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andymac1324

help me understand 'minimum advertised price'

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New to buying gear online, and I'm trying to understand how MAP items work. This almost seems like a form of collusion to me. Shouldn't retailers have the right to sell an item for any price they want? How long do the price restrictions last on any given item??

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it is what it says it is, it is the minimum that a dealer can advertise an item for sale at, be it in print, TV, online, etc. They are intended to stabilize pricing and help traditonal "brick and mortar" dealers (i.e. your LHS). It is not the minimum they can sell it at, just what they can advertise it at. Most of these policies by manufacturer's (at least in the electronics world) have also expanded to an old online loop hole and now include the "click here for price" that you used to see that circumvented MAP pricing when you first started to see it in the middle part of the last decade. The problem with MAP policies from my experience is that manufacturers (once again in electronics world) are inconsistent with their enforcing of them, as the more numbers to the left of the decimel point in business you do with a company, the less easy it is for them to just replace your business by cutting you off as a dealer (or distributor as MAP is multi two staged now), and the more they are inclined to turn a blind eye. If it were a minimum retail price, that would be considered price fixing and that would get the Fed's attention, but MAP policies have been upheld in numerous courts, they aren't (nor should they) be going anywhere. If enforced properly, they can help the small dealer keep some needed margin and penalize the internet whores who are just box movers often just acting as a website with a shopping cart processing what are essentially direct orders for their distributors, processed by losers in their mom's basement who bring no tangible expertise (other than skimming 2-5% above wholesale for hosting a website) to an industry.

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Once items are discontinued, the restriction is usually lifted. MAP is actually a good policy for everyone. It minimizes the impact of selling decisions to the local market. I remember when my shop was stocking TPS products, one of the online sites was selling new product for less than the wholesale prices we were quoted. The end result was that we, along with other stores, stopped buying the product. Mission, on the other hand, had a MAP that gave us a minimum margin of 25% or so if we paid full wholesale price. Buying in higher volume got us an additional discount off of that price. At that point, we could sell it for whatever we wanted in the store, but it had to be listed at MAP online.

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thanks for the info. Normally I'm all for local business, but my LHS isn't a good example of what a LHS should be. terrible customer service, very limited selection, anytime I ask a question I feel like I'm bugging the employees. Heck, it may seem trivial, but after I bought a few roles of tape today and leaving the store, I didn't even get a 'have a good one!' which is pretty standard for any retail business. Because of this I'm usually pushed to buying things online.

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Some online retailers will actually apply their "does not apply to MAP items" coupon codes to your order if you email/call them after you place the order. I've had a few who did it for me in the past. It never hurts to ask!

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Some online retailers will actually apply their "does not apply to MAP items" coupon codes to your order if you email/call them after you place the order. I've had a few who did it for me in the past. It never hurts to ask!

really? Seems like a risk doing it AFTER the order is placed. how often does this work for you?

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really? Seems like a risk doing it AFTER the order is placed. how often does this work for you?

The problem with MAP is in the execution. I've heard stories of some equipment manufacturers trying to force their retailers to sell every item at MAP, and giving them problems when they don't. One retailer told me that when they tried to explain to a manufacturer that that was illegal price-fixing, the manufacturer either didn't care, or didn't understand. So the retailer has to play a game, pretending on the web site that no discounts apply to the products in question, and avoiding any commitment in email for such discounts. You have to call them, and they'll apply the discount afterwards, as Chris mentioned. The retailer is trying to avoid illegal price-fixing, and compete on price.

The invoice shows MAP for the manufacturer to see, and a credit is later processed for the discount. Yes, there's a risk of hassle for the consumer, but also for the retailer, if a credit card charge is later disputed because the discount is never processed, or if the retailer is reported to a government agency for fraud and price-fixing. And the word gets out regarding whether the retailer is trustworthy.

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Can anybody tell me which retailers they've had success in getting the discount with? A few places are running 20% off promos right now & I'd love to pick up some new skates, if I could take advantage of the promotion that is. 20% on apx2s sounds like a sweet deal to me!

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In the footwear retail world MAP pricing is very common. I doubt that a major company would put themselves in a situation where they would be at risk of legal battles as a result. At least in that industry, the manufacturer controls the price that a company can sell it for, otherwise they won't provide that company product to sell. It would surprise me if hockey retail wasn't the same way.

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If the manufacturer is controlling the price, it means that the retailers are going along with it. That's price-fixing, and it's illegal. Since it requires a conspiracy, it wouldn't surprise me if the RICO statutes applied.

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If the manufacturer is controlling the price, it means that the retailers are going along with it. That's price-fixing, and it's illegal. Since it requires a conspiracy, it wouldn't surprise me if the RICO statutes applied.

Yes and no. It's a gray area. Price fixing is when your company owns X percent of the market and then controls pricing. That's when it becomes illegal. Until then a MAP program is legal and not considered price fixing. Right or wrong, a MAP policy can help protect retailers and the brand depending on how it's used.

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There's nothing illegal about it.

You just can't print or advertise a price below what is set.

If you want to sell it for less and make less margin, that's fine - as long as you don't print or advertise it.

If you want to sell it for more and make more margin, that's fine - but that's just idiotic.

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If the manufacturer is controlling the price, it means that the retailers are going along with it. That's price-fixing, and it's illegal. Since it requires a conspiracy, it wouldn't surprise me if the RICO statutes applied.

Yes and no. It's a gray area. Price fixing is when your company owns X percent of the market and then controls pricing. That's when it becomes illegal. Until then a MAP program is legal and not considered price fixing. Right or wrong, a MAP policy can help protect retailers and the brand depending on how it's used.

You're talking about MAP. I wasn't, and I was responding to a comment that wasn't. Regardless, a bit of research reveals that the law in this area has changed since I last read it -- and that's been a while, since I don't practice in this area. It seems that nowadays, especially since Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., 551 U.S. 877 (2007), it's not as black and white as it used to be, and requires a case-by-case analysis. I think it's important in the case of hockey equipment, especially a product like skates, that you can't simply go buy another manufacturer's product if it won't fit properly. I'll have to agree that it can be a gray area, with plenty of room for lawyers to make money arguing it. I'd prefer to argue that it's illegal.

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I dont think you guys understand what price fixing is. You may want to read about it from the FTC website. http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing

Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms.

Price fixing requires multiple entities to conspire to control the pricing on a particular item. In other words, unless Bauer, CCM, and Warrior all decide that they will not allow a helmet to be sold for less than $300, that is price fixing.

Telling a vendor that you must sell their product for a specific amount, when there are other options out there, is not price fixing and is totally legal.

Oakley does this. If you're an Oakley dealer, every vendor pays exactly the same for a pair of glasses and must sell it for a specified amount. Its actually a good thing for both consumers and vendors. As a consumer, you know you're going to pay the same amount wherever you go, as a vendor, you know no one is going to undercut you and Oakley offers a very fair margin on their product. Everyone wins.

MAP pricing is in now way anything like price fixing. Its doesnt even tell a vendor what they can sell it for, only what they can advertise it for.

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I like MAP, it keeps the big online stores from undercutting, which they do. I report them every time I see the abuse. I know their tricks. They might have an overstock, then lowball a price. By the time we report them, and the manufacturer scolds them (and that's all they get is a scolding if that), they still were able to get rid of their overstock in the time it takes to get the correct price back on their site. Pretty soon their won't be any local stores for people to sneak into to check out and try an item before they go home and purchase it online.

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Pretty soon their won't be any local stores for people to sneak into to check out and try an item before they go home and purchase it online.

sales tax standardization will help with that. I hear/see guys talking about how much they save "just on the tax" versus buying locally, both with hockey and musical gear.

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