perfectly on the HDI. I even went to great lengths to make sure the holder was level at all three adjustable positions by using dial calipers.

Thanks for the input.

[Stanello 4]

I know this feeling as well. For me it feels like the heel starts washing out towards the outside randmly, even during a stride.

I used get my FBV done locally, and would only trust 2 guys to give me a consistant sharpening, any others (same machine) and I would get the washout feeling. I've been going with noicing sharpenings since the Mako steel became available, no issues at all now.

[SydNap 25]

Noicing does a great job. I felt the sort of "no edge" feeling when gliding for a few games, but 9 months now only using FBV from Noicing, and I won't let anyone else touch my blades.

[Levsauce 2]

fbv doesn't work properly on bauer fusion blades they just don't hold an edge properly, its a whole other story if you switch to ls3 or step steel or even blackedge or nitinol

[Chadd 916]

fbv doesn't work properly on bauer fusion blades they just don't hold an edge properly, its a whole other story if you switch to ls3 or step steel or even blackedge or nitinol

The guys with fusion blades that I sharpen for have no problems at all.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

fbv doesn't work properly on bauer fusion blades they just don't hold an edge properly, its a whole other story if you switch to ls3 or step steel or even blackedge or nitinol

I think what he means is compared to other blades sharpening on Fusion does not last. FZBV or ROH the hollow does not last as it does with better quality steel.

[Levsauce 2]

I think what he means is compared to other blades sharpening on Fusion does not last. FZBV or ROH the hollow does not last as it does with better quality steel.

Exactly what I was trying to say

[SydNap 25]

Felt the "slide" myself for maybe the first two or three skates. I'm 9 months in now (on I've about 3 times a week) and I never feel it anymore. I'm convinced it was my technique to start. My FBV is lightning quick though, and my sharpening by noicing are the exact same every time...

[MThockeydad 469]

I just got my first FBV runners from Noicing. 8'/14' noicing custom profile and 100/50 FBV.

HUGE step up from the stock profile and radius on my factory LS2 steel. It was a couple of big changes at the same time, so I couldn't say which part is better, but I am extremely happy.

[the_game 452]

Am I the only one who didn't like the FBV from Noicing? I loved the radius Noicing put on but my FBV experience was horrible.

I guess I felt the 'slide' where my edge would wash out sideways either when trying to stride or stop, felt very awkward and unsafe so I ditched the FBV as quick as possible.

Was there something I was missing? All the guys who use it & love it has to account for me being an anomaly, no?

[MThockeydad 469]

Which FBV were you skating and what radius? What's your weight?


I'm only a C-level skater and I went from a 7/16" ROH to 100/50 ("9/16") when I went FBV.
7/16 was probably too narrow for me, but I definitely didn't feel washout going to a shallower FBV.

[the_game 452]

8/12 neutral pitch with a 100/75, weigh around 220. I usually roll on a 9 ft radius & a 3/8 edge.

Usually hang in the A leagues around my area so I guess I'm a pretty decent skater.

The FBV experience I had at Noicing turned me off to the concept although everything I read makes me want to try it again. Maybe I just need to find another place other than Noicing to get the FBV done.

[MThockeydad 469]

You're probably more in tune to minor variations than I am and you're probably coaxing a lot more out of your edges than I am!

[wrangler 157]

Hard to blame FBV in general if you tried only one cut. You're going to get more slide than ROH until you put some force behind the push. If you're getting too much slide, try another cut.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

If you have BFD available, you might want to give that a try.