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TwoFour

Technologies to improve stick durability - where have they gone?

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My stick broke on a faceoff in my last game which got me to thinking.  Ten years ago Easton used to have their carbon nanotube technology (CNT) and Kevlar wrap.  These technologies were advertised to improve durability of Easton sticks.  I believe they worked because I still have a high mileage Easton ST that I stopped using only because I prefer a different pattern.  I have a friend with an old Stealth CNT that still feels/plays better than many modern sticks.  Aside from Sherwood's graphene sticks, it seems technologies that improve durability and extend stick life are absent in today's market.  Running across my old Easton today made me realize that over the last decade manufacturers have conditioned me to accept that my stick is only going to last about a year, maybe less, before breaking.  Are there any current offerings that have a reputation similar to those old Easton ST's?

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Isn't TeXtreme supposed to be a super light carbonfibre weave? Thats atleast how it's marketed on Unihoc's floorball sticks here in Sweden.!!

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If you want performance you gotta sacrifice durability, what do you care for more ? I don't break any sticks, I use them for what they are meant for, companies are competing out there, I believe a lot of sticks on the market are durable, it's all about how you use them, never abuse them and they will be good to you. 

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There's a fine line between:

1. Creating something too fragile where you turn off/scare away repeat customers

2. Making something too durable to the point where it limits sales/margins because your average buyer only needs one per season. See: CNT Stealth 

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Like CAVs said, the company makes no money if their stick lasts, they want it to last 31days only.  They know the suckers will go by another of the same model for $269.00.

 

I use to laugh at people who would pick up a durable stick and whine that it was too "heavy".  If you can't handle 25 more grams, do some push ups every night.

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2 minutes ago, jimmy said:

Like CAVs said, the company makes no money if their stick lasts, they want it to last 31days only.  They know the suckers will go by another of the same model for $269.00.

 

I use to laugh at people who would pick up a durable stick and whine that it was too "heavy".  If you can't handle 25 more grams, do some push ups every night.

 

I think the $100 stick range provides good performance for the cost. Anything more is a bit of a waste and is unlikely to last as long.

Now, that being said, if you can find one piece carbon sticks for a good deal (under $100) then I would definitely lean in that direction. Just know that they will definitely not last as long as a heavier and beefier stick. My favorite stick is the Sherwood Rekker EK15. I picked them up on a closeout for super cheap, I think I paid $50 each so I bought 6 of them. The Ryan 88 curve. 

One stick, within the first 30 days developed a weird sound inside the stick, where the shaft meets the blade. Sounds almost like glue or carbon got loose and it rattling around. Sherwood told me to try and get it out, which is not possible since it's the fused part of the shaft, and since I couldn't they said to break the stick and send it back. Weird that they told me to break it, but whatever. Other than the weird feeling of something rattling around inside the stick it performs fine. It's just weird when you take a pass to feel this rattle inside the stick. Most people probably wouldn't care since the stick is still 100% fine but its drives me bonkers.

One other stick got a deep gouge in it from a slash or skate a t the blade/shaft area and looks to be on its last legs as it's slowly losing its pop. I figure it's on borrowed time but Sherwood again said to mail it back and they would replace it. Their customer service is phenomenal. I am using this as my primary currently for practice and drop in until it lets go.

My other sticks seem to be holding up just fine and I constantly rotate between them. No specific reason, it's just my OCD. I literally try and make sure each stick gets equal ice time. I know. I'm weird.....

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The tech and process are still there, we just don't make it the forefront of our product marketing message.  Based on research, we found players want to know more about performance, and how the stick will improve their game.  Not about some improved manufacturing process,  third-party raw material improvement or some technical resin or composite name.

That said, these consumers also say that if we grab their attention and tell them about improved performance and the stick breaks, they'll never buy our product again.  This drives us to test our product constantly and improve our process/materials with every product through our line (top to bottom).

Quick answer, our product performs better than it ever has and it doesn't break nearly as often as it used to.  Warrior is enjoying our best performance/durability balance in our history.

Edited by Miseaujeu
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1 hour ago, Miseaujeu said:

The tech and process are still there, we just don't make it the forefront of our product marketing message.  Based on research, we found players want to know more about performance, and how the stick will improve their game.  Not about some improved manufacturing process,  third-party raw material improvement or some technical resin or composite name.

That said, these consumers also say that if we grab their attention and tell them about improved performance and the stick breaks, they'll never buy our product again.  This drives us to test our product constantly and improve our process/materials with every product through our line (top to bottom).

Quick answer, our product performs better than it ever has and it doesn't break nearly as often as it used to.  Warrior is enjoying our best performance/durability balance in our history.

id love if you guys could please list the molecular weight numbers of the resins used in each of your QR models for comparison, thanks!!! ;)

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4 hours ago, Stewie said:

id love if you guys could please list the molecular weight numbers of the resins used in each of your QR models for comparison, thanks!!! ;)

adhesives dork.....

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On 10/9/2016 at 9:22 PM, TwoFour said:

My stick broke on a faceoff in my last game which got me to thinking.  Ten years ago Easton used to have their carbon nanotube technology (CNT) and Kevlar wrap.  These technologies were advertised to improve durability of Easton sticks.  I believe they worked because I still have a high mileage Easton ST that I stopped using only because I prefer a different pattern.  I have a friend with an old Stealth CNT that still feels/plays better than many modern sticks.  Aside from Sherwood's graphene sticks, it seems technologies that improve durability and extend stick life are absent in today's market.  Running across my old Easton today made me realize that over the last decade manufacturers have conditioned me to accept that my stick is only going to last about a year, maybe less, before breaking.  Are there any current offerings that have a reputation similar to those old Easton ST's?

By the way, we had a conversation on here about the CNT Stealth a while back. I HIGHLY doubt the Stealth actually had Carbon Nanotubes in it. The cost of them would have been outrageous in 2006.

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If you want your stick to last longer: all puck play along the boards will be given up to the opposing player. Take the puck away after the puck is off the wall. Finally, don't take faceoffs.

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I mean to summarize the obvious of what was already said the top of the line sticks at the top price points are designed to perform at the highest level with no regard for durability. If you want durability dont bother with that level of stick. Go for a level or two down and you will get another couple grams of weight but the stick will be significantly more durable.

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17 hours ago, Miseaujeu said:

The tech and process are still there, we just don't make it the forefront of our product marketing message.  Based on research, we found players want to know more about performance, and how the stick will improve their game.  Not about some improved manufacturing process,  third-party raw material improvement or some technical resin or composite name.

That said, these consumers also say that if we grab their attention and tell them about improved performance and the stick breaks, they'll never buy our product again.  This drives us to test our product constantly and improve our process/materials with every product through our line (top to bottom).

Quick answer, our product performs better than it ever has and it doesn't break nearly as often as it used to.  Warrior is enjoying our best performance/durability balance in our history.

Not to pump up Warrior or anything, but the difference for durability from the DT1LT to the QRL is so mind boggling I can't believe it is from the same company. Not just the sticks not breaking but them keeping their kick and the blades staying stiff.

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1 minute ago, Hills said:

Not to pump up Warrior or anything, but the difference for durability from the DT1LT to the QRL is so mind boggling I can't believe it is from the same company. Not just the sticks not breaking but them keeping their kick and the blades staying stiff.

Thanks.  I think?

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Just now, Miseaujeu said:

Thanks.  I think?

No, it really is. Perhaps I worded that first part wrong :laugh:

At the time the DT1LT was the best stick I ever used, but 3 months in and it lost its oomph in shots. QRL feels the exact same as it did the first day I got it. Before I expected sticks to degrade in quality over a short time, EK60 and QRL have changed my thoughts on that.

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27 minutes ago, iammerson said:

I mean to summarize the obvious of what was already said the top of the line sticks at the top price points are designed to perform at the highest level with no regard for durability. If you want durability dont bother with that level of stick. Go for a level or two down and you will get another couple grams of weight but the stick will be significantly more durable.

"With no regard" is not true.  There are tests showing that our QRL top end is more durable than some of our mid/low end from past years.  

I give full credit to our team of design engineers and test engineers for the huge improvements in our pro and retail sticks over the last 3 years...to quote Hills; it is "mind-boggling".

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8 minutes ago, Hills said:

No, it really is. Perhaps I worded that first part wrong :laugh:

At the time the DT1LT was the best stick I ever used, but 3 months in and it lost its oomph in shots. QRL feels the exact same as it did the first day I got it. Before I expected sticks to degrade in quality over a short time, EK60 and QRL have changed my thoughts on that.

Aha!  Sorry, I probably read it wrong.

Thanks for the kind words.  I'm glad the QRL left a good impression for you.  This is our best marketing vehicle - good word of mouth.

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18 hours ago, kovalchuk71 said:

By the way, we had a conversation on here about the CNT Stealth a while back. I HIGHLY doubt the Stealth actually had Carbon Nanotubes in it. The cost of them would have been outrageous in 2006.

Well it was the most expensive stick to date when it came out ;)

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I was lucky enough to be able to test our the new Warrior QRL and I have to say as far as high end stick goes it is leaps and bounds better then the rest. Have been playing with it since June and the stick still feels brand new. At least Warrior is a glimmer of hope for those who are still in the market for 260-300 dollar sticks.

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On 10/11/2016 at 0:04 AM, kovalchuk71 said:

By the way, we had a conversation on here about the CNT Stealth a while back. I HIGHLY doubt the Stealth actually had Carbon Nanotubes in it. The cost of them would have been outrageous in 2006.

Really? They did license the technology from Zyvex. Not only would it seem they were foolish to pay a licensing fee for something they didn't actually use, wouldn't that also amount to fraud?

If you look at the Easton 2006 catalog in the downloads, it has a graphic showing the cnt's in the resin around the carbon weave. I'm guessing that might be NanoSolve? I couldn't quickly find info explaining that product.

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On 10/10/2016 at 10:04 PM, kovalchuk71 said:

By the way, we had a conversation on here about the CNT Stealth a while back. I HIGHLY doubt the Stealth actually had Carbon Nanotubes in it. The cost of them would have been outrageous in 2006.

I have talked to many stick engineers and every one of them disputes their claims.  For nano tubes to be effective they have to be utilized to a much higher extent than cost permits.  Throwing a pinch of salt so to speak may technically mean that yes there are indeed nano tubes in the mix,  but not enough to make a difference.

 

The drop off on performance / durability for some mfg's may be due to some brands using one factory to produce the elite product and another in China to produce the low end product.  That and/or one process to make the elite price point product and a different process to make the sticks below the top dog.

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