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Paddy

Does black steel feel totally different?

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So i got new skates that fit properly. It didn't seem possible that i could spend over an hour on the ice and have zero foot pain, none. Very happy. Old skates, Supreme One.6, new are last years Super Tacks

However, everything is new. New brand, new holder, new steel. Even sharpened at a new place, but they did the same hollow i usually get, a 5/8. 

FWIW, I've already searched and other than a bad sharpening, all i can come up with is that my new skates may have a different radius profile?

So, what I'm feeling is what i assume a speed skaters skates feel like; no dig by the edges. If i stand with my feet wider than my shoulders, i swear my feet would slide out. It's just, totally different. They took a lot of time sharpening them, the guy gave me every indication he's good at his job, and they look normal to the touch. I will say, they don't scrape my fingernail like my old skates did after a fresh sharpening. I won't lie, i mostly like the new feeling, but i had no confidence tonight, and wasn't sure i could hold an edge for a crossover. All 4 edges felt the same.

I'm relatively new to skating, and these are my second pair, so I'm only used to 1 thing. Can a different pair of skates feel this way, or does it all come down to the sharpening?

Did i mention i love properly fitting skates?

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Yes, everything can feel totally different when you change skates, especially going from supremes to tacks and different blades. What may be happening is the supremes didn't fit you well causing you to lean in on your inside edges. The Tacks fit you better and put you more on top of your edges. This gives you the feeling of less bite as you skate. Once you commit to the turn, your edges should hold. It's all up to how well you skate.

Edited by Vet88
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Vet88, i might should add, i even feel the lack of bite in my stride with each push. It's funny you mention the proper fitting skates possibly fixing my form. My first thought was, is THIS what's it's supposed to feel like? 

With that said, i just found a small burr along part of one edge. Scraping my fingernail along the side of the runner, from holder toward edge. As shoot the goalie said, maybe it's a 95% sharpening job.

 

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Sounds like what your describing is a poor sharpening. Just because the guy said he put a 5/8 radius on, doesn't mean he did. For all you know, he could have just sharpened 50 pairs of rental figure skates and never redressed the wheel. This is why I have my own sharpener in the garage.

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8 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Not sure what you're really asking, but I will say that Blacksteel (and Step in general) takes a lot longer to initially sharpen than most steel.  Possible that they didn't sharpen enough?

 

 

I would try getting them sharpened again. When I put the Step steel on my skates and had them initially sharpened, I felt a distinct difference from the old steel. Like they weren't sharp enough. I had them sharpened again, and I can't believe how much they grip the ice now. Maybe because they're harder steel, it takes more effort to get that edge in? IDK. Maybe it was just me, but the second sharpening made all the difference in the world.

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As others have said, step 1 is getting them resharpened.  Could be that they didn't make enough passes after the initial cross grinding.  

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11 hours ago, Paddy said:

So i got new skates that fit properly. It didn't seem possible that i could spend over an hour on the ice and have zero foot pain, none. Very happy. Old skates, Supreme One.6, new are last years Super Tacks

However, everything is new. New brand, new holder, new steel. Even sharpened at a new place, but they did the same hollow i usually get, a 5/8. 

FWIW, I've already searched and other than a bad sharpening, all i can come up with is that my new skates may have a different radius profile?

So, what I'm feeling is what i assume a speed skaters skates feel like; no dig by the edges. If i stand with my feet wider than my shoulders, i swear my feet would slide out. It's just, totally different. They took a lot of time sharpening them, the guy gave me every indication he's good at his job, and they look normal to the touch. I will say, they don't scrape my fingernail like my old skates did after a fresh sharpening. I won't lie, i mostly like the new feeling, but i had no confidence tonight, and wasn't sure i could hold an edge for a crossover. All 4 edges felt the same.

I'm relatively new to skating, and these are my second pair, so I'm only used to 1 thing. Can a different pair of skates feel this way, or does it all come down to the sharpening?

Did i mention i love properly fitting skates?

CCM black steel is nothing special and feels no different than any other steel. If you do feel a difference its a placebo. It sounds like the guy sharpening them either did too shallow of a hollow or didn't cross grind them and/or do a good sharpening. Also, the profile of the new steel will be longer than your old steel. If anything, you should feel more stability, not less. 

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3 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

CCM black steel is nothing special and feels no different than any other steel. If you do feel a difference its a placebo. It sounds like the guy sharpening them either did too shallow of a hollow or didn't cross grind them and/or do a good sharpening. Also, the profile of the new steel will be longer than your old steel. If anything, you should feel more stability, not less. 

It sounds like they did not do a cross grind first. This happened when I got a pair of skates a few years ago, I took them in to get sharpened (5/8) and I told the guy they were new. 
I took them out to a public skate the next day and they felt like they were not sharp at all. I took them back and talked to "the old man" and he said they were not 5/8 and asked who sharpened them, so I pointed the guy out and he said he was new and didn't know how to cross grind yet, so he sharpened them again. 
They felt great after that. 

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If you're having issues with slipping while normal skating, the issue is with your form and balance. Too many people, particularly beginners, blame skate sharpening. If you can't even take forward strides with speed without fear of slipping, you need to get used to the new skates and blade profile.

I've gone without sharpening for 2-3 months sometimes and can still do single leg edge drills comfortably (hear the grind/rip sound of your blades cutting the ice). You should still be able to skate normally even on dull blades if you can properly center your body weight over the edges. If you give your current skates to a more experienced skater, I guarantee he'll make them work. I agree with @Vet88 - your old skates may have developed poor skating habits that you will now have to overcome with properly fitted skates.

Don't blame the sharpening. Get over this mental roadblock. Instead, you should challenge yourself to incorporate more deliberate lean (legs, hips, shoulders) and counter balancing so your weight is always centered properly over your skates whatever the maneuver. For me, the main reason for sharpening is to help me lean more aggressively at an angle and to be quicker on each stride.

Edited by BlueNux

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4 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

CCM black steel is nothing special and feels no different than any other steel. If you do feel a difference its a placebo. It sounds like the guy sharpening them either did too shallow of a hollow or didn't cross grind them and/or do a good sharpening. Also, the profile of the new steel will be longer than your old steel. If anything, you should feel more stability, not less. 

It is no placebo with the CCM black steel. That stuff holds an edge much better and they feel much sharper than my old steel. And I'm going with the all things being equal of the same blade length, profile and raduis of hollow done by the same guy.

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2 hours ago, BlueNux said:

If you're having issues with slipping while normal skating, the issue is with your form and balance. Too many people, particularly beginners, blame skate sharpening. If you can't even take forward strides with speed without fear of slipping, you need to get used to the new skates and blade profile.

I've gone without sharpening for 2-3 months sometimes and can still do single leg edge drills comfortably (hear the grind/rip sound of your blades cutting the ice). You should still be able to skate normally even on dull blades if you can properly center your body weight over the edges. If you give your current skates to a more experienced skater, I guarantee he'll make them work. I agree with @Vet88 - your old skates may have developed poor skating habits that you will now have to overcome with properly fitted skates.

Don't blame the sharpening. Get over this mental roadblock. Instead, you should challenge yourself to incorporate more deliberate lean (legs, hips, shoulders) and counter balancing so your weight is always centered properly over your skates whatever the maneuver. For me, the main reason for sharpening is to help me lean more aggressively at an angle and to be quicker on each stride.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, however....

I would like to mention that I actually encourage beginners to be more proactive about keeping a keen edge on their skates.

It's my opinion that beginners especially benefit from being able to 'feel' their edges. It instills confidence and will allow them to push past self-imposed limitations when it comes to learning how to skate properly.  Put differently, if the skater I'm working with can get past that, "OH GOD, I'M GONNA FALL!!!" feeling, we can drastically improve his/her skating far more efficiently than we can if s/he is constantly worried about whether or not that edge is there.

Once form and balance are perfected (or...at least advanced to a reasonable degree of proficiency), I back off my emphasis on keeping skates sharp and encourage my skaters to experiment with different hollows and find what works best for them - ideally, starting with deeper hollows and moving to shallower ones as their confidence and proficiency improve.

Just my opinion...others will have their own...

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Note: OP has the stock CCM SB Black runners that came with the skates (not Step BlackSteel)

OP, CCM or Step BlackSteel will not feel as you described (no edge bite and sliding around). They would initially have a basic "feel" like any other pair of new and sharp runners > lots of bite with any decent hollow. Since it's a different holder and new runner you might feel like you're standing a bit high or at a weird angle (coming from a Bauer Tuuk).

As per all the other posters you need to take them back for a proper first sharpening. Assuming you bought Super Tacks from a shop you should be able to bring them back to that shop and tell them there's an issue.

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Thanks guys.

I took the skates to the place i usually get sharpened. Asked him to "treat them like a brand new pair" because something feels off to me. I asked afterwards if he noticed anything and he said "the angle was off". I asked for clarification, and didn't understand, so I'm not 100% what angle.

Anyway, I had a game last night. Back to having edges, haha. Definitely have a little adjusting to do to the new skates/holder, but the crazy issue is fixed.

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4 hours ago, Paddy said:

Thanks guys.

I took the skates to the place i usually get sharpened. Asked him to "treat them like a brand new pair" because something feels off to me. I asked afterwards if he noticed anything and he said "the angle was off". I asked for clarification, and didn't understand, so I'm not 100% what angle.

Anyway, I had a game last night. Back to having edges, haha. Definitely have a little adjusting to do to the new skates/holder, but the crazy issue is fixed.

Huh.  "The angle was off".  Okay.....

Aside from ensuring the skate blade is properly aligned with the grinding wheel, there aren't a hell of a lot of "angles" to speak of in skate sharpening.  Thing is, when that particular angle is out of whack, you usually get one edge that's 'higher' than the other edge, resulting in one edge that feels REALLY sharp and the other that feels REALLY dull - yet you said that all 4 edges felt the same, so I'm not sure that's what we're dealing with, here.  Honestly, "the angle was off" could mean anything from, "the sharpener was out of alignment and this is the 30th pair of skates I've had to fix" to "I forgot to dress the sharpening wheel" to "cross-grinding new steel? What?" to "I accidentally used the wrong radius wheel" to "I was tired and wanted to go home and did a lousy job". 

In the end, however, it doesn't matter.  It sounds like you're back to having skates that, setting aside the new-ness factor, act (more or less) how you expect them to.  

Anyway.  Now back to the process of breaking in your new skates.  Enjoy!!! :wink:

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