The P28 explosion. Who switched, why and did it work?

[60PlusWinger 82]

So it seems like the P28s is the newest Drury... not in actual pattern layout but popularity for a changing game. When I ask why it is some guys in know that are playing pro say it is because it’s more of a possession game than ever. Heel curves seem to be out while everything is toe. Obviously there are other patterns to play and people that do very well with the dying breed. Anyone here switch to a 28? Anyone love it or end up hating it? Heels are being pushed out of retail and it seems like the world of college hockey consists of P88s, 92s and 28s. Thoughts? 

[Cavs019 702]

I’ve tried going from Drury to P92 or P28 about 100 times and hate them both every time. Perhaps I should change my name to DefintionOfInsanity019.

On the possession game idea- It’s much easier to pass and dangle with a straighter blade in my experience but if you’re good you can pass and dangle with a broomstick. Where the P28 does help I found is in toeing pucks out of scrums and pins along the boards where you have barely any space to pull the puck around someone’s skates as a second guy in on the forecheck, in the d zone as a support winger/center, etc  

I honestly think guys wanting to rip it like Ovechkin plays into it quite a bit. The Kreps/Samsonov Pro/Easton Euro Banana/Kovalchuk were also super coveted well before P28 went retail.

Finally- I think the lie and profile of the P28 is actually more forgiving than the P92 which has obviously been around forever. The P28 also has that flat heel area which has allowed some (not all) heel guys to move over. 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Cavs019

[puckpilot 312]

I'm in mid experimenting right now. I usually use a P92, which from my experience is just the P28 with the pocket moved more towards the toe. I find this allows me to shoot off the toe a lot easier and with more velocity. This is because I get more flex off the blade as well as the shaft. In a way, it's almost like I'm shooting with a longer stick because I'm getting more whip. 

In addition, because the pocket is moved up, there's a bigger flat along the back of the blade, making backhands more easy to get off. Don't really notice much of a difference in stickhandling. 

But the draw back I find is that it's less forgiving as to where I snap the shot off. If the puck isn't exactly in the pocket, it'll either go super high, when too far forward, or super low, when too far back on the blade. Very little middle ground. I think this is the only thing holding me back from making the complete change. When I'm practising, it's not so hard to have the puck in the pocket, but during the game, when I'm fighting though checks, the puck isn't so nicely squared away, so way less accuracy.  

[mojo122 529]

I transitioned from the P72/P91 to the P92 only because I know heel curves will be harder and harder to come by at retail.  I went P92 because it has a big blade similar to the P91.  Now if the PM9 had a bigger blade I might have gone down that road.  

[gosinger 122]

I switched from P92 (the main curve imported to Europe, not easy to get anything else) to P28.

What worked for me:

• better stickhandling (the deeper pocket "pushes" pucks to the middle / back of the blade) as I always know where the puck is / ends up
• better wrist shots as the puck settles in the pocket when pulling it from behind (skate heel or further)

What stayed the same for me:

• getting the puck up - roofing the puck at close distance hasn't been a problem
• backhand shots - shooting of the heel feels very similar
• passing / receiving passes - no problem and/or benefit for either of them

What doesn't work for me:

• worse slapshots / one-timers as I don't get as much power and accuracy on them compared to the P92 - probably a pure technique thing but I can't hit those one timers where the pass isn't perfect since transitioning

Will I stay there: yes, I had custom blades made by Fischer in the past when the P28 wasn't available, and loved the curve but not the blades. Now with good OPS being available in Europe with P28 I've switched and will stay there.

 

[stick9 881]

FWIW, never been a heel curve guy, ever. Started out a Coffey guy that transitioned to a Sakic to a Draper to a Hall then to a Backstrom.

I made the move from P92 to the P28, but did so unintentionally. I had the opportunity to grab a slightly used 1N for cheap money but it wasn’t my usual P92 pattern. I figured what the hell. Like I said, stupid cheap.

At the time I was having a bit of trouble picking up pucks in the corner and along the boards. They either went under the toe or came up over it. So I gave the P28 try and immediately fell in love with the puck control. It took some time adjusting to shooting off the toe and my accuracy and slap shot suffered a bit, but overall I much prefer it.

For whatever the reason, I like  Warriors variant (W28). Seems a bit more subtle. Slightly less open, slightly less hook.

Edited April 28, 2018 by stick9

[flip12 699]

12 hours ago, 60PlusWinger said:

So it seems like the P28s is the newest Drury... not in actual pattern layout but popularity for a changing game. When I ask why it is some guys in know that are playing pro say it is because it’s more of a possession game than ever. Heel curves seem to be out while everything is toe. Obviously there are other patterns to play and people that do very well with the dying breed. Anyone here switch to a 28? Anyone love it or end up hating it? Heels are being pushed out of retail and it seems like the world of college hockey consists of P88s, 92s and 28s. Thoughts? 

I think you had it right the first time: P28 is just an updated Drury, as in, it looks like the original Kreps was a Drury pattern modified by adding a toe curve and shaving the toe down a bit more for a more secure feeling between stick-puck-ice on toe snap shots.

Some of the sweet parts of using a Drury carry over on the P28: minimal wrist action required to launch flat saucer passes and the large puck carrying sweet spot along the flatter part of the blade's rocker by the heel.

TLDR: as an updated Drury, P28 is still a heel curve, just one with a toe curve thrown in as added bonus, i.e., no wonder it's spreading like Drury fire through the elite ranks.

[Jamarquan 201]

23 hours ago, mojo122 said:

I transitioned from the P72/P91 to the P92 only because I know heel curves will be harder and harder to come by at retail.  I went P92 because it has a big blade similar to the P91.  Now if the PM9 had a bigger blade I might have gone down that road.  

I still don't know what the P72 really is... that curve might be older than me. Google comes up with nothing of substance. Help me out here?

[215BroadStBullies610 434]

For me, it was only a matter of time. Started shooting off the toe in college using the, at the time, P88 - Lindros curve. After college, I started getting more and more interested in the equipment I use and wanted to start using toe-friendly curves. Next curve that I like was the P46 - Landeskog curve. Did the job well but due to CCM's shoddy blade work, I had to move on. I've been with the *28/TC4 curve now for 2-3 years. I like it but it is high maintenance. At least in the sense of knowing how to use the curve. Anytime I get lazy with my technique, the curve will let me know. I like the feel of the True TC4. I'd say my favorite versions have been the 2015 Bauer 1N and the Easton V9E. Even though its mid-kick vs. low-kick situation, those two sticks really led me to becoming a *28/TC4 fan boy haha.

Edited April 29, 2018 by 215BroadStBullies610

[Aggie 9]

1 hour ago, Jamarquan said:

I still don't know what the P72 really is... that curve might be older than me. Google comes up with nothing of substance. Help me out here?

The P72 is the same as the TPS P31, Innovative Sundin Pro, and Easton Styles.  It’s a flatter, lie 5 Drury with less rocker.  Still have a stash, as it’s one of my favorite curves.  

[Lfntn10 0]

I used the P28 since it came out but since then I've switched to the P30 which I will try tomorrow.  For me, my shots were hard but always high.  I hated over exaggerating my wrists on the follow through to keep it low.  I have a MC for my True stick (p88) and now a P30 for my Trigger 2.  I'll probably go back to my P28 at some point but right now I'm going to take a break from it.

[goalieman39 37]

From what my CCM Rep has been telling me, a lot of shooting schools are starting to teach kids more and more to shoot off the toe

[itslunchtime 17]

ALL HAIL SCOTT BJUGSTAD!!

I tried switching from a P88 -- had nice snappy wrist shots. but as someone else mentioned I would put them high if i got lazy without proper mechanics. I ended up taking a half inch off the stick to help me get my hands forward quicker and really push the toe down into ice. I enjoy playing with the stick but have since switched to the BC71 from Base which is a closed-ish toe curve and flatter rocker 

 

[sbisson91 10]

I went from the P90 to the P28 because I was gifted a pro stock RBZ Revolution. I wasn’t sold on it at first, but the more I used it, the better I found my ability to handle the puck. Toe drags were obviously made much easier. 

I was always a guy who liked to shoot high, and I just liked the P28 for that was well. 

Adter about a month of using the Revolution (which was an 80 flex C shaft), I decided to switch my Super Tacks from the P90 to the P28 and the T shaft to a C shaft. Best combination I’ve ever used. The puck just explodes off of the blade and the 75 flex + C shaft makes it feel like you’re shooting with a rubber hose. Snaps the puck so nicely. 

My current set up is 75 flex Super Tacks 2.0, P28 with a C shaft. I’d recommend it to anyone looking for better control and a quicker release. 

[flip12 699]

29 minutes ago, sbisson91 said:

I went from the P90 to the P28 because I was gifted a pro stock RBZ Revolution. I wasn’t sold on it at first, but the more I used it, the better I found my ability to handle the puck. Toe drags were obviously made much easier. 

I was always a guy who liked to shoot high, and I just liked the P28 for that was well. 

Adter about a month of using the Revolution (which was an 80 flex C shaft), I decided to switch my Super Tacks from the P90 to the P28 and the T shaft to a C shaft. Best combination I’ve ever used. The puck just explodes off of the blade and the 75 flex + C shaft makes it feel like you’re shooting with a rubber hose. Snaps the puck so nicely. 

My current set up is 75 flex Super Tacks 2.0, P28 with a C shaft. I’d recommend it to anyone looking for better control and a quicker release. 

Hate the C geometry. Feels like I'm playing with a Lilliputian's stick.

Edited April 29, 2018 by flip12

[start_today 757]

I'm a long time pm9 user, and occasional 88 user as pm9s become harder to find. I never, ever try new things. I find the marketing hype around the new blades particularly off putting. So, I gave a huge eyeroll the circle jerk of the e28 when it came out, and Easton's coining the term "dual lie," as if rockered blades hadn't been around for however many years. 

I bought a W28 last month to experiment a little. Maybe it's a hockey midlife crisis. I dunno. My wife works hard and makes good money, so I deserve to try new things. 

When I look at toe curves, they seem like a complete mess, and I don't know how pucks go in the net. But, actually using one, it wasn't a huge change. I think I got too caught up in one the toe looks like, and didn't look at the rest of the blade, which is relatively flat. My backhands are still mid level adult league backhands. Wrist shots still mostly go where I want them to, but knuckle on occasion, because I didn't turn my wrist much with other curves, but I'm working on that. 

I've never found any piece of equipment to be a huge game changer. I'm not suddenly firing lasers or rockets, throwing nasty sauce, or making sick dangles. I haven't had any more scouts than normal stop me after a pick up game and ask if I'm interested in a PTO contract. 

But, it's nice to know I have another option for curves. I think I actually like it better than 88 style curves, but I can't give a detailed description as to why. 

[psulion22 402]

The speed of the game has caused a change to the way guys shoot.  These toe twist curves are meant to help the player catapult and elevate the puck off the toe quickly in little space.  They are particularly effective when shooting off the "wrong" foot, which is faster.  By just pushing your hands in front, the puck slides to the toe and you can load the stick faster can be done from any position rather than having to correct your body to get a full motion wrister off.  Heel curves are great for what they do, but they require more time to get hard, high shots off.  Guys don't get that time anymore, so they've adapted.  What's nice about these curves, like the P28 and P30, is that they're a combo blade that has some of the benefits of the original curve combined with the new need for the toe twist.  As said above, Scott Bjugstad is a shooting coach (and Nick's uncle) and he's getting the elite players to shoot snap shots off the wrong foot more.  The curves have to keep up.

On 4/27/2018 at 10:48 PM, puckpilot said:

I'm in mid experimenting right now. I usually use a P92, which from my experience is just the P28 with the pocket moved more towards the toe. I find this allows me to shoot off the toe a lot easier and with more velocity. This is because I get more flex off the blade as well as the shaft. In a way, it's almost like I'm shooting with a longer stick because I'm getting more whip. 

In addition, because the pocket is moved up, there's a bigger flat along the back of the blade, making backhands more easy to get off. Don't really notice much of a difference in stickhandling. 

But the draw back I find is that it's less forgiving as to where I snap the shot off. If the puck isn't exactly in the pocket, it'll either go super high, when too far forward, or super low, when too far back on the blade. Very little middle ground. I think this is the only thing holding me back from making the complete change. When I'm practising, it's not so hard to have the puck in the pocket, but during the game, when I'm fighting though checks, the puck isn't so nicely squared away, so way less accuracy.  

 

On 4/28/2018 at 10:12 PM, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

For me, it was only a matter of time. Started shooting off the toe in college using the, at the time, P88 - Lindros curve. After college, I started getting more and more interested in the equipment I use and wanted to start using toe-friendly curves. Next curve that I like was the P46 - Landeskog curve. Did the job well but due to CCM's shoddy blade work, I had to move on. I've been with the *28/TC4 curve now for 2-3 years. I like it but it is high maintenance. At least in the sense of knowing how to use the curve. Anytime I get lazy with my technique, the curve will let me know. I like the feel of the True TC4. I'd say my favorite versions have been the 2015 Bauer 1N and the Easton V9E. Even though its mid-kick vs. low-kick situation, those two sticks really led me to becoming a *28/TC4 fan boy haha.

 

29 minutes ago, start_today said:

I'm a long time pm9 user, and occasional 88 user as pm9s become harder to find. I never, ever try new things. I find the marketing hype around the new blades particularly off putting. So, I gave a huge eyeroll the circle jerk of the e28 when it came out, and Easton's coining the term "dual lie," as if rockered blades hadn't been around for however many years. 

I bought a W28 last month to experiment a little. Maybe it's a hockey midlife crisis. I dunno. My wife works hard and makes good money, so I deserve to try new things. 

When I look at toe curves, they seem like a complete mess, and I don't know how pucks go in the net. But, actually using one, it wasn't a huge change. I think I got too caught up in one the toe looks like, and didn't look at the rest of the blade, which is relatively flat. My backhands are still mid level adult league backhands. Wrist shots still mostly go where I want them to, but knuckle on occasion, because I didn't turn my wrist much with other curves, but I'm working on that. 

I've never found any piece of equipment to be a huge game changer. I'm not suddenly firing lasers or rockets, throwing nasty sauce, or making sick dangles. I haven't had any more scouts than normal stop me after a pick up game and ask if I'm interested in a PTO contract. 

But, it's nice to know I have another option for curves. I think I actually like it better than 88 style curves, but I can't give a detailed description as to why. 

Try a P30 on CCM's sticks.  It's a P88 with a kink in the bottom of the toe.  It's much more forgiving than the P28, and more useful that a P88 because of the rounder toe.  I had the consistency problem with the P28 as well, on a pressured play I may not get the puck into the right spot and it would cause all sorts of issues.  The P30 is much more secure and consistent.  I'm hoping other compaines pick it up because I'm not sold on the Trigger2.

Edited April 30, 2018 by psulion22

[Jamarquan 201]

5 hours ago, psulion22 said:

The speed of the game has caused a change to the way guys shoot.  These toe twist curves are meant to help the player catapult and elevate the puck off the toe quickly in little space.  They are particularly effective when shooting off the "wrong" foot, which is faster.  By just pushing your hands in front, the puck slides to the toe and you can load the stick faster can be done from any position rather than having to correct your body to get a full motion wrister off.  Heel curves are great for what they do, but they require more time to get hard, high shots off.  Guys don't get that time anymore, so they've adapted.  What's nice about these curves, like the P28 and P30, is that they're a combo blade that has some of the benefits of the original curve combined with the new need for the toe twist.  As said above, Scott Bjugstad is a shooting coach (and Nick's uncle) and he's getting the elite players to shoot snap shots off the wrong foot more.  The curves have to keep up.

 

 

Try a P30 on CCM's sticks.  It's a P88 with a kink in the bottom of the toe.  It's much more forgiving than the P28, and more useful that a P88 because of the rounder toe.  I had the consistency problem with the P28 as well, on a pressured play I may not get the puck into the right spot and it would cause all sorts of issues.  The P30 is much more secure and consistent.  I'm hoping other compaines pick it up because I'm not sold on the Trigger2.

Isn't the p30 very close to the p14?

[Cavs019 702]

Heel curves had no problem keeping up with Sakic et. al. shooting off the wrong foot with the hands out in front. 

It’s more kool-aid as opposed to a true mechanical advantage here. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Cavs019

[psulion22 402]

13 minutes ago, Jamarquan said:

Isn't the p30 very close to the p14?

It looks similar, but the P14 looks more open at the toe.  I'd have to compare them in person to be sure.  The thing about the P30 is that the pic is deceiving.  The toe isn't that open.  There's just a little curl in the bottom corner of the toe but the top is still closed.  If it's really close I'd be pretty happy because i much preferred my '16 1X to this Trigger2, and maybe I could find one in P14.

[psulion22 402]

3 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

Heel curves had no problem keeping up with Sakic et. al. shooting off the wrong foot. 

It’s more kool-aid as opposed to a true mechanical advantage here. 

I don't know.  If you hear from the people designing the P28 and P30, you see what that kink does for the players using it.  There are videos of Scott Bjugstad and the folks at CCM talking about the design process.  The kink in the toe allows the face of the blade to be square to the net if the player pushes his hands forward and pulls the puck towards him, which is how a significantly higher number of shots is taken now.

[Cavs019 702]

The profile and shaved toe on the Drury lets you do the same thing (with more control for some given the absence of the toe banana)

I’m not denying the versatility of the P28- but let’s not act like this style of shooting was invented yesterday.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Cavs019

[psulion22 402]

19 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

The profile and shaved toe on the Drury lets you do the same thing (with more control for some given the absence of the toe banana)

I’m not denying the versatility of the P28- but let’s not act like this style of shooting was invented yesterday.

True, but it's being used and coached much more now.  Like much more.  It's not considered the "wrong" foot anymore.  And that's over the past 5 -6 years or so.  When Messier was doing it, it was this unconventional technique that he was known for.  Now that quick snap shot might be more comon than the full wrister.

[10013005 30]

57 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

True, but it's being used and coached much more now.  Like much more.  It's not considered the "wrong" foot anymore.  And that's over the past 5 -6 years or so.  When Messier was doing it, it was this unconventional technique that he was known for.  Now that quick snap shot might be more comon than the full wrister.

among the high-level skills coaches I work with there's been a swing the other way where they consider the inside foot release (wrong foot snap shot) to be less projectable at pro level since it is harder to hide the shot inside the skating stride. if you look at James Neal's shot here you'll see he's able to create a lot of deception by shifting his weight onto his front (outside) foot, which is what the best in the business (both players and skills dev coaches) are working on now.

 

As for the P28, more than 15 yrs ago Brett Hull used a big toe curve with a huge rocker and a whippy shaft. I used a stick like that for a while and now a P28 75 flex off the shelf gives me a similar feel and similar benefits (big sweet spot when taking one-timers, able to pull the puck in and change the angle) in a more user-friendly form (bigger blade than the Hull pro and much easier to find).

Hull's Shooting and Scoring instructional:

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by 10013005

[Jamarquan 201]

2 hours ago, psulion22 said:

It looks similar, but the P14 looks more open at the toe.  I'd have to compare them in person to be sure.  The thing about the P30 is that the pic is deceiving.  The toe isn't that open.  There's just a little curl in the bottom corner of the toe but the top is still closed.  If it's really close I'd be pretty happy because i much preferred my '16 1X to this Trigger2, and maybe I could find one in P14.

You can find T100s for like $90 if you are okay with a mid kick.