VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Leif 160]

Smu: I have no idea what to say, except maybe you have an unusual foot shape. 

[smu 29]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

Smu: I have no idea what to say, except maybe you have an unusual foot shape. 

Thanks for answering, but no my feet are not unusual, just smaller and correspondingly less volume.

My Bauer skates as I mentioned fit really well, but I did not realize that a D was too large for my heel and ankle area and a C width was all that I needed. But, True seems to be still in the past and using the very wrong first two scans that all I know is that the length is wrong and the same on both. They indicated that a 3rd scan was not needed and told me not to bother to end my foot tracing to make sure of the length nor the volume dimensions I wanted to do for them I was told it was a waste of my time! It was only around December 18 did they tell me that their size for me was 254 mm when I was trying to tell them it was 245 mm at the most and could be close to 240 mm. The 254 probably gave me those 6.5 or 7s way back in September and October I would imagine. Yet just before they start to see that they may have the wrong numbers is when I offered to make a tracing and they say not necessary then suddenly ask me for my Bauer holder size! Once I give it I get the skates almost immediately.

By this point I have already demanded to be called before any skate is made, so that I can have a discussion of what is being done to them as so many things have gone wrong and the time frame has bee ridiculous etc., etc.

Then get an email saying;

1) We have started a new pair for you based on this info.  The length will be built at 246mm based on the feedback below.

2) I have narrowed the heel as well.

3) I am making adjustments to the arch that we have had outstanding results for pronation issues.  As well, I am going to mount the holders a hair medial, to assist as well.

 

There is nothing wrong with my feet that a proper fit won't cure. My feet are not unusual, just on the narrow side of the chart with lower volume that goes along with that, no different than an E or EE, on the other side of the chart.

 

Unusual, no and may be visible in my uploads a month or so ago.

 

Here we go to start over again!

 

Thanks - Alan

 

 

 

 

[Sniper9 517]

3 hours ago, Leif said:

Smu: I have no idea what to say, except maybe you have an unusual foot shape. 

At this point I think he is OCD. He even was adamant my holders were misaligned / not centred from pics alone, and I've used a measuring tape etc to ensure the midline of the holders are centred to the heel and toe box.

 He's reading too much into certain things and I'm questioning if the heel space hes talking about is accurate. Yes his first set of skates were Ill fitting but Im not a believer that measuring the heel space by cramming your foot all the way forward into the tow box is a good way to meausre proper length as most people won't be able to to tell if their toes are curled in the box or not, nor can they properly tell if their feet are flat and bearing weight which maximizes the foot length and width. 

Anyways.  With custom skates it doesn't guarantee painless skates. True/vh is known to be for their painless and comfortable skates but companies like Bauer ccm don't advertise that. Theirs is simply for irregular feet sizes and custom options. 

Lastly, I tried on my buddy's 1x the other day and was surprised as how little heel lock there was. It felt more or less like the same as my 8 year old one100. I was hoping the fit and heel lock would have been made better by Bauer but the truth is the fit felt the same. Hollow and not very supportive vs my true. I let him try my trues and even without lacing them up and not made for his foot, he was amazed at the amount of heel lock the Trues had. 

 

[smu 29]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

At this point I think he is OCD. He even was adamant my holders were misaligned / not centred from pics alone, and I've used a measuring tape etc to ensure the midline of the holders are centred to the heel and toe box.

 He's reading too much into certain things and I'm questioning if the heel space hes talking about is accurate. Yes his first set of skates were Ill fitting but Im not a believer that measuring the heel space by cramming your foot all the way forward into the tow box is a good way to meausre proper length as most people won't be able to to tell if their toes are curled in the box or not, nor can they properly tell if their feet are flat and bearing weight which maximizes the foot length and width. 

Anyways.  With custom skates it doesn't guarantee painless skates. True/vh is known to be for their painless and comfortable skates but companies like Bauer ccm don't advertise that. Theirs is simply for irregular feet sizes and custom options. 

Lastly, I tried on my buddy's 1x the other day and was surprised as how little heel lock there was. It felt more or less like the same as my 8 year old one100. I was hoping the fit and heel lock would have been made better by Bauer but the truth is the fit felt the same. Hollow and not very supportive vs my true. I let him try my trues and even without lacing them up and not made for his foot, he was amazed at the amount of heel lock the Trues had. 

 

Hey Snipe, try waiting for your skates for 3 months and until now the skates are very close. So, when you can say you have gone through what I have don’t call me out with OCD, I now more about skates than you ever will, by the way you talk! 

If you think about calling someone out again know the subject matter, but you never will with this problem. I have had constant issues with True’s quality control and lack of proper communication since the end of September and I asked to have a telephone conversation before True decided to make the last skate, but as usual they go ahead and build them and not from the erroneous information on the length they had, but finally information that I gave them otherwise I would be back to the October / November problem. 

Would you not be a somewat apprehensive if you have gone through what I have with constant errors emanating from True! I did see a possible problem, but I am glad that I have been as vigilant as I have or I would be wearing a size 6.5 or a 7 skate now instead of my 5 to 5.5 now. Too bad you don’t use what you have upstairs at times! Finally I have a good game Thursday and you just seemed to ruin the fun I had. As you said previously, please don’t reply!

Edited January 5, 2019 by smu

[smu 29]

1 minute ago, smu said:

 

 

[Vet88 673]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

He's reading too much into certain things and I'm questioning if the heel space hes talking about is accurate. Yes his first set of skates were Ill fitting but Im not a believer that measuring the heel space by cramming your foot all the way forward into the tow box is a good way to meausre proper length as most people won't be able to to tell if their toes are curled in the box or not, nor can they properly tell if their feet are flat and bearing weight which maximizes the foot length and width. 

Really? I have yet to have ANYONE fail this test when fitting for length (laces out, foot forward till toes "feathering" the toe cap, bend forward and fit the pencil down the back of your heel). "Most people can't tell if their toes are curled in the toe box or not"??? wtf. "nor can they properly tell if their feet are flat and bearing weight" - about the only time this sentence makes any sense is if they are lying on their back and waving their feet in the air....

[Sniper9 517]

14 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

Really? I have yet to have ANYONE fail this test when fitting for length (laces out, foot forward till toes "feathering" the toe cap, bend forward and fit the pencil down the back of your heel). "Most people can't tell if their toes are curled in the toe box or not"??? wtf. "nor can they properly tell if their feet are flat and bearing weight" - about the only time this sentence makes any sense is if they are lying on their back and waving their feet in the air....

If you can't see them actually "feathering" how do you know they are with their toes flat and not somewhat curled? You don't. You are going by what THEY tell you. 

Secondly, your arch and feet change in shape when you are sitting and standing and even in a lunge position (all of which cause your feet to be weight bearing to a certain degree).  Why do you think true has their customers in a lunge position rather than seated or even standing straight up. 

[VegasHockey 1256]

Is this a topic on VH/true skates or how to properly fit a player for skates.....? At this point, it seems everyone comes in here to rant which is getting a bit tiresome. I am not sure I agree that all of these individual topics should be lumped into this single thread, maybe they should have standalone threads? Anyway, just thinking aloud. 

[stick9 881]

1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:

Is this a topic on VH/true skates or how to properly fit a player for skates.....? At this point, it seems everyone comes in here to rant which is getting a bit tiresome. I am not sure I agree that all of these individual topics should be lumped into this single thread, maybe they should have standalone threads? Anyway, just thinking aloud. 

A lot of what goes on here is not exclusive to True, like fit issues, and would probably be best served in another thread where it get the attention it deserves. The problem with this thread is to polarizing so some just stay away. 

This thread had some merit back when things transitioned from VH to True. Now with True and the process being fairly mainstream the need really isn't there. There isn't a separate thread for other brands or models, so why True....

Edited January 5, 2019 by stick9

[VegasHockey 1256]

1 minute ago, stick9 said:

A lot of what goes on here is not exclusive to True, like fit issues, and would probably be best served in another thread where it get the attention it deserves. The problem with this thread is to polarizing so some just stay away. 

This thread had some merit back when things transitioned from VH to True. Now with True and the process being fairly mainstream the need really isn't there. There isn't a separate thread for others, so why True....

Maybe it's time we close this thread then?

[stick9 881]

Just now, Nicholas G said:

Maybe it's time we close this thread then?

It's not up to me, but I think the time is near.

[Leif 160]

6 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

At this point I think he is OCD. He even was adamant my holders were misaligned / not centred from pics alone, and I've used a measuring tape etc to ensure the midline of the holders are centred to the heel and toe box.

 He's reading too much into certain things and I'm questioning if the heel space hes talking about is accurate. Yes his first set of skates were Ill fitting but Im not a believer that measuring the heel space by cramming your foot all the way forward into the tow box is a good way to meausre proper length as most people won't be able to to tell if their toes are curled in the box or not, nor can they properly tell if their feet are flat and bearing weight which maximizes the foot length and width. 

Anyways.  With custom skates it doesn't guarantee painless skates. True/vh is known to be for their painless and comfortable skates but companies like Bauer ccm don't advertise that. Theirs is simply for irregular feet sizes and custom options. 

Lastly, I tried on my buddy's 1x the other day and was surprised as how little heel lock there was. It felt more or less like the same as my 8 year old one100. I was hoping the fit and heel lock would have been made better by Bauer but the truth is the fit felt the same. Hollow and not very supportive vs my true. I let him try my trues and even without lacing them up and not made for his foot, he was amazed at the amount of heel lock the Trues had. 

 

From previous posts it’s quite obvious that he has had badly fitting skates from True, at least twice. As for the current ones, I can only accept what he says. Honestly I think he’d be better off getting his money back and going with Bauer or CCM. I don’t doubt the quality of True skates for most people but it looks like they failed smu/Alan. 

[Vet88 673]

5 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

If you can't see them actually "feathering" how do you know they are with their toes flat and not somewhat curled? You don't. You are going by what THEY tell you. 

Secondly, your arch and feet change in shape when you are sitting and standing and even in a lunge position (all of which cause your feet to be weight bearing to a certain degree).  Why do you think true has their customers in a lunge position rather than seated or even standing straight up. 

Thanks but I'll trust my experience from years of fitting skaters (hockey and figure, ice and inline) into skates. 

But to the thread subject, it's reasonably self explanatory why True want you in a lunge position for the scan. Ironically it's at odds to the baking process, at the point where you really need to be weight bearing in a skating position you can't be because of the risks of distorting the boot and even True haven't solved this one yet.

[smu 29]

1 hour ago, Vet88 said:

Thanks but I'll trust my experience from years of fitting skaters (hockey and figure, ice and inline) into skates. 

But to the thread subject, it's reasonably self explanatory why True want you in a lunge position for the scan. Ironically it's at odds to the baking process, at the point where you really need to be weight bearing in a skating position you can't be because of the risks of distorting the boot and even True haven't solved this one yet.

Vet88,

I have been told that if a heavy person stands while the boots are cooling that the hot holders can be warped (along wit the blade). It sounds plausible, but wit my weight at 130 lbs I suppose I could do it, but I would not be allowed and would not want to take a chance for more blades being curved!

Alan

[Vet88 673]

Whilst that may apply to a heavy person, that isn't the main concern. Skates, unless they are modified customs, are designed for a neutrally aligned ankle. Put a new skater in them or someone who pronates (an estimated 70% of the population pronate and it is more prominent in 1st world countries) and when they stand in a soft boot the general result is a wobble inwards. Now the boot has additional pressure on primarily the inner ankle and in its soft state it bends and opens up and now you have a looser fit. Sitting puts the ankle into a neutrally aligned position and as manufacturers know that most LHS employees have very little knowledge in the foot alignment field, sitting is the simplest and safest option to improve the chances of a good fit. For a boot that goes really soft like mako or true, any off center pressure is bad news.

[smu 29]

7 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Maybe it's time we close this thread then?

No problem, but this was not supposed to have gone off the tracks, some questions were asked and answered. It was not until Snipr got involved do this get into a heated affair with his comment.

In a new thread I wonder now who would be a person to contact at True? The CEO? This would be so we can get things right or just to get answers as to why certain things were done or happened? Again I go back to saying that I have alerted / advised my contact at True that there really should be better QC and as well more communication with the customers and to the LHS when things go wrong.

I know this time it was small thing, a rivet was not seated properly and I played my first game with one rivet almost coming through just below my toe. I was not about to try and take these recently baked skates off my feet at the bench either as I would the have missed the game!

I did get that fixed at my LHS, but there have been so many issues like this as it seems that no attention is paid to the overall look at the product before it leaves the factory. It is just unbelievable!  I have had my skates back 4 times and that is not to say I have had 4 pairs of skates, but in everyone there was some QC issues among others that went along with the main problem.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

10 hours ago, stick9 said:

A lot of what goes on here is not exclusive to True, like fit issues, and would probably be best served in another thread where it get the attention it deserves. The problem with this thread is to polarizing so some just stay away. 

This thread had some merit back when things transitioned from VH to True. Now with True and the process being fairly mainstream the need really isn't there. There isn't a separate thread for other brands or models, so why True....

Many other products have their own thread. That’s kind of the point. The last thing you want is for every question about the same product to be in a new thread.

[stick9 881]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

Many other products have their own thread. That’s kind of the point. The last thing you want is for every question about the same product to be in a new thread.

I agree....sort of. However.

1 The thread has become so decisive where certain people will not read it, thus not contributing. Some of those members are experienced fitters who could add a great deal to the conversation. That's actually a negative.

2 The thread is so massive you can't possibly read through it to find an answer or the info you seek. 

3 The polarizing nature of the thread in my opinion is not a good look for product, the brand or the site itself.

4 Locking it down doesn't mean it goes away. If it were up to me, I'd lock, start a new one linking the old one and set some guidelines as to what goes where, maybe a catch all custom skate thread is where it's at....

5 I think members would be better served bring their True questions to the general public. They'd get more input from a broader ranger of members and knowledge bases. It would cut back on the bickering and pom-pom waving. 

Again, it's not up to me. Just thinking out loud.

There is one tiny little thing that irkes me. Why do some True owners feel the need to carry water for the company? Look through other threads. Anytime there is a fit question, you'll get a few True owners posting "get Trues". They aren't answering the question asked or taking into account the context in which it was asked.

Edited January 5, 2019 by stick9

[smu 29]

4 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Whilst that may apply to a heavy person, that isn't the main concern. Skates, unless they are modified customs, are designed for a neutrally aligned ankle. Put a new skater in them or someone who pronates (an estimated 70% of the population pronate and it is more prominent in 1st world countries) and when they stand in a soft boot the general result is a wobble inwards. Now the boot has additional pressure on primarily the inner ankle and in its soft state it bends and opens up and now you have a looser fit. Sitting puts the ankle into a neutrally aligned position and as manufacturers know that most LHS employees have very little knowledge in the foot alignment field, sitting is the simplest and safest option to improve the chances of a good fit. For a boot that goes really soft like mako or true, any off center pressure is bad news.

You are on the right track with the pronation or supination topic, someone tried to tell me a month or so ago that there are not many of us pronators!

Getting back to the heel issue, mine is just about the exact same size as the larger pair I had before. I was also told that these are not custom outsoles and (my words - I get what I get) then I was told an attempt would be made to make the heel bottom a bit smaller, but really there is not much difference from the last time, but my main goal, with True, was to get a narrower skate! 

I need a few more games before I make any assessment. I want to make sure I do have that heel lock and then if the skates are too wide I fall into exactly what you are saying, a pronation issue down the road, then what. Will True fix them for a price or not deal with me at all. To this point I can say that I have done nothing wrong, I have kept calm and cool. I am perturbed about the long wait though and did not complain for sometime contrary to what I should have done.

Alan

[start_today 757]

There was a long unwieldy custom Bauer thread for a long time, when they were the main custom game in town. 

Theres a long unwieldy Mako thread. A long unwieldy Base thread. There was a long unwieldy Sprung thead in the roller section. 

We have typically been served well by keeping specific info about a product in one thread. If I’m new to a product, I’d rather have it all in one place, than have to fumble through a million small threads with 4 posts. 

If the product cycle weren’t so quick now, you'd see long threads on sticks and skates. Products disappear too quickly to build up more involved threads and discussion. 

[SILVER82 8]

15 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Is this a topic on VH/true skates or how to properly fit a player for skates.....? At this point, it seems everyone comes in here to rant which is getting a bit tiresome. I am not sure I agree that all of these individual topics should be lumped into this single thread, maybe they should have standalone threads? Anyway, just thinking aloud. 

I’ve been waiting for someone to say this. I keep checking on this thread hoping that there is info about the actual skates. I get people have issues but maybe limit to one post or start a new topic. 

In an attempt to get a new topic going. Has anyone heard of any alterations coming to the true skates? I know last year a new carbon weave was used.   Any feedback or thoughts on this.

 

 

[flip12 699]

3 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Many other products have their own thread. That’s kind of the point. The last thing you want is for every question about the same product to be in a new thread.

I think a lot of subtopics that end up in these mega topics could be best served with their own smaller topics. Maybe mega threads or mega topics like this one could be their own forum or forum category, and the related subtopics could be individually threaded below. Stack Overflow has a good approach for achieving that level of granularity.

2 hours ago, stick9 said:

2. The thread is so massive you can't possibly read through it to find an answer or the info you seek. 

This is huge. For people interested in the bigger topics like this or the Mako topic, it's frustrating to be stuck reading Q/A along the lines of "this thread is too long, so I'm just going to ask without having checked if my question has already been answered." Breaking up the mega threads could be a powerful boost in information density.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

Let’s let’s go ahead and get back on topic so we don’t end up with pages of complaining about there being pages of complaining. 

[Sk8Stk 39]

On 1/4/2019 at 12:48 AM, Superjet said:

I won’t disagree that most people only bother to review things when they’ve had a bad experience, but LOL this is such BS. 

Why isn’t everyone made aware of a “Pro fit” option?  I wasn’t, even afer an ill fitting first pair.   Also you cant claim everyone was satisfied after the remake. The second pair I had made fit no different than the first even after you spent two hours trying to narrow the heels. I gave up on them but I still say True does not have the capability to make a skate that propely fits a smaller foot with a narrow heel.  Not “Truly Custom” as advertised. 

Please elaborate on what you think i'm saying is incorrect. 

Also, everyone that has allowed me to adjust their skates further has been satisfied. There have been one or two customers that do not want to make adjustments (normally, these are customers who are against the brand from the starting point and want the skates to not fit when they arrive) and those are the only issues I have had. I spent a large portion of time with Rob last summer analyzing all of the aspects of your remade pair to ensure everything was made according to my specifications. You came in for the bake, and never reached out again, outside of on here. As I have said months ago to you on this forum, I am always available to work with clients to ensure the skates are made exactly to customer specifications. If there was an additional issue, let me solve it. 

One important note as well, "pro - fit" is not a box to be checked during the fitting to request that less materials be used for a tighter fit. They are simply taking the materials and removing excess negative space - at the beer league / recreational level, this is often not as comfortable. However, I can easily accomplish this fit by myself in store during a tightening appointment. Other shops may not have this capability, so this is a helpful bit of information to know, but it does not necessarily carry as much weight as what has been alluded to here. 

At the end of the day, you are open to your opinion, but the skates are custom made entirely to the skaters foot using Scott's patented lasting system. There will be information coming out in the next few weeks that will further reinforce this. 

[Leif 160]

Sk8Stk: I don’t have the knowledge to comment on most of your post, but your suggestion that some people pay a significant sum of money and want the skate to not fit is bizarre. Are you really asking us to believe that? It’s possible they think they should fit from the word go, and aren’t willing to have them adjusted. 

As an aside, socks make a difference. I got pain today when wearing thin cheap socks, and none when wearing wool skiing socks, I think the latter are softer and warmer.