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cause4alarm

Why haven't carbon fiber holders taken off?

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I think only VH and Supertacks are carbon-fiber. Besides, have holders were a concern?

Traditional carbon-fiber is layered fabric and resin. I do not think this would be an appropriate method for a small object such as holder. Casting holders out of the resin filled with carbon pellets might be interesting, but probably not any better than current plastic holders. I am pretty sure this idea have been tossed around, but probably not worth the effort.

VH I think makes a one piece goalie skate, not sure what is it and what is the verdict on that though.

What kind of performance improvement are you thinking about?

Edited by Kgbeast

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It'd probably be too fragile. Skate holders take a lot of abuse and that's the LAST thing you want breaking on the ice. Not to mention the weight savings would probably be minimal. 100 grams or so maybe more, maybe less.

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It has to flex. If too stiff, the torque generated will be passed down to the steel, resulting in breakage. 

So to accomplish a carbon fiber holder, it must be tuned to compensate for that. 

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8 hours ago, cause4alarm said:

Boots are all carbon fiber now, right?

Does a carbon fiber holder not improve performance too?

Who's boot is all Carbon Fiber?

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9 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

Verbero makes one, but saying all boots are carbon-fiber is pretty far from accurate.

Exactly.  People hear Composite and think Carbon Fiber.

Try Googling CURV COMPOSITE.  

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Okay, I don't really know the difference b/w carbon fiber and composite and will look into that.  What are today's high-end boots made of nowadays?

What are outsoles made from?  I thought that was carbon fiber, at least.

 

The main reason I'm asking is because I haven't gotten new skates in a long time.  The last pair of skates I bought at full price were Bauer 8090s for like $300.  Today's top of the line skates indicate inflation of about 300%!

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I think the skates that are similar or even a little better in performance than $300 skates back 10 years ago are around $300 today or even cheaper on clearance. It is just top of the line skates today are well above in performance and technology than the top of the line back then and the prices follow.

Outsoles today are made of variety of composites. Carbon-fiber, nylon-fiber, texalite, pvc,  and number of other plastics some of which are proprietary. Carbon-fiber is not necessarily the top of the line material for skates, but it is easier to market as people dig the texture as a hispec and think that carbon fiber is the bees knees. Rightfully so, but  few other composites are equally good in performance. Curv for example or whatever they make FT1 out of. There are also two camps now, one that is all over the single piece, single composite construction, vs other which thinks that different areas of the boot should be made out of different materials and only outsole needs to be hardhat rigid.

just like some stand by aggressive forward pitch and increased rigidity of the holders, while other dead set on neutral pitch and more flexible holder.

Edited by Kgbeast

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12 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

It has to flex. If too stiff, the torque generated will be passed down to the steel, resulting in breakage. 

So to accomplish a carbon fiber holder, it must be tuned to compensate for that. 

This leads me to some (possibly opposing) follow ups points/questions that might require correction or further clarification.

 

1. The impression I've always gotten is that skate stiffness is a desirable attribute because that will lead to superior power transfer.  

It seems that a reasonable assumption would be that you'd want somewhat uniform stiffness from the boot (where I'm assuming there may be some carbon fiber pieces at least) all the way to the blade.

 

2. Generally, how flexible is skate steel itself?  Is it supposed to yield and be a little flexy or be fairly stiff?

 

3. Did Easton in fact discontinue Razor Bladz because of excessive steel breakage?

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5 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

I think the skates that are similar or even a little better in performance than $300 skates back 10 years ago are around $300 today or even cheaper on clearance. It is just top of the line skates today are well above in performance and technology than the top of the line back then and the prices follow.

Outsoles today are made of variety of composites. Carbon-fiber, nylon-fiber, texalite, pvc,  and number of other plastics some of which are proprietary. Carbon-fiber is not necessarily the top of the line material for skates, but it is easier to market as people dig the texture as a hispec and think that carbon fiber is the bees knees. Rightfully so, but  few other composites are equally good in performance. Curv for example or whatever they make FT1 out of. There are also two camps now, one that is all over the single pice, single composite construction, vs other which thinks that different areas of the boot should be made out of different materials and only outsole needs to be hardhat rigid.

just like some stand by aggressive forward pitch and increased rigidity of the holders, while other dead set on neutral pitch and more flexible holder.

My skates came from the final generations of the traditional stitched boot.  Stiff, but not rock hard like what followed shortly after (I want to say, starting from the One90 line?).  As far as I can tell, the biggest evolution seems to be in the boot.  

On the surface, holders don't seem to look much different.

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I didn't know there was part of any skates that are pure carbon fiber. Carbon fiber holders would be amazing because of the weight savings but cf can crack/shatter too. And it's also very expensive.

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I would think the rivet holes would be particularly susceptible to breaking/cracking.

That's not to say that rivets are the only way to mount a holder. Perhaps there is another solution here also. Or are two pieces are even the way to go. Maybe eventually someone will begin to manufacture a custom one piece skate. 

 

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You might want some granularity. In one piece, you brake a holder and it is $xxx down the drain. What possible advantage is there in one piece hockey skate?

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On 8/18/2017 at 4:28 AM, Kgbeast said:

 Casting holders out of the resin filled with carbon pellets might be interesting, but probably not any better than current plastic holders. I am pretty sure this idea have been tossed around, but probably not worth the effort.

 

What are you talking about

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