VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[boo10 323]

39 minutes ago, Ashphil said:

I've been a long-time reader of this thread, and got my True skates a week ago - only very minor post-fit fettling has left me with the most comfortable skates I've ever had - in terms of the fit, I'm really pleased. 

However, I've got one question about the holders. I'm using the True (Step?) holders and Step steel, even after a week the holder is starting to split at the front, only 1-2mm, but still... As per instructions, I checked the tightness of the blades after heat forming, and after first skating. Is this something other people have also experienced, and is just the steel 'bedding in' to the holder? Or is this something I need to take further? (I'm in Europe so would be without the skates for significant time if they need to be sent back for evaluation).

 

Here's a Flickr link (which hopefully works) to show what I mean...

 

That's an annoyance, but will not compromise the integrity of the holder.  It's actually quite common for incompetent sharpeners to shave that part of the holder right off.

[VegasHockey 1256]

1 hour ago, boo10 said:

That's an annoyance, but will not compromise the integrity of the holder.  It's actually quite common for incompetent sharpeners to shave that part of the holder right off.

Agreed. WIll not compromise the structural integrity of the holders but I can understand how it can be annoying visually especially on a new pair of skates. You can always email True and ask them if they will send you a replacement holder. The downside would be needing to get the holder swapped. Personally, I would just leave it as is. 

[Hills 709]

I have that damage on my goalie skates from what I imagine posts or pucks. No issues over a year in with it.

[D1VE 9]

Hi all! 

Another longtime lurker who recently took the plunge into True skates. Given all the resident experts here, I wanted to pose this question: how often do you see skates come back with too much space/too much length in the boot? 

Mine came in and they look great, but I find myself still having heel slippage when skating, and I find I have a ton of space if I slide my feet up in my boot (enough that I could take a photo of the blue footbed showing behind my heel) and even more so if I pull the little pad out they masking taped into my toebox. I also find myself having to crank down  on my laces to get what feels like a tight, fully form fit to my foot. I really want as little negative space as possible and expected to get a boot basically exact to my foot size...should I talk to True about what seems to be quite a bit of extra boot space? 

Thanks for your input ahead of time!

[VegasHockey 1256]

45 minutes ago, D1VE said:

Hi all! 

Another longtime lurker who recently took the plunge into True skates. Given all the resident experts here, I wanted to pose this question: how often do you see skates come back with too much space/too much length in the boot? 

Mine came in and they look great, but I find myself still having heel slippage when skating, and I find I have a ton of space if I slide my feet up in my boot (enough that I could take a photo of the blue footbed showing behind my heel) and even more so if I pull the little pad out they masking taped into my toebox. I also find myself having to crank down  on my laces to get what feels like a tight, fully form fit to my foot. I really want as little negative space as possible and expected to get a boot basically exact to my foot size...should I talk to True about what seems to be quite a bit of extra boot space? 

Thanks for your input ahead of time!

Did you specify these specifics of how you wanted the skates to fit when you were getting scanned for the skates? What skates did you have before the True skates? 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Nicholas G

[shoot_the_goalie 277]

59 minutes ago, D1VE said:

Hi all! 

Another longtime lurker who recently took the plunge into True skates. Given all the resident experts here, I wanted to pose this question: how often do you see skates come back with too much space/too much length in the boot? 

Mine came in and they look great, but I find myself still having heel slippage when skating, and I find I have a ton of space if I slide my feet up in my boot (enough that I could take a photo of the blue footbed showing behind my heel) and even more so if I pull the little pad out they masking taped into my toebox. I also find myself having to crank down  on my laces to get what feels like a tight, fully form fit to my foot. I really want as little negative space as possible and expected to get a boot basically exact to my foot size...should I talk to True about what seems to be quite a bit of extra boot space? 

Thanks for your input ahead of time!

Also, what time of day did you do the scan?  and what time of day do you predominantly skate?

[Sniper9 515]

 

13 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Also, what time of day did you do the scan?  and what time of day do you predominantly skate?

Unless it was baked and moulded improperly this shouldn't make that much of a difference to the point where his heel is slipping and there is that much room. Another flag is again them filling the toe box to decrease skate length. 

There is no reason why he has to crank on his laces to get a snug fit (again if baked properly). This is starting to get worrisome.  Stuffing the toe box is no way to have a skate fit , especially when you are paying for a custom skate. There are times where it's acceptable (when you're in between holder sizes) and are possibly just decreasing a size by a 1/4 , but even then I find it somewhat unacceptable if you are paying for and expecting a total custom skate. 

I love my trues but it seems like qc and overall finish is getting worse.... To the point I don't know if I'll risk getting another pair in a few years. At least with Bauer and ccm, I can try the skates in store and inspect them before I buy them. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Sniper9

[Sniper9 515]

1 hour ago, D1VE said:

Hi all! 

Another longtime lurker who recently took the plunge into True skates. Given all the resident experts here, I wanted to pose this question: how often do you see skates come back with too much space/too much length in the boot? 

Mine came in and they look great, but I find myself still having heel slippage when skating, and I find I have a ton of space if I slide my feet up in my boot (enough that I could take a photo of the blue footbed showing behind my heel) and even more so if I pull the little pad out they masking taped into my toebox. I also find myself having to crank down  on my laces to get what feels like a tight, fully form fit to my foot. I really want as little negative space as possible and expected to get a boot basically exact to my foot size...should I talk to True about what seems to be quite a bit of extra boot space? 

Thanks for your input ahead of time!

Make sure that when u push your feet all the way up to the toe box that ur feet aren't curled as they may naturally do so when your toes start to press up against the toe box making the gap between your heel and the skate more than it really is. 

Also, when you push your toes forward make sure your weight is down on your skates. If you aren't weight bearing your feet aren't fully flattened out and will appear shorter than if they were bearing weight. You can test this by sitting and measuring your feet vs standing in a lunge position. That's why you get scanned when in that position. When I have my skates on, my toes don't brush the toe cap, but when I put weight on to the skate/stride, my toes brush the toe cap. 

I would try re baking them again and see how that feels. Really remember to kick ur heel into the heel pocket when you re mould them. There are lots of YouTube videos on heat moulding etc on Trues youtube account which might help get that snug fit.

Can you take pics of your issues you posted?

Btw. Where did you get scanned. 

[D1VE 9]

45 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Did you specify these specifics of how you wanted the skates to fit when you were getting scanned for the skates? What skates did you have before the True skates? 

I wasn't aware how in-depth I was to go with my requests. Honestly, the guy filling out my info at my LHS (Pure Hockey) was pretty clueless as to what all was even available for Trues, let alone being able tell me I could request specifics. I actually had to explain to HIM that different felt colors were available, as well as liner types. I was skating in Bauer Vapor X600's in 9D, which was definitely NOT the right size for me. Before committing to Trues, I was fitting in 8-8.5EE in Jetspeed FT1s. I went back and forth with True, and asked both True and the Pure Hockey guy said my previous boot size should have no bearing on my sizing. However, when I pressed True about details regarding my skates, they said my scans matched a size 9. I don't believe that for a second, based off my previous skates being a 9. If you have any suggestions, should I need to have another go with True, I'd certainly appreciate it! I heard something about "pro fit", but I'm not totally sure if that's a thing.

30 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Also, what time of day did you do the scan?  and what time of day do you predominantly skate?

I got scanned in the afternoon, but I worked from home that day, so no chances of my feet being swollen or anything like that, if that's where you're going with it. 🙂

17 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

 

Unless it was baked and moulded improperly this shouldn't make that much of a difference to the point where his heel is slipping and there is that much room. Another flag is again them filling the toe box to decrease skate length. 

There is no reason why he has to crank on his laces to get a snug fit (again if baked properly). This is starting to get worrisome.  Stuffing the toe box is no way to have a skate fit , especially when you are paying for a custom skate. There are times where it's acceptable (when you're in between holder sizes) and are possibly just decreasing a size by a 1/4 , but even then I find it somewhat unacceptable if you are paying for and expecting a total custom skate. 

I love my trues but it seems like qc and overall finish is getting worse.... To the point I don't know if I'll risk getting another pair in a few years. At least with Bauer and ccm, I can try the skates in store and inspect them before I buy them. 

I don't want to mislead you when I saw "crank" on my laces...by all means, I don't mean I'm using a lace hook or anything, but judging from how effortless everyone else seems to lace with theirs, I definitely feel like I have to yank a bit more than just "snug", if you know what I mean? I was pretty bummed about the toe box too, I was fully prepared to be ready to adapt to a shorter holder and blade, so imagine my surprise when the exact same length as my last pair of skates arrived.

9 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Make sure that when u push your feet all the way up to the toe box that ur feet aren't curled as they may naturally do so when your toes start to press up against the toe box making the gap between your heel and the skate more than it really is. 

Also, when you push your toes forward make sure your weight is down on your skates. If you aren't weight bearing your feet aren't fully flattened out and will appear shorter than if they were bearing weight. You can test this by sitting and measuring your feet vs standing in a lunge position. That's why you get scanned when in that position. When I have my skates on, my toes don't brush the toe cap, but when I put weight on to the skate/stride, my toes brush the toe cap. 

I would try re baking them again and see how that feels. Really remember to kick ur heel into the heel pocket when you re mould them. There are lots of YouTube videos on heat moulding etc on Trues youtube account which might help get that snug fit.

Can you take pics of your issues you posted?

Btw. Where did you get scanned. 

I've baked them twice now and attempted both the sensor and ratchet clamp techniques to try and form a bit more around my ankle/heel, thus locking my foot in a bit more. I had to do it without assistance from the LHS guys because quite honestly, they said they never had to do it before. Unfortunately for me, there's only a few places in the immediate area that even off Trues, so I figured this would be the safest bet, since they were the first to offer them. I was scanned at a Pure Hockey. FWIW, I was scanned by the manager who only really was the one to deal with True there, so once again, figured I was safe. I'll definitely go back and test again, but I tried to account for positioning and the spread of the foot as it was bearing weight. I'll try to load a few pictures for reference soon.

 Also, apologies if I broke any sort of etiquette by responding in-line to everyone! Blame the new guy! 🙂

Thanks for all the info so far, seriously. I really do like the skates, I just want them to fit as well as I know they should/can.

[Sniper9 515]

If they don't fit, they don't fit.  Are your feet different sizes by the way. With my feet me left is really more a 8d on dress shoes but my right is more a 7.5ee. The width of my feet fit the 8d but because my right is shorter it slips in an 8d. A 7.5d is good length but width is too narrow.

The fact you said you're really a 8.5ee and not a 9d makes me wonder which size you truly are. If one foot is bigger than the other it doesn't surprise me that one boot you are a 9 in length and the other you're a 8.5.  did they stuff both toe boxes or just the one skate. 

Go back to pure, and also email true advising of the problem so they get a heads up. Pure should resolve this for you (they better). People shouldnt put their old skate sizes unless they know for sure what their proper size is and proper skate model. Alot of people probably wear the wrong model skate for their feet even if they have the right size.  Anyways. I hope it works out for you and this isn't another smu ordeal. 

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

10 hours ago, D1VE said:

 Also, apologies if I broke any sort of etiquette by responding in-line to everyone! Blame the new guy! 🙂

Actually, no, it was perfect.

(We had a couple of situations in which someone wasn't using the Multi-Quote option.)

[VegasHockey 1256]

12 hours ago, D1VE said:

I wasn't aware how in-depth I was to go with my requests. Honestly, the guy filling out my info at my LHS (Pure Hockey) was pretty clueless as to what all was even available for Trues, let alone being able tell me I could request specifics. I actually had to explain to HIM that different felt colors were available, as well as liner types. I was skating in Bauer Vapor X600's in 9D, which was definitely NOT the right size for me. Before committing to Trues, I was fitting in 8-8.5EE in Jetspeed FT1s. I went back and forth with True, and asked both True and the Pure Hockey guy said my previous boot size should have no bearing on my sizing. However, when I pressed True about details regarding my skates, they said my scans matched a size 9. I don't believe that for a second, based off my previous skates being a 9. If you have any suggestions, should I need to have another go with True, I'd certainly appreciate it! I heard something about "pro fit", but I'm not totally sure if that's a thing.

I got scanned in the afternoon, but I worked from home that day, so no chances of my feet being swollen or anything like that, if that's where you're going with it. 🙂

I don't want to mislead you when I saw "crank" on my laces...by all means, I don't mean I'm using a lace hook or anything, but judging from how effortless everyone else seems to lace with theirs, I definitely feel like I have to yank a bit more than just "snug", if you know what I mean? I was pretty bummed about the toe box too, I was fully prepared to be ready to adapt to a shorter holder and blade, so imagine my surprise when the exact same length as my last pair of skates arrived.

I've baked them twice now and attempted both the sensor and ratchet clamp techniques to try and form a bit more around my ankle/heel, thus locking my foot in a bit more. I had to do it without assistance from the LHS guys because quite honestly, they said they never had to do it before. Unfortunately for me, there's only a few places in the immediate area that even off Trues, so I figured this would be the safest bet, since they were the first to offer them. I was scanned at a Pure Hockey. FWIW, I was scanned by the manager who only really was the one to deal with True there, so once again, figured I was safe. I'll definitely go back and test again, but I tried to account for positioning and the spread of the foot as it was bearing weight. I'll try to load a few pictures for reference soon.

 Also, apologies if I broke any sort of etiquette by responding in-line to everyone! Blame the new guy! 🙂

Thanks for all the info so far, seriously. I really do like the skates, I just want them to fit as well as I know they should/can.

Not trying to pick on any specific stores, but when I had my first pair of True skates made (before we were a custom fit center) I had my feet scanned and completed the order through a Pure hockey. Similar to you, my first pair of skates fit poorly. I think a lot of problems (not all) that people have posted have been associated with big box stores. My experience was similar, the manager did the scan was not sure about options and the store had only done a couple other scans before and those scans were for goalie skates. My first scans submitted were rejected by True and I had to go back for a second set of scans. When the skates arrived they were also longer than I expected and didn't have the proper fit with the heel lock and such. I specifically use the word expected because I have always skated in a very tight fitting skate since my right foot is a 3/4 size bigger than my left and I didn't like having too much slop In the toebox on retail skates. I tried a few things like stuffing the toe box to take up space but in the end, I had to have them make a new pair of skates. I made sure to note everything in very specific detail for the new pair they were making to get them to fit exactly as I was expecting. This includes providing them with notes on length, width, adjustments to the facings, liner changes, among other things. I am sure if you work with Pure and True they will get you taken care of, neither of them have ever failed me in the past. 

[D1VE 9]

Update: Just spoke with Korey from True (super nice and knowledgeable guy!) who confirmed they'll remake the skates for me, as I did everything they asked me to try first to no avail. 

I inquired into the "pro fit" question, which he said is absolutely a thing available, just by request. (So you have to know about it) He said it's typically something you're asked about at your intial scanning and order submission, and he sounded genuinely shocked when I said nothing even remotely close was asked of me regarding different "fit types" during my scanning. 

I'll definitely do what you did @Nicholas G, note the hell out of everything and ensure this next set comes out as I expected. Korey requested I go back to Pure Hockey and snap photos again on their board, just so they can cross reference when they make the new pair. Sounds like they're going to go over it with a fine-tooth comb this time around!

But the process was absolutely painless, quick discussion and they're all about making it right. Can't ask for more than that!

[shoot_the_goalie 277]

I was scanned for my Trues through Pure Hockey, and the guy who scanned/fitted me was great and super knowledgeable; asked all the right questions and took down all the right info.  After some minor tweaking, my Trues fit perfectly.  Even asked when I predominantly played, due to feet swelling in the later part of the day (thus why I asked the question earlier)

From experiences I've read from the board, I think the negative issues that arise with True skates can be directed back to the initial fit/scan.  In the end, it doesn't matter where you go, as long as you get a fitter who knows what they're doing...not unlike buying skates in the past.

[VegasHockey 1256]

14 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

From experiences I've read from the board, I think the negative issues that arise with True skates can be directed back to the initial fit/scan.  In the end, it doesn't matter where you go, as long as you get a fitter who knows what they're doing...not unlike buying skates in the past.

 

I can agree with that 100% 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Nicholas G

[Sniper9 515]

2 hours ago, D1VE said:

Update: Just spoke with Korey from True (super nice and knowledgeable guy!) who confirmed they'll remake the skates for me, as I did everything they asked me to try first to no avail. 

I inquired into the "pro fit" question, which he said is absolutely a thing available, just by request. (So you have to know about it) He said it's typically something you're asked about at your intial scanning and order submission, and he sounded genuinely shocked when I said nothing even remotely close was asked of me regarding different "fit types" during my scanning. 

I'll definitely do what you did @Nicholas G, note the hell out of everything and ensure this next set comes out as I expected. Korey requested I go back to Pure Hockey and snap photos again on their board, just so they can cross reference when they make the new pair. Sounds like they're going to go over it with a fine-tooth comb this time around!

But the process was absolutely painless, quick discussion and they're all about making it right. Can't ask for more than that!

Do you have to send your skates back?  What exactly is the "pro liner" option anyways. I haven't heard about this until smu mentioned it a few pages ago. Is it just s tan clarino liner or is it the wick liner.. or something completely different?

It is a good idea to get re scanned etc. Having them make another skate from your old scans and pics, i can't see them really being able to change it that much... And if they can, I don't see why they weren't able to make it right with those scans the first time. I think they need to have mandatory questions asked and answered by the fitter from now on before they proceed with the skate build. It would save them a lot of time and money having to remake skates. Simple things such as what you expect the skates to fit in terms of whether u prefer ur toes to brush the toe box or not... Maybe a range in negative space measured in none minimal and moderate (although imo they should all come with as little neg space as possible as default). 

Even maybe going back old school and actually taking measurements of the ankle instep etc.  All would be compare to the scan to ensure everything is accurate, and reduce fitter error .. 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

Does anyone else find it odd that with a 3D scan of your feet they seem to have so many issues, yet they were able to nail it back when you just sent them an outline and some photos? 

[shoot_the_goalie 277]

29 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Does anyone else find it odd that with a 3D scan of your feet they seem to have so many issues, yet they were able to nail it back when you just sent them an outline and some photos? 

That's not necessarily true. I know a few players who had VH skates, which they hand traced, and had similar fit issues. (mostly problems with the angle of the pencil to the foot during the trace)

Either way, both methods aren't fool-proof, and just cause it's custom, doesn't mean it's going to be perfect on the first shot.

[Sniper9 515]

It also has to do with expectations as well.  Someone like me coming from a pretty good fitting retail Bauer would have higher expectations. however, I recently tried on my Bauer's and although they are much lighter the heel lock was atrocious  I never realized this until I had something else to compare to. 

I wonder if fit issues are less noticeable with goalies.... .. any tendies wanna chime in? 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

It also has to do with expectations as well.  Someone like me coming from a pretty good fitting retail Bauer would have higher expectations. however, I recently tried on my Bauer's and although they are much lighter the heel lock was atrocious  I never realized this until I had something else to compare to. 

I wonder if fit issues are less noticeable with goalies.... .. any tendies wanna chime in? 

Right here 🙂 

[Leif 160]

3 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Does anyone else find it odd that with a 3D scan of your feet they seem to have so many issues, yet they were able to nail it back when you just sent them an outline and some photos? 

You can’t make any judgements based on posts on forums. For every person who has issues, and comes online to find out what they can do, there may be huge numbers of satisfied owners who do not post online. Also you don’t know how many they make in a year, the more they make the more likely someone has issues. Certainly some posts here reflect badly on True, but we may see similar reports about CCM and Bauer customs once lots are out in the wild. My LHS is the biggest Bauer custom seller in the U.K. but they’ve only sold ~20. 

As an owner of custom skates, it occurred to me that manufacturers are making a skate that is supposed to fit very closely around a foot requiring tight tolerances. That is no mean feat (no pun intended). And as said expectations are high. I have had to bake my Bauer’s three times to get a near perfect wrap. 

Something that does puzzle me is that a friend who has True skates likes them, and they look good, but he has to really tighten the laces such that his feet go numb. He says he can’t skate if they are not tight. I do wonder if they restrict his ankles flexing when that tight. I tighten my Bauer’s, but nowhere near that tight. 

 

[Sniper9 515]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

You can’t make any judgements based on posts on forums. For every person who has issues, and comes online to find out what they can do, there may be huge numbers of satisfied owners who do not post online. Also you don’t know how many they make in a year, the more they make the more likely someone has issues. Certainly some posts here reflect badly on True, but we may see similar reports about CCM and Bauer customs once lots are out in the wild. My LHS is the biggest Bauer custom seller in the U.K. but they’ve only sold ~20. 

As an owner of custom skates, it occurred to me that manufacturers are making a skate that is supposed to fit very closely around a foot requiring tight tolerances. That is no mean feat (no pun intended). And as said expectations are high. I have had to bake my Bauer’s three times to get a near perfect wrap. 

Something that does puzzle me is that a friend who has True skates likes them, and they look good, but he has to really tighten the laces such that his feet go numb. He says he can’t skate if they are not tight. I do wonder if they restrict his ankles flexing when that tight. I tighten my Bauer’s, but nowhere near that tight. 

 

I tighten my trues just as tight as I did my Bauer's but my trues feel a hell of a lot more snug and locked in. I used to tighten my trues just a bit snugger than during the bake process and that provided a good wrap and lock.

Lately I've tightened it a bit more only bc I wanted s tighter feeling and my laces are getting worn out and probably bc the trues have broken in slightly.

I dont, however, tighten it to the point where my feet go numb, although with the trues it's not hard to over tighten by accident. 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

You can’t make any judgements based on posts on forums. For every person who has issues, and comes online to find out what they can do, there may be huge numbers of satisfied owners who do not post online. Also you don’t know how many they make in a year, the more they make the more likely someone has issues. Certainly some posts here reflect badly on True, but we may see similar reports about CCM and Bauer customs once lots are out in the wild. My LHS is the biggest Bauer custom seller in the U.K. but they’ve only sold ~20. 

As an owner of custom skates, it occurred to me that manufacturers are making a skate that is supposed to fit very closely around a foot requiring tight tolerances. That is no mean feat (no pun intended). And as said expectations are high. I have had to bake my Bauer’s three times to get a near perfect wrap. 

Something that does puzzle me is that a friend who has True skates likes them, and they look good, but he has to really tighten the laces such that his feet go numb. He says he can’t skate if they are not tight. I do wonder if they restrict his ankles flexing when that tight. I tighten my Bauer’s, but nowhere near that tight. 

 

Oh I would definitely not avoid buying them based on this thread, that’s for sure. It was just a coincidence I noticed.

As for the tightness, definitely the opposite. I barely have to tighten my laces at all for the first 4-5 eyelets. They’re just barely taught in that area. 

[D1VE 9]

8 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Do you have to send your skates back?  What exactly is the "pro liner" option anyways. I haven't heard about this until smu mentioned it a few pages ago. Is it just s tan clarino liner or is it the wick liner.. or something completely different?

We haven't gotten to that point yet, I would imagine eventually I'll need to, but with the holiday coming up and all...

And it wasn't a "pro liner" persay, it was a "pro fit". I believe someone wrote about it a bit back who (if memory serves) was actually fitted directly at True. As explained to me, the difference between "pro fit" and the standard "retail fit" is that pro is meant to remove all negative space right from the get-go and and generally be a much tighter fit to your foot. Retail takes into consideration that it may not be everyone's cup of tea to have a second skin-esque skate, or might use thicker socks, looser tightening of laces, etc.

I opted for the standard black clarino liner over the moisture wicking, as they said the clarino is much more durable. Not sure if they even offer the tan clarino anymore, truth be told!

Overall, I know they want to address my heel lock at the factory as well as the extra length. However, I felt like they nailed down my forefoot pretty well. (I have stupidly wide forefeet with pretty narrow ankles) As a matter of fact, when we unboxed and the Pure hockey guys saw the build out of the forefoot on my boots, their response was "holy crap". A day in the life of having Hobbit feet, I guess...

Edited December 21, 2018 by D1VE
Words

[Sniper9 515]

2 hours ago, D1VE said:

We haven't gotten to that point yet, I would imagine eventually I'll need to, but with the holiday coming up and all...

And it wasn't a "pro liner" persay, it was a "pro fit". I believe someone wrote about it a bit back who (if memory serves) was actually fitted directly at True. As explained to me, the difference between "pro fit" and the standard "retail fit" is that pro is meant to remove all negative space right from the get-go and and generally be a much tighter fit to your foot. Retail takes into consideration that it may not be everyone's cup of tea to have a second skin-esque skate, or might use thicker socks, looser tightening of laces, etc.

I opted for the standard black clarino liner over the moisture wicking, as they said the clarino is much more durable. Not sure if they even offer the tan clarino anymore, truth be told!

Overall, I know they want to address my heel lock at the factory as well as the extra length. However, I felt like they nailed down my forefoot pretty well. (I have stupidly wide forefeet with pretty narrow ankles) As a matter of fact, when we unboxed and the Pure hockey guys saw the build out of the forefoot on my boots, their response was "holy crap". A day in the life of having Hobbit feet, I guess...

Thanks for the reply. Hope it works out!