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Zamboni

Warrior Refused Legit Stick Warranty

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Howdy,

1 hour ago, stevelknievel said:

Profit margin should have nothing to do with this. And warrior shouldn't feel compelled to do anything. It's stated very clearly in their policy the seller must be a authorized dealer. If I was the OP I'd be aggravated too, but I'd be directing it at the retailer not warrior. 


Oh, I think the retailer screwed the pooch big time as well, but I'm not a customer of theirs.  :-)

Glad to see Warrior doing the right thing regardless of whatever policy they have.


Mark

Edited by marka

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2 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I'm very confident this will be resolved, however, once again, it is the policy. And that CSR was doing his job. 

If we want to go with your scenario, let me throw this one at you:

Say someone buys a stick from someone who stole it. And that person just happens to get a receipt and he can send the stolen stick in for warranty.  It's a legitimate stick. Is that ok?

That's why that is the first line in the policy. Obviously this case doesn't apply, because there's no way to know for sure why they aren't authorized. 

A receipt for stolen goods. That's funny.

 

Another thing that was brought up was the process of finding dealers. The manufacturer's websites are outdated as ccm noted. Why is this? They can't even maintain a list on their website? For fun, I just checked Bauer's site for a dealer near me and it listed one in town that hasn't sold hockey gear for six years.

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2 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

A receipt for stolen goods. That's funny.

You'd be surprised how many requests on a weekly basis I get from customers wanting me to print duplicate receipts. 

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1 hour ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Those serial codes are not used by retailers in any capacity.   The best we can do is to stick the peelable one onto the receipt  

The situation you have described goes back since these sticks hit the market. 

 

Yeah, usually they peel and stick the serial to the receipt. I use Camscanner (available on Android and in the App Store for iPhone) to snap pictures of the receipt and product soon as I buy anything. Better to be safe than sorry. 

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20 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

You'd be surprised how many requests on a weekly basis I get from customers wanting me to print duplicate receipts. 

In a different industry, but my old store tracked transaction numbers and multiple returns on the same transaction number was flagged for this exact reason.

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It's gray market. It exists in many industries and is nearly impossible to prevent. If a store is selling gray market goods they are not going to tell the consumer that and that they forfeit warranty and that the item may even be counterfeit.  The old adage buyer beware will unfortunately always exist when someone is trying to make a buck. I work in dental supplies and gray mkt dealers are rampant. Some doctors get duped and some knowingly buy it to save a buck. Usually the price is well under market rate (but not in all situations) and that is red flag #1. We tell our customers to not trust what we say but call or visit vendors website and ask them who their authorized dealers are. Scary thing for us is if you buy a gray market stick and not warrantied or found to be fake your just out your money. With gray dental product, that's an item that the Dr. might be putting in your body that isn't legit and your paying high bills.

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There are legitimate gray market products also. They are the same product from the manufacturer just with a different service or warranty agreement. They are sold right next to the official USA imports at large retailers.

 

I'm a photographer and when I buy Nikon gear I really have four options. New USA, new gray market, manufacturer refurbished, or used. I know this may not be directly related to the topic but I'm just sayin'.

Edited by 218hockey

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59 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

There are legitimate gray market products also. They are the same product from the manufacturer just with a different service or warranty agreement. They are sold right next to the official USA imports at large retailers.

 

I'm a photographer and when I buy Nikon gear I really have four options. New USA, new gray market, manufacturer refurbished, or used. I know this may not be directly related to the topic but I'm just sayin'.

I'm in the photo industry as well and the fact that the major and respectable retailers do this educates most consumers both that grey market products exist and there are warranty/support differences. So if you go buying a new camera from some random eBay seller, the consumer is generally aware of these differences. I don't think the same can be said of hockey equipment. If this is a big problem, I believe the manufacturers should be more proactive in educating consumers and helping identify authorized retailers.

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Regardless, the response should have been "Wow, my retailer is shady, I'll never buy from them again", rather than "The manufacturer sucks, they won't give me free stuff because I got duped."

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29 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Regardless, the response should have been "Wow, my retailer is shady, I'll never buy from them again", rather than "The manufacturer sucks, they won't give me free stuff because I got duped."

Those responses are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I would be surprised if the OP did purchase from that retailer again. And "give me free stuff because I got duped" is a gross oversimplification.

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My first response would be asking why he's selling product that's not covered under warranty even though he doesn't share that information with the consumer prior to purchase. The retailer forgot to mention "oh by the way I'm not technically allowed to be selling these so don't bring it to warrior" and then refused to cooperate when a warranty issue arose. This retailer sounds like a real piece of garbage. 

I agree with the whole authorized dealer only for warranties and understand why it has to be done, but to blame a consumer for assuming a legitimate shop in a rink is an authorized dealer when he isn't is absurd. In my mind that has never once entered my mind when buying any piece of hockey equipment ever. 

Stick tap to Keith and the fellas at warrior for standing behind their product even though this was a battle they technically shouldn't have even been involved in. Customer service goes a long way. And it seems like everybody at warrior is buying in from what I learned talking to their guys at the FGL pro camp back in the summer. 

Edited by adam14
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Warrior has stepped up and made this good-as others have posted Warrior was under no obligation to do so. This has been an eye opener for me, will be more careful in the future on buying from authorized dealers....wasn't aware of this issue.

My family was about to purchase items for our Church's Christmas baskets for needy families....that will now be a couple of Warrior sticks.

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9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Warrior has stepped up and made this good-as others have posted Warrior was under no obligation to do so. This has been an eye opener for me, will be more careful in the future on buying from authorized dealers....wasn't aware of this issue.

My family was about to purchase items for our Church's Christmas baskets for needy families....that will now be a couple of Warrior sticks.

No problem Zamboni...these mix-ups happen and it's not your fault.  I think it's very nice that you've turned this into a nice act to a needy family.  Very cool.

This thread has really opened our eyes to issues in the market and how we deal with them.  The comments on "how should we know a dealer is authorized, or not?" and "how do you expect us to know when your authorized dealer locator on your website is not accurate" have led to some major discussions in our office involving multiple groups responsible for these very key issues.

Thanks again to this valuable group for a better connection to our customers.  Let's keep talking.

 

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10 hours ago, Miseaujeu said:

No problem Zamboni...these mix-ups happen and it's not your fault.  I think it's very nice that you've turned this into a nice act to a needy family.  Very cool.

This thread has really opened our eyes to issues in the market and how we deal with them.  The comments on "how should we know a dealer is authorized, or not?" and "how do you expect us to know when your authorized dealer locator on your website is not accurate" have led to some major discussions in our office involving multiple groups responsible for these very key issues.

Thanks again to this valuable group for a better connection to our customers.  Let's keep talking.

 

And a huge thanks to you Keith and your other Warrior Team members for being on this site, for telling us about your products and for taking on issues like this when they arise.    

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Why complain about the manufacturers warranty when it's clearly stated.  The beef is with the store who sold it.  When we sell items that are not under warranty, we specifically let the customer know there is no warranty, Miken sticks, Hackva masks, etc. etc.

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Good on you Warrior for taking care of this for OP.

 

Brings up an interesting discussion that I am sure gets tossed around too much, but, what if we got rid of stick warranties all together? Or make an exemption where it can be returned to the store on the same day if it breaks?

The stick warranty system is such a joke IMHO. Buy a stick, use it for 30 days, if it breaks, not because of manufacture defect, but plenty, plenty of times because of user error, slashes, zam door, stepping on, or that good ole cross bar, send it in and get a new one. Oh, I broke it in 33 days, might as well call in and see if they do it...oh wait, I get to warranty this? Awesome! IMHO a genuine warranty issue is going to come up like OP here, and be pretty much immediate. Or the consumer had a lot of bad luck. I've heard stories of customers coming in here saying they warrantied a stick as long as 50 days since purchased because they complained enough. And forget about if it was a christmas gift and you bought it at Black Friday. I've had multiple customers tell me in late January or early February, they purposefully break the stick, calling CS, saying they got it as a Xmas gift (purchased on black friday) and didn't start using it until the first week in January, give me a new stick! where they've truthfully been using it for 2 months. And there are the customers who buy the same exact stick, wait 2 weeks and warranty the one they broke after 3 months of use. And don't get me started on the people that fake receipts, I've seen some good ones that definitely would pass if a retailer is small enough and doesn't get a lot of sales with that particular manufacture. 

 

How about we just kill the warranty, sell top-end for $150ish, have a $100 stick and a $70 stick and call it a day? If the consumer breaks their stick, sorry but tough shit. You got a higher quality product for a better price than before. Maybe, maybe give stores the option to give a 24 hour warranty for those unlucky few that truly do have a legitimate manufacture defect or some fat guy fall on their stick or those pesky zam doors that eat sticks. 

Men's leaguers generally don't need warranties. Youth players do not need warranties. How many 10 year olds using a junior stick break it? Practically zero, correct? Most warranties I would  venture to say are from middle to high end players aged 13 to 20. That's your key demographic to sell a warranty to, however for the rest of us, we don't need it. And those kids in that 13-20 age range are probably sick of buying so many sticks all the time, especially sticks that cost $200+. A lot are doing team stick packs now, with no warranty, so why not just offer it to everyone?

Whichever of the big 3 implements a no-warrantable line of sticks first I think is just going to crush the market that year, it'll cause huge ripples. Why the hell would you buy a top end Bauer or CCM for $270 or $300 or whatever it is now when you can buy a QRL for $150? You wouldn't, you'd buy that Warrior. Parents and players are sick of the huge prices. Allow the retailers  to make a decent profit (not same $  value as a top-end, but maybe a slightly higher %) so they're happy, consumer is happy, you don't have to deal with warranty stuff, win-win-win.

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5 minutes ago, raganblink said:

Good on you Warrior for taking care of this for OP.

 

Brings up an interesting discussion that I am sure gets tossed around too much, but, what if we got rid of stick warranties all together? Or make an exemption where it can be returned to the store on the same day if it breaks?

The stick warranty system is such a joke IMHO. Buy a stick, use it for 30 days, if it breaks, not because of manufacture defect, but plenty, plenty of times because of user error, slashes, zam door, stepping on, or that good ole cross bar, send it in and get a new one. Oh, I broke it in 33 days, might as well call in and see if they do it...oh wait, I get to warranty this? Awesome! IMHO a genuine warranty issue is going to come up like OP here, and be pretty much immediate. Or the consumer had a lot of bad luck. I've heard stories of customers coming in here saying they warrantied a stick as long as 50 days since purchased because they complained enough. And forget about if it was a christmas gift and you bought it at Black Friday. I've had multiple customers tell me in late January or early February, they purposefully break the stick, calling CS, saying they got it as a Xmas gift (purchased on black friday) and didn't start using it until the first week in January, give me a new stick! where they've truthfully been using it for 2 months. And there are the customers who buy the same exact stick, wait 2 weeks and warranty the one they broke after 3 months of use. And don't get me started on the people that fake receipts, I've seen some good ones that definitely would pass if a retailer is small enough and doesn't get a lot of sales with that particular manufacture. 

 

How about we just kill the warranty, sell top-end for $150ish, have a $100 stick and a $70 stick and call it a day? If the consumer breaks their stick, sorry but tough shit. You got a higher quality product for a better price than before. Maybe, maybe give stores the option to give a 24 hour warranty for those unlucky few that truly do have a legitimate manufacture defect or some fat guy fall on their stick or those pesky zam doors that eat sticks. 

Men's leaguers generally don't need warranties. Youth players do not need warranties. How many 10 year olds using a junior stick break it? Practically zero, correct? Most warranties I would  venture to say are from middle to high end players aged 13 to 20. That's your key demographic to sell a warranty to, however for the rest of us, we don't need it. And those kids in that 13-20 age range are probably sick of buying so many sticks all the time, especially sticks that cost $200+. A lot are doing team stick packs now, with no warranty, so why not just offer it to everyone?

Whichever of the big 3 implements a no-warrantable line of sticks first I think is just going to crush the market that year, it'll cause huge ripples. Why the hell would you buy a top end Bauer or CCM for $270 or $300 or whatever it is now when you can buy a QRL for $150? You wouldn't, you'd buy that Warrior. Parents and players are sick of the huge prices. Allow the retailers  to make a decent profit (not same $  value as a top-end, but maybe a slightly higher %) so they're happy, consumer is happy, you don't have to deal with warranty stuff, win-win-win.

 

This could work, in theory, assuming their cost to manufacture, distribute, the cost for sales reps, customer service, reps marketing, regional accounts reps, state account reps and many others things allow for such. I cannot see their bottom line so I cannot make an assumption. 

I think sticks that fall in the range of $200-$300 are less profitable than when they sell a Sub $125 stick currently. 

When someone breaks a sub $125 stick they usually accept it and move on. It's not worth the hassle and shipping costs to send in a stick of that price point. The process to manufacture is probably easier as well and QA is less picky about cosmetic stick defects and such. 

If you buy a $300 stick then it does warrant spending the $25 to mail the stick back and causing a ruckus if it was in fact manufacturer defect. A $300 dollar stick is sometimes made by hand which is a manual labor process. Ever watch how they make the Colt sticks or the Sher-Wood Rekker sticks?  I also imagine their QA process for those sticks is more stringent which is why we see some high-end sticks for sale on 3rd party websites for cheap. Those sticks may not have made it through QA entirely and as such are not deemed to be sold as a premium stick. They most likely sell then off at cost to a 3rd party which then sells them for much less.

But honestly, which do you think they sell more of? A $200+ dollars sticks or -$125 sticks? I personally would never pay $150+ for a stick for any reason. Period. I would wait for it to go on sale or buy last season sticks at a substantial discount. All I care about is if its a one piece composite stick. 

To be even more transparent, I wish they would push hard to bring back more selections of shafts and replacement blades. They feel better, had a lower price point, were not much heavier, and you could mix and match blade types to find the perfect one for you instead of investing a substantial amount of money in trying a new curve and finding you hate it. I would rather pay $100 for a nice shaft and $25 a blade any day. 

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