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IPv6Freely

NHL and other leagues win lawsuit to seize websites selling fakes

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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-and-other-leagues-win-lawsuit-to-seize-websites-selling-fakes-1.641022

Interesting that he specifically talks about the need for people to stop wanting to buy fake jerseys. The problem is, most people really don't care when the prices of real jerseys are so ridiculous. 

In my own experience, I once bought a Blue Jays jersey from a friend who "could get them cheap through her work". At the time I didn't know what that meant, though I should have known, and for a couple years I had no idea it was fake because it was such high quality. It wasn't until I saw a real one up close that I saw the differences. The crazy part is that I went and bought one of the "replicas" from MLB.com (you know, the legitimate jerseys that are cheaper than the "on-the-field authentic" ones) and it was garbage in comparison. Sublimated patches that were heat pressed onto the jersey, rather than the nice embroidered and stitched crests that were on my old fake. 

So that just begs the question: would a typical person rather spend $50 on a really good fake baseball jersey that would be $300 if it were real, or $100 on a really poor legit baseball jersey? I'd suggest for most people the answer is absolutely yes. And there's where the problem lies. 

All that said, I've seen some really REALLY terrible NHL fakes before. 

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 I think i'd rather spend my money on "fükeneh" t-shirt and bring a smile to someones face, but then again I am not into a favorite team apparel guy. Now if I was, quality fake would get my vote until someone convince me that they are made by child slaves in Laos somewhere....

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The problem. Is, they will spring up non stop. Also, I don't think they could even do a thing since it's overseas, can they? 

 

Problem is, NHL wants you to pay what, $200 for a real jersey? Tina got me a replica for $120 and that's much more reasonable. Hell, the Solar Bears Jerseys were $129 at Amway, yet the Lightning replicas with a name plate are $220 in there store with the no name plates being $180. It's insane! That's like, 3 months worth of gas money right there!! 

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8 hours ago, Vulcan7905 said:

The problem. Is, they will spring up non stop. Also, I don't think they could even do a thing since it's overseas, can they? 

 

Problem is, NHL wants you to pay what, $200 for a real jersey? Tina got me a replica for $120 and that's much more reasonable. Hell, the Solar Bears Jerseys were $129 at Amway, yet the Lightning replicas with a name plate are $220 in there store with the no name plates being $180. It's insane! That's like, 3 months worth of gas money right there!! 

Islanders replicas are 130 from the NHL store, and online. Nameplates are still 220, but there are shops where you can get them done cheap.

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While the prices have gone up (and quality has gone down - look at the authentic jerseys you could buy in the 90s - or even simply pre-EDGE compared to the ones now), I would always have to side with the legal side. 

Fake jerseys are never good.  About 13 years ago I bought a fake MLB jersey, unknowingly; as in the logo itself was a fake put on a real authentic jersey.  Once I noticed it, I couldn't unsee it, and I've never worn it again.

These NHL fakes are so bad.  The crest is a dead giveaway, but when they letter them, it's next level bad.

If NHL fakes are acceptable, is counterfeit equipment?

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Buying the fakes - all made in China - undermines legitimate businesses.  I know people think of Nike, UA, Adidas and Reebok as the big guy and tat it wont impact their bottom line profit but it does.  And that in turn leads to a loss of jobs. 

To me it's no different than buying stolen goods.

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2 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

While the prices have gone up (and quality has gone down - look at the authentic jerseys you could buy in the 90s - or even simply pre-EDGE compared to the ones now), I would always have to side with the legal side. 

Fake jerseys are never good.  About 13 years ago I bought a fake MLB jersey, unknowingly; as in the logo itself was a fake put on a real authentic jersey.  Once I noticed it, I couldn't unsee it, and I've never worn it again.

These NHL fakes are so bad.  The crest is a dead giveaway, but when they letter them, it's next level bad.

If NHL fakes are acceptable, is counterfeit equipment?

The worse is when we go to Tampa games. You can pinpoint the fakes by the off color blue in a matter of seconds as well.

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15 hours ago, Vulcan7905 said:

The problem. Is, they will spring up non stop. Also, I don't think they could even do a thing since it's overseas, can they? 

The lawsuit is to basically shutdown usa originated Web domains and e-commerce services as well as to be able to obtain USA end persons if exist. They are trying to make it more difficult for counterfeiters to distribute in US. It would be impossible to stop manufacturing as it is not even known which country to look in for. Some are made right here in USA. Besides, main effort is not to stop fake merch, but to "protect" the consumers that think they get real thing, while they get fakes. These are the only part of consumer base that is recoverable. People who knowingly get fakes, do so because the merch is available at the acceptable to them price. If fakes do not exist, these people simply are not going to buy the product unless it is on massive sale.

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I completely agree @dkmiller3356 and @JR Boucicaut! The problem here is that the real thing is just too expensive for most people who just don't care that their jersey isn't real. The mindset of the people buying them is the real problem here, but without a better option it's going to continue. The "It's 1/3 the price and good enough for me" mindset is why it continues. It's the same reason Tron stays in business. People just don't care about the quality as long as it's cheap. 

In a way, it's almost a good thing that the fakes are so bad; if they were accurate then they'd have an even bigger problem on their hands. At least the authentic replica NHL jerseys are decent enough quality to warrant the price. MLB authentic replicas are terrible!

I also think it's worth mentioning that I think the crowd here on MSH is going to have a very different outlook on things like this compared to the general public. As much as we say "counterfeit jerseys and equipment is bad" but realistically I don't think most people outside of our little bubble care. So the question here is this: how do we get to the point where it becomes worth it to buy authentic? Or specifically, what pushes people to buy fakes?  Is it solely a price thing? I don't have an answer or solution. 

Let me use another analogy. I haven't paid for Microsoft Office - ever. I 100% admit to that. Not since the days of Windows 3.1 when office came in a big box of floppies, all the way up to 2016. Pirated every single version I ever used - until now. Now they have an Office 365 subscription that is $10/mo for up to five licenses. I have always said the way to stop piracy is to solve the issues of accessibility and affordability. A $10/mo subscription makes pirating Office no longer worth the effort. Using music an an example, my massive mp3 library has barely been touched since I got my Spotify subscription that gives me just about anything I could ever want.

So to bring this back to counterfeit jerseys: how does the industry make it so buying authentic is a no-brainer? Clearly just being "the right thing to do" or having people say "you look like an idiot wearing a jersey that is CLEARLY fake" isn't sufficient. So what's the solution here?

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I completely agree. It becomes a balancing act between prices, how many people buy authentic, and how many people buy fakes. If the only way to eliminate the counterfeiting is to drop the price of authentic jerseys so more people will buy them instead of the fakes, then the companies would have to see enough of a sales decline to determine that they need to drop the price. But since the price isn't dropping, they must not be at that point yet where they think their margin is being damaged enough. 

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Howdy,

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

I completely agree. It becomes a balancing act between prices, how many people buy authentic, and how many people buy fakes. If the only way to eliminate the counterfeiting is to drop the price of authentic jerseys so more people will buy them instead of the fakes, then the companies would have to see enough of a sales decline to determine that they need to drop the price. But since the price isn't dropping, they must not be at that point yet where they think their margin is being damaged enough. 

 

I think its more that they think if counterfeits weren't available, they'd sell more at the obscene prices they charge.

I can kinda sorta see paying $100 for a well done sewn "made like an authentic" jersey.  I mean its like $5 in cloth and another $20 in labor (or whatever), so its still crazy overpriced, but I can accept that you gotta pay for having the official design and all, plus the "fan tax" or whatever.

 

But there's no fucking way in hell that I'm paying $250 for it.

 

And the officially licensed replicas I've seen with the glued on crest/logo just annoy the hell outta me on principle.  That's squarely in the "Maybe I'd pay $30 for that" range for me.

However, I'm not much good at "being a fan" of pro sports in general, so maybe it doesn't matter.

 

Mark
 

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While I don't own an NHL jersey anymore, I do have jerseys from other sports from when I was younger. Jerseys sold by their respective leagues, with the exception of the KHL (whose jersey manufacturer, Lutch sells authentics on their site.) are just awful.

1 minute ago, marka said:

Howdy,

 

I think its more that they think if counterfeits weren't available, they'd sell more at the obscene prices they charge.

I can kinda sorta see paying $100 for a well done sewn "made like an authentic" jersey.  I mean its like $5 in cloth and another $20 in labor (or whatever), so its still crazy overpriced, but I can accept that you gotta pay for having the official design and all, plus the "fan tax" or whatever.

 

But there's no fucking way in hell that I'm paying $250 for it.

 

And the officially licensed replicas I've seen with the glued on crest/logo just annoy the hell outta me on principle.  That's squarely in the "Maybe I'd pay $30 for that" range for me.

However, I'm not much good at "being a fan" of pro sports in general, so maybe it doesn't matter.

 

Mark
 

Absolutely. The NHL and other leagues know that they can sell these jerseys, but if they think they're selling quality they're out of their minds. $225 for your favorite team's 'premier' jersey with a nameplate and number? Absolutely not. The NFL and kids jerseys are even worse. Those are just awful. Pick your favorite team in the NFL, for me it's the Buffalo Bills. A kids jersey, with decals that are basically painted on, is 75 dollars, and an adult's is 100. Are you kidding? No way I'm spending 100 on one of those, not when I could get a game jersey for 30 online.
 

Therein lies the problem, and it's not just in jerseys. Take outlet stores like Marshalls. Yes, you can buy brand name products, for example an expensive pair of basketball shoes. You could get a pair of 200$ shoes for less than half that there. However, the colors may be mismatched. Small details may be missing. But for a person who doesn't earn enough to get ripped off by Air Jordan proper, why not get shoes that are pretty much the same for less than half the price? 

A Leafs podcast I listen to had a guest on a few weeks back, who said he doesn't have an NHL 'premier' jersey because he can get authentic or game worn ones online for the same price or less, and said he's literally never paid more than 120 for a jersey. The NHL has to realize that they could make mountains of money off of us by just lowering the price and raising the quality a little. Make that 130$ Islanders jersey I talked about a few posts back 99$ and then we'll talk.

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32 minutes ago, Jamarquan said:

While I don't own an NHL jersey anymore, I do have jerseys from other sports from when I was younger. Jerseys sold by their respective leagues, with the exception of the KHL (whose jersey manufacturer, Lutch sells authentics on their site.) are just awful.

Absolutely. The NHL and other leagues know that they can sell these jerseys, but if they think they're selling quality they're out of their minds. $225 for your favorite team's 'premier' jersey with a nameplate and number? Absolutely not. The NFL and kids jerseys are even worse. Those are just awful. Pick your favorite team in the NFL, for me it's the Buffalo Bills. A kids jersey, with decals that are basically painted on, is 75 dollars, and an adult's is 100. Are you kidding? No way I'm spending 100 on one of those, not when I could get a game jersey for 30 online.
 

Therein lies the problem, and it's not just in jerseys. Take outlet stores like Marshalls. Yes, you can buy brand name products, for example an expensive pair of basketball shoes. You could get a pair of 200$ shoes for less than half that there. However, the colors may be mismatched. Small details may be missing. But for a person who doesn't earn enough to get ripped off by Air Jordan proper, why not get shoes that are pretty much the same for less than half the price? 

A Leafs podcast I listen to had a guest on a few weeks back, who said he doesn't have an NHL 'premier' jersey because he can get authentic or game worn ones online for the same price or less, and said he's literally never paid more than 120 for a jersey. The NHL has to realize that they could make mountains of money off of us by just lowering the price and raising the quality a little. Make that 130$ Islanders jersey I talked about a few posts back 99$ and then we'll talk.

But there is also a big ethical difference between buying seconds/overstock and buying fake/counterfeit. So that's not exactly a fair comparison, though I understand the point you were making.

BTW - Leafs Lunch or Overdrive? I heart Andi but I find her show boring. Overdrive on the other hand I listen to daily. It makes my commutes much more tolerable.

 

And just for fun, here's a hypothetical for you all... if the counterfeit jerseys were actually really good with accurate details rather than the hilariously bad quality they are today, would that change your perception or stance on it? 

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Howdy,

 

Another example.  I went to my first Walleye game last night.  I'm sorta a jersey idiot, always looking at ebay for used 'weird' jerseys from teams related to where I or my wife grew up, cool logos, or whatever.  I think I've got something like 25 hockey jerseys across all the types and I've been playing for a year at this point?

Anyway, I like the Walleye logo and that they're from Toledo.  I looked at their jerseys and was predisposed to wanting one.  They wanted $130 for a non-name/number jersey with a glued on crest.  Um... No.  Make it half that and perhaps we'll talk.  And I cannot believe that at $60 they still aren't making a TON of money on that jersey and I bet I'm not the only person in that arena that has a similar value proposition.

 

Mark

(I think the most I've paid for any jersey is $40?  And yeah, most have been used)

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Howdy,

22 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

And just for fun, here's a hypothetical for you all... if the counterfeit jerseys were actually really good with accurate details rather than the hilariously bad quality they are today, would that change your perception or stance on it? 

 

No question I buy the counterfeit.  There's just no way in hell I'm buying the authentic jersey at the prices they're charging, so its either the counterfeit or none.

But I'd rather pay an extra $20/whatever and get a legit one, both from a moral as well as a "I'd like to have more assurance I'm not going to get a rock in a box" standpoint.

Similarly, I'm happy to pay for nhl.tv to watch hockey (well, plus Yonder).  It "just works" and is (mostly) legal.  But I'm not going to get a cable tv subscription, so if nhl.tv & yonder didn't exist, then my only choice to watch would be illegal streams / torrents / whatever.

Mark

Edited by marka

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43 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

But there is also a big ethical difference between buying seconds/overstock and buying fake/counterfeit. So that's not exactly a fair comparison, though I understand the point you were making.

BTW - Leafs Lunch or Overdrive? I heart Andi but I find her show boring. Overdrive on the other hand I listen to daily. It makes my commutes much more tolerable.

 

And just for fun, here's a hypothetical for you all... if the counterfeit jerseys were actually really good with accurate details rather than the hilariously bad quality they are today, would that change your perception or stance on it? 

 

Steve Dangle Podcast - Sportsnet. He does a video after every Leafs game and has made them my second team. The guys are insane and if you're over 25 it may be too much but I like it.

Part of the buying overstock comparison was consumer psychology - which I haven't studied but I know enough as to why Marshalls and other similar stores are still around. 

I wouldn't buy NHL jerseys on principle, but counterfeit is a minefield. If there were a reliable way to get cheap fake jerseys that were close enough to the real ones (and we should all get free money too), then maybe.

Edited by Jamarquan

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1 hour ago, marka said:

Howdy,

 

No question I buy the counterfeit.  There's just no way in hell I'm buying the authentic jersey at the prices they're charging, so its either the counterfeit or none.

But I'd rather pay an extra $20/whatever and get a legit one, both from a moral as well as a "I'd like to have more assurance I'm not going to get a rock in a box" standpoint.

Similarly, I'm happy to pay for nhl.tv to watch hockey (well, plus Yonder).  It "just works" and is (mostly) legal.  But I'm not going to get a cable tv subscription, so if nhl.tv & yonder didn't exist, then my only choice to watch would be illegal streams / torrents / whatever.

Mark

Yea before NHL.tv was decent it was hockeystreams. I'm lucky that I mostly can see leaf games without blackouts unless they're in California. Need yonder for kings games though. Whatever, they get my money either way. 

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38 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Ah I watch Dangles fan reaction videos but I find his podcasts really annoying. I un-subscribed after listening to two episodes. 

 

I enjoy it, but that's probably because I'm younger than they are. 

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On 12/31/2016 at 8:46 PM, Jamarquan said:

While I don't own an NHL jersey anymore, I do have jerseys from other sports from when I was younger. Jerseys sold by their respective leagues, with the exception of the KHL (whose jersey manufacturer, Lutch sells authentics on their site.) are just awful.

Absolutely. The NHL and other leagues know that they can sell these jerseys, but if they think they're selling quality they're out of their minds. $225 for your favorite team's 'premier' jersey with a nameplate and number? Absolutely not. The NFL and kids jerseys are even worse. Those are just awful. Pick your favorite team in the NFL, for me it's the Buffalo Bills. A kids jersey, with decals that are basically painted on, is 75 dollars, and an adult's is 100. Are you kidding? No way I'm spending 100 on one of those, not when I could get a game jersey for 30 online.
 

Therein lies the problem, and it's not just in jerseys. Take outlet stores like Marshalls. Yes, you can buy brand name products, for example an expensive pair of basketball shoes. You could get a pair of 200$ shoes for less than half that there. However, the colors may be mismatched. Small details may be missing. But for a person who doesn't earn enough to get ripped off by Air Jordan proper, why not get shoes that are pretty much the same for less than half the price? 

A Leafs podcast I listen to had a guest on a few weeks back, who said he doesn't have an NHL 'premier' jersey because he can get authentic or game worn ones online for the same price or less, and said he's literally never paid more than 120 for a jersey. The NHL has to realize that they could make mountains of money off of us by just lowering the price and raising the quality a little. Make that 130$ Islanders jersey I talked about a few posts back 99$ and then we'll talk.

Not to bump, but that guest was MSH's very own @Hills. I totally forgot.

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On 2017-5-10 at 11:00 PM, Jamarquan said:

Not to bump, but that guest was MSH's very own @Hills. I totally forgot.

I can't believe I never saw this thread haha. Glad someone listened to it and I hope I wasn't super boring. But to clear things up, I do have the Premiers but I won't pay more than $40 for them and they have to be fairly special (like Bruins Winter Classic with the fuzzy bear). I've also paid more than $120 for some, but never paid close to that for a replica.

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1 hour ago, Hills said:

I can't believe I never saw this thread haha. Glad someone listened to it and I hope I wasn't super boring. But to clear things up, I do have the Premiers but I won't pay more than $40 for them and they have to be fairly special (like Bruins Winter Classic with the fuzzy bear). I've also paid more than $120 for some, but never paid close to that for a replica.

Where did you say you could find jerseys? I was at the NHL Store in NYC yesterday and a replica was 'discounted' to $95.

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I didn't, there are some places on ebay that you can find decent prices but I always look out for random sales.

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I had an uncle show me some jerseys...literally within 3 seconds of seeing it the 1st word out of my mouth was FAKE...He was not toally thrilled that I could ID it that fast...But I told him I know the little details that make it a "Replica" and not a counterfeit jersey...Bottom line is that they look like garbage (IMO).

I'm old enough to not care for anymore jerseys....to me just buy a Player T-Shirt...what does the jersey do for anyone???

You date yourself in time from either the players on the jersey or the brand that sold the jerseys at the time.  My kids haven't asked for jerseys, but they do wear my old ones.

 

my 18 y.o. wears my mid 80's jersey from Hawks Supplier Gunzo's, the 14 y.o. get the big tent (size 54) (1991) hawks Authentic game weight CCM jersey.  I have 2 other jerseys ... a Starter Replica and a Pro Player replica.  I really like the Starter Replica.

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