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VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

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An old adage comes to mind:

Garbage in, garbage out.

Here's the issue; irrespective of brand, the factory is relying on accurate scans to make skates properly, as they aren't doing the scans or the fittings themselves.  This is the same issue that we had before scans; when we had a handful of skilled fitters who never had any issues with anything they submitted, but would hear the nightmares of those shops and reps who just submitted length and width, max stiffness and a quadruple thickness felt tongue with 2" length, because, you know you need that flop (yes, I know there's no such thing as a quadruple thick felt tongue, but I'm sure someone would've ordered it if it were offered.)

Now that it is open to a vast majority of stores and employees, more problems will arise.  And I'm not going to get into it about who does it best; I think you can achieve the best results for your customer with enough knowledge and communication with the factory.  

And I'm sorry, but being able to wave an iPad around or herd someone onto the Bauer scanner does not make you a skilled fitter.  You're looking for other things.  I would get back to my customer 2 days with the final spec sheet after doing the fitting.  Why did I do that?  Because you learn from every fitting you've ever done.  And I felt that a 2nd look a day later was important, because there may be something that I had overlooked when I did the fitting, and I could draw from the previous fittings I had done to see if there was a different or better solution.  In all of the years I had fitted customs, I had only one remake, which was when a customer wanted something I didn't recommend (oversized toecap which he insisted he needed.)  And even then, I waived the relasting fee the store was charged.

While I think True is trying to rectify the problem, at some point they should've asked the store what happened there.  I do feel that stuffing the toe box with foam wasn't the right choice; that holder size isn't going to shrink by itself.  Perhaps another scan and traditional measurements would've solved the problem.  The fact that the shop didn't question it immediately just screams inexperience.  

 

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I shipped my skates back to Winnipeg for adjustments the Tuesday before Thanksgiving (US version) and True had them back to me the following Monday; awesome turnaround time. 

The bunion issue seems to have been fixed but I'm still having some discomfort (not nearly as bad as before) in the toe box of each skate in the corner of each big toe.

To me, True wants there to be zero negative space in your skates so they seem to be overly cautious and conservative in treating volume issues. If you need an area expanded by 2mm, they seem to only want to expand it by 1mm, for example.

The past few weeks, I would at times have pain in my arches. I did the insole technique but also added a red insole to give me more padding as I weigh a lot and need it. I cut out the arches on the bottom red insole in each skate, then put in a new red insole and then the blue one. That seems to have alleviated the pressure on my arches.

I'm tempted to Dremel out some excess material around the big toe in each skate; anyone else ever done this? I saw that Blademaster actually sold a tool to do such a thing so perhaps my idea isn't so crazy?

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1 hour ago, CigarScott said:

I shipped my skates back to Winnipeg for adjustments the Tuesday before Thanksgiving (US version) and True had them back to me the following Monday; awesome turnaround time. 

The bunion issue seems to have been fixed but I'm still having some discomfort (not nearly as bad as before) in the toe box of each skate in the corner of each big toe.

To me, True wants there to be zero negative space in your skates so they seem to be overly cautious and conservative in treating volume issues. If you need an area expanded by 2mm, they seem to only want to expand it by 1mm, for example.

The past few weeks, I would at times have pain in my arches. I did the insole technique but also added a red insole to give me more padding as I weigh a lot and need it. I cut out the arches on the bottom red insole in each skate, then put in a new red insole and then the blue one. That seems to have alleviated the pressure on my arches.

I'm tempted to Dremel out some excess material around the big toe in each skate; anyone else ever done this? I saw that Blademaster actually sold a tool to do such a thing so perhaps my idea isn't so crazy?

The cutting of the red insole works well for arch pain if you use the red insole. I found the redbl insole threw the fit off a bit for me so that's why I actually heated up the arch and adjusted it that way. 

As for the toe box. Maybe use a heat gun in that area and use you fingers or the other side of a screw driver to push it out gently. 

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2 hours ago, CigarScott said:

I shipped my skates back to Winnipeg for adjustments the Tuesday before Thanksgiving (US version) and True had them back to me the following Monday; awesome turnaround time. 

The bunion issue seems to have been fixed but I'm still having some discomfort (not nearly as bad as before) in the toe box of each skate in the corner of each big toe.

To me, True wants there to be zero negative space in your skates so they seem to be overly cautious and conservative in treating volume issues. If you need an area expanded by 2mm, they seem to only want to expand it by 1mm, for example.

The past few weeks, I would at times have pain in my arches. I did the insole technique but also added a red insole to give me more padding as I weigh a lot and need it. I cut out the arches on the bottom red insole in each skate, then put in a new red insole and then the blue one. That seems to have alleviated the pressure on my arches.

I'm tempted to Dremel out some excess material around the big toe in each skate; anyone else ever done this? I saw that Blademaster actually sold a tool to do such a thing so perhaps my idea isn't so crazy?

I've had pain in almost every skate I've worn (except for the Mako) on the outside of my big toe from rubbing. I had to wear a silicone toe sleeve in any other skate just to be able to skate. I notice it too in any sort of work boot or cheap dress shoe (my good dress shoes don't have the issue and are more comfortable than slippers!)

I had VH take note of that spot and they seemed to build around it so my toe wouldn't rub there. 

I'm 99% sure the issue developed originally when I got my first pair of skates as an adult, which were a low end pair of Eastons that that spot on my toe actually rubbed on the seam where the outer is stitched to the toe box. I never had toe issues prior to that pair of skates! 

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2 hours ago, CigarScott said:

I'm tempted to Dremel out some excess material around the big toe in each skate; anyone else ever done this? I saw that Blademaster actually sold a tool to do such a thing so perhaps my idea isn't so crazy?

Try getting that area of the toe box heated/punched first by someone who knows what they're doing.  It might be tough since it's the toe box, but worth a shot before taking more drastic measures like using a Dremel.  With that said, I do know a few people who have used a Dremel for such the purpose you describe.  You have to be extremely careful, make sure to sand smooth after, and realize that you are slightly weakening that area of the skate since you are taking some material away.

A totally different thought...which may not work at all, but have you tried to use Powerfoot inserts?  In addition to removing negative space above your toes, which they're designed for, in my experience, they also tend to restrict movement of your toes and sometimes even help to push back your toes a minimal amount away from the toe box.  Worth a shot before taking the measure to alter the boot materials.

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4 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

The cutting of the red insole works well for arch pain if you use the red insole. I found the redbl insole threw the fit off a bit for me so that's why I actually heated up the arch and adjusted it that way. 

As for the toe box. Maybe use a heat gun in that area and use you fingers or the other side of a screw driver to push it out gently. 

I haven't tried the butt of a screwdriver yet but that may be my next step if the LHS in Atlanta can't fix it when I go there next week.

3 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I've had pain in almost every skate I've worn (except for the Mako) on the outside of my big toe from rubbing. I had to wear a silicone toe sleeve in any other skate just to be able to skate. I notice it too in any sort of work boot or cheap dress shoe (my good dress shoes don't have the issue and are more comfortable than slippers!)

I had VH take note of that spot and they seemed to build around it so my toe wouldn't rub there. 

I've been wearing those silicone toe sleeves but am trying to not have to any longer. I figured that I shouldn't have to any long after dropping a grand on customs skates. The LHS notated in my scans those areas and after my first set of boots were way off, I sent pics of my feet directly to True after wearing the skates just during baking that how red and irritated those spots were. I sent back the first pair with tape on them to mark the spots so that they could see were they needed to give me more room in the second pair. When I shipped back this pair to have them adjust them, I marked the areas up again and my bunions seemed to have been adjust enough where I don't have to wear bunion sleeves anymore, I still need toe sleeves, especially on my right toe which is on my pronating foot.

2 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Try getting that area of the toe box heated/punched first by someone who knows what they're doing.  It might be tough since it's the toe box, but worth a shot before taking more drastic measures like using a Dremel.  With that said, I do know a few people who have used a Dremel for such the purpose you describe.  You have to be extremely careful, make sure to sand smooth after, and realize that you are slightly weakening that area of the skate since you are taking some material away.

A totally different thought...which may not work at all, but have you tried to use Powerfoot inserts?  In addition to removing negative space above your toes, which they're designed for, in my experience, they also tend to restrict movement of your toes and sometimes even help to push back your toes a minimal amount away from the toe box.  Worth a shot before taking the measure to alter the boot materials.

I'm going to the only "real" LHS that I'm aware of in the South next Thursday to see if they can do a better job punching the spots out better than I could. I tried punching with a borrowed boot punch and my Harbor Freight heat gun and would alleviate the pain in the area but it would push in another area and create a new hot spot so I finally gave up and shipped them back to True. I don't want to use a Dremel and I'm at this point just thinking out loud as it being a last resort.

The toe box horizontally and vertically is tight as it is so there is no way to fit Powerfeet in them. My better half has a pair in her skates and loves them, though.

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@CigarScott have you tried re-baking with those silicone sleeves?  I recently within the last year have developed the same issue with my skates (Supreme 190).  I thought about trying to bake the skates while wearing them just haven't yet.  I will say that one day I lost the one sleeve and I had to skate without it and the issue seemed to be okay on my left foot where I have been wearing the sleeve for a year.  It's possible that area of the skate stretched out by wearing the sleeve for a year again I haven't tried not wearing the sleeve again maybe one skate this week.

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@strosedefence34 I've gone way further than that and do the tissue technique and crank it to 11 every time I bake my skates. I first take several paper towels and fold them down to stuff between my big toes so the big toes can't be pushed in away from the boot. Then I fold up several more paper towels and tape them from my bunions to the top of my big toes. In all, after the paper towels being compressed between my foot and boot, there has to be at least 3-4mm worth of materials. I've heard of guys at my rink cut up old cloth washcloths and towels to tape to their hot spots prior to baking instead of paper towels and toilet paper so perhaps I'll try that if I have to bake them yet again.

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22 hours ago, CigarScott said:

@strosedefence34 I've gone way further than that and do the tissue technique and crank it to 11 every time I bake my skates. I first take several paper towels and fold them down to stuff between my big toes so the big toes can't be pushed in away from the boot. Then I fold up several more paper towels and tape them from my bunions to the top of my big toes. In all, after the paper towels being compressed between my foot and boot, there has to be at least 3-4mm worth of materials. I've heard of guys at my rink cut up old cloth washcloths and towels to tape to their hot spots prior to baking instead of paper towels and toilet paper so perhaps I'll try that if I have to bake them yet again.

The silicone sleeve doesn't bother me except when it gets messed up when I am putting my socks on sometimes.  It would be great to not have to use it though.  Maybe I will try the washcloth method with the sleeves on my pond hockey skates and see if its worth it with my other ones.

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4 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

The silicone sleeve doesn't bother me except when it gets messed up when I am putting my socks on sometimes.  It would be great to not have to use it though.  Maybe I will try the washcloth method with the sleeves on my pond hockey skates and see if its worth it with my other ones.

With respect to the toe box of the True skate I would make sure first to ask how it is made in case one does add heat and it can't take it or tries to Dremel it and find you have a hole through the toe. Just a thought. I hope I have posted this properly so all could see and not just the last poster. Let me know if I am wrong.

SMU

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18 minutes ago, smu said:

With respect to the toe box of the True skate I would make sure first to ask how it is made in case one does add heat and it can't take it or tries to Dremel it and find you have a hole through the toe. Just a thought. I hope I have posted this properly so all could see and not just the last poster. Let me know if I am wrong.

SMU

 

On 12/7/2018 at 1:20 PM, CigarScott said:

I shipped my skates back to Winnipeg for adjustments the Tuesday before Thanksgiving (US version) and True had them back to me the following Monday; awesome turnaround time. 

The bunion issue seems to have been fixed but I'm still having some discomfort (not nearly as bad as before) in the toe box of each skate in the corner of each big toe.

To me, True wants there to be zero negative space in your skates so they seem to be overly cautious and conservative in treating volume issues. If you need an area expanded by 2mm, they seem to only want to expand it by 1mm, for example.

The past few weeks, I would at times have pain in my arches. I did the insole technique but also added a red insole to give me more padding as I weigh a lot and need it. I cut out the arches on the bottom red insole in each skate, then put in a new red insole and then the blue one. That seems to have alleviated the pressure on my arches.

I'm tempted to Dremel out some excess material around the big toe in each skate; anyone else ever done this? I saw that Blademaster actually sold a tool to do such a thing so perhaps my idea isn't so crazy?

@smu I think you were trying to quote @CigarScott

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3 hours ago, smu said:

With respect to the toe box of the True skate I would make sure first to ask how it is made in case one does add heat and it can't take it or tries to Dremel it and find you have a hole through the toe. Just a thought. I hope I have posted this properly so all could see and not just the last poster. Let me know if I am wrong.

SMU

I've already verified with Rob that you can heat the toe box with a heat gun and punch it out.

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8 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

The silicone sleeve doesn't bother me except when it gets messed up when I am putting my socks on sometimes.  It would be great to not have to use it though.  Maybe I will try the washcloth method with the sleeves on my pond hockey skates and see if its worth it with my other ones.

Yes, I was trying to reach Cigar what did I do wrong?

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I hit the + key for your post, does that do it? Maybe there are more post coming in all the time that I don't see and if I just hit quote it goes with the newest quote?

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5 minutes ago, smu said:

I hit the + key for your post, does that do it? Maybe there are more post coming in all the time that I don't see and if I just hit quote it goes with the newest quote?

I think maybe you hit the “+” quote on the wrong post by clicking the one closer to CigarScott’s name, at the beginning of his post. That would actually quote the post above that. You want to scroll to the bottom of the post you want to quote and hit the button there.

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5 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Okay guys let’s get back on-topic. We don’t need to fill the thread with the basics on how to use the Internet.

I guess there was nothing interesting other than my problem that was never complained of until last week! I do see more use the multi + post more often though!

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Where do I find the basics, what page or section just to make it easier.

Thanks

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Opinions are like assholes; some are larger than others.  I'll take the word of a guy who has fitted 900+ pairs of the things over the word of others, EVERY TIME!

The idea that a custom skate should fit perfect right out of the box is scary to me.  Whether it's scanning, measurements, whatever, there will ALWAYS be something not quite perfect, and there will be tinkering needed, even just the slightest bit, in order to get it 100%.  Maybe YOUR idea of 100% is less than, only because TO YOU, the skates fit you BETTER than your last pair.  You might be surprised what can be done at a far less cost than ordering custom skates.

With that said, lots of Kool-Aid being consumed here lately; custom skates, Sparks, crazy times!

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35 minutes ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

Opinions are like assholes; some are larger than others.  I'll take the word of a guy who has fitted 900+ pairs of the things over the word of others, EVERY TIME!

The idea that a custom skate should fit perfect right out of the box is scary to me.  Whether it's scanning, measurements, whatever, there will ALWAYS be something not quite perfect, and there will be tinkering needed, even just the slightest bit, in order to get it 100%.  Maybe YOUR idea of 100% is less than, only because TO YOU, the skates fit you BETTER than your last pair.  You might be surprised what can be done at a far less cost than ordering custom skates.

With that said, lots of Kool-Aid being consumed here lately; custom skates, Sparks, crazy times!

Just like suits that are made to measure etc. I've never had one that I didn't have to alter after receiving it. That's why you do test fits.  And like you said everyone's perception of what is a perfect fit for them is different, just like clothing. Some like things to fit looser and others snugger. 

There will always be the one off disaster unfortunately. 

Edited by Sniper9
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11 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Just like suits that are made to measure etc. I've never had one that I didn't have to alter after receiving it. That's why you do test fits.  And like you said everyone's perception of what is a perfect fit for them is different, just like clothing. Some like things to fit looser and others snugger. 

There will always be the one off disaster unfortunately. 

I dunno about the suit thing, when I get a suit done at a professional tailor I never need to alter it unless I put on a few lbs 😉

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29 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I dunno about the suit thing, when I get a suit done at a professional tailor I never need to alter it unless I put on a few lbs 😉

Depends it's it's mtm or bespoke. Even bespoke they get you in a number of times for test fits before the suit is complete. I'm talking about making a suit not getting it altered and having to have the alterations corrected. 

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I've been a long-time reader of this thread, and got my True skates a week ago - only very minor post-fit fettling has left me with the most comfortable skates I've ever had - in terms of the fit, I'm really pleased. 

However, I've got one question about the holders. I'm using the True (Step?) holders and Step steel, even after a week the holder is starting to split at the front, only 1-2mm, but still... As per instructions, I checked the tightness of the blades after heat forming, and after first skating. Is this something other people have also experienced, and is just the steel 'bedding in' to the holder? Or is this something I need to take further? (I'm in Europe so would be without the skates for significant time if they need to be sent back for evaluation).

 

Here's a Flickr link (which hopefully works) to show what I mean...

2018-12-16_07-29-42

 

Edited by Ashphil

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