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aviery

China - A complete lack of respect for technology, equipment & copyright

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id be willing to bet that E-II is a better built instrument. Fender and Gibson have been living off their names for years. Sure I lust after a early 70's LP Custom, but wouldn't even consider a new Gibby.

My issue isn't that companies are opting to manufacture in China, it's China blatant disregard for US copyright and trademarks. If you buy a fake X1 and you think it sucks, it looks bad on Bauer. it's their name that gets soiled and that just botherse to no end.

I don't feel bad for Bauer or companies that outsource to China. You play with 2 edges of the overseas sword. You want to save money but the price you pay is counterfeits. Could a company in China make fakes that are not outsourced, sure but its harder. When a company like Bauer brings all the tech & IP to China, people will steal it and make a buck off it. Its a shitty thing to do but its the cost of doing business over there. There is a reason why certain industries won't manufacture or even ship products to China, its free-for-all over there

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I think this is the article in question : http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1040239252142005473

Interesting case study, I wanted to highlight a few parts:

"New Balance's lawyer, Mr. Lewin, says that the company "was naive" in the way it structured its relationship with Mr. Chang."
"
Recently, New Balance changed its relationship with suppliers. It cut the number of factories it uses in China to six and monitors them more closely. It has also begun using high-tech shoe labels to better spot counterfeiters and keep control of its own production.

But executives fear another episode like this one. "It could happen to any of our suppliers anywhere in the world," says Mr. Haddad. "Once you teach them how to make it, anyone could do it."

As a requirement for many firms looking to venture into China, the government has long enforced the requirement to create joint ventures with local firms or similar partnership agreements in certain industrial sectors. This is the 'teaching' aspect that Mr. Haddad references. New Balance essentially learned the hard way to better control their distribution chain.

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can't order just one. you have to buy 10 @ 85 each. so that eliminates many people. dunno how much shipping is.

mods should organize a group buy and have them slap mod squad hockey on the stick. i'm sure they would sell many while pimping the site

agree with you, shipping is expensive

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Shipping is actually pretty inexpensive in the grand scheme of things.

As far as sticks are concerned, there's plenty of shitty manufacturers overseas. These are easily the majority...

Depends on if you are shipping bulk or individually. Unit cost isn't bad when shipping a container full of product. Individually, it isn't really worth while.

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Since a group buy for MSH was being proposed

None of the people that could make it happen were talking about it.

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I work in the manufacturing industry, specifically biotech, and have had a few years of experience with suppliers overseas. It's really as hit or miss as it is over here so to paint the entire country or region with a broad brush is completely wrong.

There are some vendors who have blown away their American counterparts and there are others who have caused me to pull my hair out. As far as companies stealing other company's proprietary products, that's what happens when you outsource anything. Especially these days when it is so much easier to reverse engineer anything you can get your hands on. NDA's mean squat.

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Great thread! I actually heard someone talking about a deal on sticks recently, supposedly from the top 3 or 4 manufactures. I thought, oh, maybe they are somehow selling closeouts from the wholesale distributor level, BUT these were a mix of current and older sticks. Red flags immediately went up, when they said you had to wait for them to be manufactured! Too odd that someone could coordinate a stick purchase from the top brands and have everything manufactured and shipped at the same time! Plus what manufacture would manufacture an older model if you wanted it?

Needless to say, walked away from it as they were billing these sticks as the real deal. It's a shame that people are doing this.....

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What about brands like All Black Hockey Sticks (ABHS)? I was told they were made in the same factory as another premium brand?

Curious if ABHS adds any specifications into their sticks and how they are made (materials, flex, blade, & etc) or do they just buy what the factory sells them? If the latter, are the factories just using some of the premium brands specifications (maybe changing it slightly so not to infringe) and selling as generic or are they reproducing the exact stick with no graphics?

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What about brands like All Black Hockey Sticks (ABHS)? I was told they were made in the same factory as another premium brand?

Curious if ABHS adds any specifications into their sticks and how they are made (materials, flex, blade, & etc) or do they just buy what the factory sells them? If the latter, are the factories just using some of the premium brands specifications (maybe changing it slightly so not to infringe) and selling as generic or are they reproducing the exact stick with no graphics?

If you were a no-label company, would you pay the extra premium to get quality sticks from a branded company from the factory, or would you just take whatever sticks are lying around?

They have no incentive to actually give you a blacked out MX3 when they can just imply that's what it is, and give you an extra Gear stick that Hockey Giant didn't want.

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FWIW a couple of guys I skate with have been using the All Black sticks for awhile and have been happy with them. I messed around with one a bit in warm ups and it seemed like a nice stick, it felt really light and had a nice puck feel to it. I didn't take any shots with it so I can't comment on how well it shoots, but it seemed like a good value for $90.

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If you were a no-label company, would you pay the extra premium to get quality sticks from a branded company from the factory, or would you just take whatever sticks are lying around?

They have no incentive to actually give you a blacked out MX3 when they can just imply that's what it is, and give you an extra Gear stick that Hockey Giant didn't want.

I'm not really sure what to think, probably just over thinking it all. I guess I should have directly asked, are the manufactures being the unscrupulous ones, and making sticks using the intellectual property (and R&D) of the premium brands, or are they selling "similar" generic stick where the manufactures specify the materials, flex points, curves and etc, and then they sell to companies that want to start a stick brand?

Anyway, great topic! Just interested in it as I "think" I have seen some knockoff sticks around the rink (but these were painted as branded sticks). So that is why I was curious about this topic.

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Within their capability, the manufacturers will make a stick to your preference (weight, carbon wrap, flex, curve, branding are the main choices). It's no secret what's required to make a stick, how you make that stick and what goes into it is the IP that companies have. Whilst companies claim their sticks are made in the same place as another premium brand, I have found that is not the case. An example I will use is one company I visited that claimed to make Bauer sticks. When I pressed the case they admitted that they had made sample sticks for Bauer and sent them to them for testing. Thats as far as they got but they now claimed they "made" sticks for Bauer! Out of the 14 companies that I have visited / talked to in china not one of them was or had been a brand name manufacturer yet they all claimed to have made brand name sticks. It's a marketing ploy to get you to buy their sticks. Some of these sticks were well made (and some very poorly) and these guys do do R&D on them although sometimes that R&D can be a disaster, for example I know of a number of instances where they changed the blade design and without proper testing sent an order out only to have every blade fail inside of 2 weeks of use. They make a generic stick to the best of their manufacturing ability and that ability may include a good dollop of IP, including brand name and graphics, from someone else.

Afaik Surewin (who make Bauer sticks) and other contract manufactures who make brand name sticks do not produce their own versions and sell them in the open market, either branded or unbranded. It violates their licensing agreement. What Warrior were doing with their left over sticks (getting turned into other brands, I don't know if they still do this) was something different and this may be happening elsewhere also.

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