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VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

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3 hours ago, Leif said:

Sk8Stk: I don’t have the knowledge to comment on most of your post, but your suggestion that some people pay a significant sum of money and want the skate to not fit is bizarre. Are you really asking us to believe that? It’s possible they think they should fit from the word go, and aren’t willing to have them adjusted. 

As an aside, socks make a difference. I got pain today when wearing thin cheap socks, and none when wearing wool skiing socks, I think the latter are softer and warmer. 

I’m gonna go with yes there are a good number of these cases. I know of probably a dozen or so people who have gotten lucky because someone ponied up the cash for true/VH skates only to end up selling them for whatever reasons and most times at a pretty big loss. 

And I’ll add as someone who has gotten a pair secondhand that they fit and perform amazingly even if not made specifically for you. No issues, bake em, lace em up and go skate never had any problems. Call it luck I guess or perhaps there’s a chance the product is that good and you can dial in a fit even if its in the ballpark of your foot.

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Sk8St6,
1) I risk expressing myself again as I know I have addressed my skate issues before in this form, but I want you and SuperJet to see where a real mistake can take you, plus understand what I needed in a boot to get myself over my center of gravity. Once I am over my edges I feel like I can do anything! I will really try to make a long story of three months short!
2) I also really wonder about this Pro-Fit - nothing says this right?

When I purchased my skates in August or early September my skates came out as the Junior price as expected, a size 5 with a 246 mm blade. I have always taken a size 5 Bauer and CCM Tack. When I received my skates through the LHS on September 28th they said that True indicates that my skates are a senior size and that I owe them the extra $200 plus tax, which I paid knowing if they work, no problem. Apparently they now use the size of the holder as the cut off point with a senior skate and with these skates they had a holder size of 254 mm and a 254 mm blade!

When we opened the box it was apparent, even before putting them on that they were far to long and wide a fit for me. But, my LHS suggested I try them first then if they are to large back they go with reasons. This done we sent them back outlining that they have to be a full size and one half larger than they should have been. I have to say they were really huge on the ice, but I had no pronation problem (later learned that it was just because of the really stiff boot and would not last). They were sent back indicating the largeness problem and the fact that the holders were not on straight, but never got a reply.

On Nov 5th my LHS received the skates back, but the skates were the identical skates that we just sent away? They just had taped in toe fillers to make the skates feel as if I could feather my toe box, I guess and feel as if they fit me!


Again these were sent back immediately and again with all the information that they were way to large and something isn’t right and why is no one even looking at the holders etc. I also included a second scan.

So I don’t go into too much I will skip some great details.

I phone True on Nov 30th and get management and they indicated immediately that the problem was solved, and one measurement was out of three taken and was way out and should have been caught by the assembly worker who used that data to make the skate!


All seemed OK now and another skate was to be made and sent immediately and it was, but again it felt too large and I could fit an over 13 mm penlight down to the bottom of my heel with my foot in the skate easily! This would be the equivalent of 1.5 sizes! They felt loose on the floor when I was at the LHS and they wrapped them to bring in the skates as much as they could, but I tried them out and they felt worse than the first pair I received. I was slipping as if my skates were not sharp but they were.

Then it gets to be frustration time with True. I was trying to suggest sending my Bauer boot, my tracings of my foot length length and my measurement of volume of my foot as my foot is slim, but it was not wanted nor needed I was told.

I could add more here, but better not. I was finally asked what was my blade size was and I answered 246 mm. After that my skates were made!!! I have used them once as noted and they feel good, but as I told True I am apprehensive about the issue with the insole or last as I was told that a small amount was shaved off the heel, but from my photos there was hardly any shaved off and in particular since my Bauer skate is what I was referring to and this skate was larger than than the Bauer and certainly not for me!

I need this skate as narrow as my foot will take to keep my pronation in check.

Where does that leave me now with a skate that was paid for in August with a six month warranty and I am only getting a working one now, maybe?  For this one game I played it was good but not perfect, but I need more than one game, but where will it be in a month or so. I need it stiff and narrow along with the pronation fix.

Scot Van Horne’s video did push me to the Trues and I opted for them after trying all the size 5 skates on in the LHS, all the 5D’s I tried on and none fit. I have been using the Junior Bauer size 5 D for the past 15 years.

I had found through the good sources of Jeff Gray, C.Ped OST of Superfeet and also one of our members Vet88 about pronation issues. I had been posting my skates but they were temperamental because, as I found out the heel and ankle in the wide D skate was to large for me and were too wide in the heel and ankle area. I need a narrow skate, or size C, to reduce the size and volume in this area and I thought I did one better by buying a pair of custom True skates!

Cheers - Alan

Edited by smu
Grammar and changed a sentence or two

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9 minutes ago, the_game said:

I’m gonna go with yes there are a good number of these cases. I know of probably a dozen or so people who have gotten lucky because someone ponied up the cash for true/VH skates only to end up selling them for whatever reasons and most times at a pretty big loss. 

And I’ll add as someone who has gotten a pair secondhand that they fit and perform amazingly even if not made specifically for you. No issues, bake em, lace em up and go skate never had any problems. Call it luck I guess or perhaps there’s a chance the product is that good and you can dial in a fit even if its in the ballpark of your foot.

The fit is unlike any other skate out there. Anyone coming from any other skate will notice a big difference just putting them on after baking, even if they weren't made for them but are the same size and width.  I never realized how poorly my old skates fit /felt until I wore my trues. I never had really any complaints with my old skates but when you compare the two it's quite amazing how much negative space I had in my old skates, and how bad the heel lock was. 

Double edge sword with the Trues is that because they are pretty locked in, you'll notice just the smallest areas that don't fit the way you think it should and it'll start mind effing you. I spent hrs tinkering my right skate to get it to feel like my left just because I wanted both to feel the exact same. I'm as close as I will get at this point with what I have done and I'm very happy, but it can also make u pretty OCD as well! 

Edited by Sniper9
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50 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

How many times do we really need to read the same story? Move on, already.

My bad. 

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7 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

My bad. 

Not you he was referring to SMU. Alan has reposted the exact account of his dilemma every time. And while we all feel for him with the issue. We are all pretty much over hearing the entire story that is no so long it takes up an entire page with 3 or 4 other responses.  

 

But I have had the same success with fitting of Pro Stock boots. Just took the original measurements and checked to see how close and so far all but 2 have been very good fits. One came back after a couple skates but sold that skate again to a rec player that had odd feet and was able to make them work. 

 

Have a great day!!!

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19 hours ago, flip12 said:

I think a lot of subtopics that end up in these mega topics could be best served with their own smaller topics. Maybe mega threads or mega topics like this one could be their own forum or forum category, and the related subtopics could be individually threaded below. Stack Overflow has a good approach for achieving that level of granularity.

This is huge. For people interested in the bigger topics like this or the Mako topic, it's frustrating to be stuck reading Q/A along the lines of "this thread is too long, so I'm just going to ask without having checked if my question has already been answered." Breaking up the mega threads could be a powerful boost in information density.

For example, the Prosharp section.  

Perhaps in 2019 we'll see more brands work with us.

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11 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

How many times do we really need to read the same story? Move on, already.

My apologies to everybody for my post, but I was trying to reach SuperJet I believe in that he worked last year or last Summer with Rob I and I believe he gave a wrong impression about those that complain too much about their skates. With that I tried to shorten up my problems and I pressed the + button so that I did not fill the forum. I am still confused on this one so I post very infrequently and carefully when I do it. I did shorten up my predicament and you should read it again it may surprise you. 

I wanted to show this member, SuperJet, (and I hope I got this right), that there really are problems with some makes of skates from True and the QC and communication is lacking in fact I emailed Rob indicating that very thing and it is on MSH just to help the this forum and indicated that True has to do better.

This was not for me, I had already been talking to Rob, but not as early as OldTrainerGuy suggested and he was right.

I take it there has been no better QC and communication yet, has anyone else?

Anyway, that out of the way I did get a pair of skates 3 months after and had my first game January 3rd. I thought the skates were good, but not what I anticipated except my pronation was gone which was wonderful, but again I need to play a few more games to really test them out and looking forward to next week.

***It is funny that after my second post of my problems everybody wanted to jump on the bus for me and see how much I can get out of True for the trouble they have caused me and then after thinking about this I said no, enough and virtually took myself off for a month or so.

Now I am known as the guy that screwed up the thread!

Cheers - Alan (SMU)

 

 

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@smu don't sweat it. A couple of things might help.

1) if you you want to connect with a member directly, use the private message function.

2) posts on forums are best when they are direct and to the point. Skip the story, just give us the details.

3) if you need to reference your initial post, don't type it out again, just link it. Again, direct and to the point.

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Even though I have Bauer customs, not Trues, I think the question is relevant. My understanding is that custom skates are designed to be a close fit, to remove what most people call negative space, or empty space (which I think is a clearer description). Anyway, I have had sore toes, where the sides of my toes rub against the sides of the skates. Is this normal? I discovered that if I wore soft wool socks, not only does this stop the rubbing (or more accurately, the discomfort from rubbing), but my feet are warmer. 

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On 1/4/2019 at 10:05 PM, Nicholas G said:

Is this a topic on VH/true skates or how to properly fit a player for skates.....? At this point, it seems everyone comes in here to rant which is getting a bit tiresome. I am not sure I agree that all of these individual topics should be lumped into this single thread, maybe they should have standalone threads? Anyway, just thinking aloud. 

I love my VH/True skates!

(me trying to steer us back on topic)

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2 hours ago, Leif said:

Even though I have Bauer customs, not Trues, I think the question is relevant. My understanding is that custom skates are designed to be a close fit, to remove what most people call negative space, or empty space (which I think is a clearer description). Anyway, I have had sore toes, where the sides of my toes rub against the sides of the skates. Is this normal? I discovered that if I wore soft wool socks, not only does this stop the rubbing (or more accurately, the discomfort from rubbing), but my feet are warmer. 

I would definitely describe the fit on my 1X's as a "pro fit". I've experienced some sore toes from the close, tight fit. I've found socks can be problematic. The seam is a huge factor. 

I've had some punching done to widen the area and swtiched to waxed laces to better hold my foot back in the boot. Problem solved....for me.

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I experienced issues with my big toe running in all skates. Ended up using a silicone sleeve over my big toe all the time. When I got my VH I had them build some space in there for me so it hasn’t been an issue.

I also actually did the opposite of @stick9 and switched away from waxed laces. I found that I didn’t need my skates nearly as tight anymore because of how molded they are to my feet. I could easily skate (but not play hockey) without laces at all. Still use a damn shoe horn to get them on!

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3 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I experienced issues with my big toe running in all skates. Ended up using a silicone sleeve over my big toe all the time. When I got my VH I had them build some space in there for me so it hasn’t been an issue.

I also actually did the opposite of @stick9 and switched away from waxed laces. I found that I didn’t need my skates nearly as tight anymore because of how molded they are to my feet. I could easily skate (but not play hockey) without laces at all. Still use a damn shoe horn to get them on!

I do the same thing with using a shoe horn to take them on and off. I get some weird looks at first when I'm in a locker room with guys I don't normally play with then I tell them why and they get excited want to ask questions since the vast majority of players at my rink in Alabama have never seen a pair in person; I only know of one other guy at my rink that has a pair and they're the old school VH ones with yellow trim and the old logo.

I got sick of having to use a silicone sleeve on my big toes for wearing a custom skate so I ended up cutting up some heel lock pads in mounting them in the toe box and on the foot bed where the insoles don't cover. I have the situation where my forefoot is so wide and in conjunction with my holders moved medially due to pronation, that there is nothing between my big toes and the first rivet or two in the front of each skate. This has greatly helped with comfort but it'd be nice to be able to get a bulk sheet of the insole material and be able to cut insoles to the exact size. Anyone have any idea where I can score the insole material to make my own?

 

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6 minutes ago, CigarScott said:

I do the same thing with using a shoe horn to take them on and off. I get some weird looks at first when I'm in a locker room with guys I don't normally play with then I tell them why and they get excited want to ask questions since the vast majority of players at my rink in Alabama have never seen a pair in person; I only know of one other guy at my rink that has a pair and they're the old school VH ones with yellow trim and the old logo.

I got sick of having to use a silicone sleeve on my big toes for wearing a custom skate so I ended up cutting up some heel lock pads in mounting them in the toe box and on the foot bed where the insoles don't cover. I have the situation where my forefoot is so wide and in conjunction with my holders moved medially due to pronation, that there is nothing between my big toes and the first rivet or two in the front of each skate. This has greatly helped with comfort but it'd be nice to be able to get a bulk sheet of the insole material and be able to cut insoles to the exact size. Anyone have any idea where I can score the insole material to make my own?

 

Yeah I get weird looks, too. Then I explain that they're custom and wrap my foot. Mine are the old ones with the VH logo, too.

Maybe take a look at http://www.protectiveathleticwear.com/materials.htm and see if they have a foam that would work for you? 

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3 hours ago, CigarScott said:

I do the same thing with using a shoe horn to take them on and off. I get some weird looks at first when I'm in a locker room with guys I don't normally play with then I tell them why and they get excited want to ask questions since the vast majority of players at my rink in Alabama have never seen a pair in person; I only know of one other guy at my rink that has a pair and they're the old school VH ones with yellow trim and the old logo.

I got sick of having to use a silicone sleeve on my big toes for wearing a custom skate so I ended up cutting up some heel lock pads in mounting them in the toe box and on the foot bed where the insoles don't cover. I have the situation where my forefoot is so wide and in conjunction with my holders moved medially due to pronation, that there is nothing between my big toes and the first rivet or two in the front of each skate. This has greatly helped with comfort but it'd be nice to be able to get a bulk sheet of the insole material and be able to cut insoles to the exact size. Anyone have any idea where I can score the insole material to make my own?

 

You can get Eva foam on Amazon. Pretty cheap. Get the thinnest one they have which I believe is 1mm.  Just roughly trace and cut out what you think is the same shape as your outsole area and use a heat gun to get the foam soft but don't overheat. Hairdryer would prob work better since it heats up pretty fast.  Then put it in your boot and press around the edges to get the proper shape and/or trace with a pen. Then cut that out and redo until you have it to the exact shape of your outsole. 

I measured the red true ones and they are about 2mm maybe a bit less but def more than 1mm.  If you like the thickness of the  true then maybe order the 2mm or you can stack two 1mm etc.

The red insoles add too much volume for me so took them out altogether and just run with SPs. 

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14 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I experienced issues with my big toe running in all skates. Ended up using a silicone sleeve over my big toe all the time. When I got my VH I had them build some space in there for me so it hasn’t been an issue.

I also actually did the opposite of @stick9 and switched away from waxed laces. I found that I didn’t need my skates nearly as tight anymore because of how molded they are to my feet. I could easily skate (but not play hockey) without laces at all. Still use a damn shoe horn to get them on!

Funny thing is. I am a big advocate for unwaxed laces because they have a bit of give to them. I don't need waxed laces in the traditional sense. The 1X injected lacing has a locking feature and I am only pulling them tight at the top. Appreantly that little bit of give was enough for my foot to move forward a little.

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15 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I experienced issues with my big toe running in all skates. Ended up using a silicone sleeve over my big toe all the time. When I got my VH I had them build some space in there for me so it hasn’t been an issue.

I also actually did the opposite of @stick9 and switched away from waxed laces. I found that I didn’t need my skates nearly as tight anymore because of how molded they are to my feet. I could easily skate (but not play hockey) without laces at all. Still use a damn shoe horn to get them on!

I prefer the feel of waxed laces with my Trues.  I guess just preference.  I don't like feeling my laces start to give from the start to finish of a skate.  Stopped using a shoe horn as well, and so far my liner seems fine.  Would still definitely recommend a shoe horn when baking however.

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1 hour ago, stick9 said:

Funny thing is. I am a big advocate for unwaxed laces because they have a bit of give to them. I don't need waxed laces in the traditional sense. The 1X injected lacing has a locking feature and I am only pulling them tight at the top. Appreantly that little bit of give was enough for my foot to move forward a little.

I've never liked the gooey waxed laces. Graf's waxed laces are completely different. Just enough wax to hold, but with enough elasticity to avoid that cement suction cup feeling. I like those on my MLX just because I like the skate feeling snug but still with flex when I contract the tendons in my foot. That feel is really nice and hard to get in cloth laces.

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I only get waxed bc I like how they are a bit thinner and don't look "puffy". Waxed laces are a bit more annoying to get a decent knot, I find. The wax makes the lace firmer and it doesn't hold a knot as well as non waxed. End of the day I'm a yellow waxed laces kind of guy and probably will be forever. 

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I prefer wider unwaxed laces, the extra width makes them easier to grip and causes less discomfort in the hands. They also tend to slip less in the eyelets. The default Bauer laces are narrow and soft, horrible, no idea about Trues. 

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7 hours ago, Leif said:

I prefer wider unwaxed laces, the extra width makes them easier to grip and causes less discomfort in the hands. They also tend to slip less in the eyelets. The default Bauer laces are narrow and soft, horrible, no idea about Trues. 

Trues are now shipping with the wider, unwaxed laces. I tried them and really liked them. I got some longer Elite Pro-X7 laces and love them. Much more comfortable and easier to lace up than wax laces.

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On 1/5/2019 at 9:04 PM, Leif said:

Sk8Stk: I don’t have the knowledge to comment on most of your post, but your suggestion that some people pay a significant sum of money and want the skate to not fit is bizarre. Are you really asking us to believe that? It’s possible they think they should fit from the word go, and aren’t willing to have them adjusted. 

As an aside, socks make a difference. I got pain today when wearing thin cheap socks, and none when wearing wool skiing socks, I think the latter are softer and warmer. 

You are missing the point I am making. We are making the skates to the exact measurements of your foot. After doing that, an individual still has preferences in regard to comfort due to how the foot acts / moves in a skate. This is why the skates need to be baked, the bake dials in the fit of the boot to your preference even though the skate is made to your foot. I am in no way saying someone should pay $1000 for a skate that does not fit, I am saying that since you are spending $1000 on a pair of custom skates you have the ability to tweak and adjust the skates to your exact specification. This is a pro rather than a con, True is using some of the best materials on the market to allow for this exceptional fit and adjustment throughout the life of the boot. And once you make a few adjustments, they hold throughout the life of the skate. With any brand, if you arent willing to work with your representative when ordering a custom skate you need to reevaluate your attitude slightly. Major adjustments - yes, there is most likely something wrong with the fit. But small adjustments are to be expected.

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7 hours ago, Sk8Stk said:

You are missing the point I am making. We are making the skates to the exact measurements of your foot. After doing that, an individual still has preferences in regard to comfort due to how the foot acts / moves in a skate. This is why the skates need to be baked, the bake dials in the fit of the boot to your preference even though the skate is made to your foot. I am in no way saying someone should pay $1000 for a skate that does not fit, I am saying that since you are spending $1000 on a pair of custom skates you have the ability to tweak and adjust the skates to your exact specification. This is a pro rather than a con, True is using some of the best materials on the market to allow for this exceptional fit and adjustment throughout the life of the boot. And once you make a few adjustments, they hold throughout the life of the skate. With any brand, if you arent willing to work with your representative when ordering a custom skate you need to reevaluate your attitude slightly. Major adjustments - yes, there is most likely something wrong with the fit. But small adjustments are to be expected.

Perhaps they need it clearly explaining to them (in big letters) that the skates require adjustments, they might be used to skates that either fit out of the box, or do so after a simple bake. People sometimes don't hear something they are told, I've done it myself. 

However, my comment was in response to this: 

On 1/5/2019 at 10:22 PM, Sk8Stk said:

Also, everyone that has allowed me to adjust their skates further has been satisfied. There have been one or two customers that do not want to make adjustments (normally, these are customers who are against the brand from the starting point and want the skates to not fit when they arrive) and those are the only issues I have had. 

That just seems odd, if that really is your impression then fair enough. I can't imagine ordering a custom product in the hope that it does not fit. 

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