CXN to Edge

[Daroah 0]

Evening All,

Long time reader, infrequent poster.  Searching the site for definitive perspective on shims vs. profiling.  My daughter is a strong skater playing tier I girls hockey.  She is wearing Mako II skates, CXN holders, blacksteel blades and superfeet carbon insoles.  I recently purchased a brand new pair of Mako II skates in her size with Edge holders - CXN blacksteel blades are impossible to find.  After reading through posts I believe the CXN pitch is +2 and the Edge is neutral.  In order to maintain that setup assuming my understanding is correct, is it preferable to shim the heel or profile the steel to mirror the pitch in the CXN holders?  It seems profiling the blade is much less precise and open to interpretation as opposed to the one time shim.  Thanks in advance.  

[smcgreg 81]

9 hours ago, Daroah said:

Evening All,

Long time reader, infrequent poster.  Searching the site for definitive perspective on shims vs. profiling.  My daughter is a strong skater playing tier I girls hockey.  She is wearing Mako II skates, CXN holders, blacksteel blades and superfeet carbon insoles.  I recently purchased a brand new pair of Mako II skates in her size with Edge holders - CXN blacksteel blades are impossible to find.  After reading through posts I believe the CXN pitch is +2 and the Edge is neutral.  In order to maintain that setup assuming my understanding is correct, is it preferable to shim the heel or profile the steel to mirror the pitch in the CXN holders?  It seems profiling the blade is much less precise and open to interpretation as opposed to the one time shim.  Thanks in advance.  

Wow... you bought a brand new pair of Mako IIs?  There are still some of us left.  I hope you're not going for the same sizes as me... 😉

Anyway, I'm sure there will be some skate tech guys that will chime in, but as someone who has done a lot of tinkering with Makos and shims, I would argue the contrary to your point.  If you get a good profiler, it will be more accurate than shims.  The precision of measurement of still and subsequent profiling from those who are experienced and good should be right on the nose.  Whereas shims would likely be less precise.  On the other hand, profiles can change over time with repeated sharpenings, whereas shims will not.  Granted, with shims, the profile can still change with sharpenings anyway. 

For me, since both my kids are very good skaters and still in Makos (as am I) until I can't find anymore in the US for them to grow into, I will tell you that for both of them, I simply have the steel profiled -2.  The combined pitch of the holder and steel is +3.  To me personally and from their comments, the +3 is too aggressive (one is defenseman and the other is a very good backwards skater) so, they don't like the aggressive pitch.  I don't like it either and negative profile mine as well.  Anyways...... both of them get a -2 pitch on the steel, which leaves the skates at +1 overall and they're good.  My son skated in Vapors for a year before moving to Makos.  We initially put Tuuk holders on the Makos to get them to feel like Vapors, but the rivets pulled out a lot.  So, after that first pair of skates, we went to negative profiling and it works much better.  Since rivet integrity is an issue on Makos, I would probably try  to avoid shims to avoid any manipulation of the rivet holder interface.  Since we've gone to negative pitch with the kids, there have been far fewer rivet issues. 

I hope that helps.

[smcgreg 81]

As a follow up, I think the main issue with shims versus profiling to me would be the rivets.  As I say, for the TUUKs, which should have been fine since the holes align pretty well, we had consistent rivet issues.  On the other hand, for my son, with his most recent pair that simply profiled -2, he hasn't had one issue in about 3 months skating about 8+ hr per week.  I hesitate to use my skates as an example since they are highly modified, but for the one I have shims on, I have consistent rivet problems.  So, avoiding putting unusual stress on that rivet holder interface is probably the main factor in both cases.  I would recommend profiling. 

[Daroah 0]

Got it thanks for the perspective.  Being in Colorado I was a little concerned, and still am, about being able to find somebody to accurately profile as it seems just getting a skate sharpened correctly can be an adventure.  Thanks again.  

[smcgreg 81]

Well, you could ask JR if he has any connections out there.  I know there are Pure Hockeys in Littleton (not sure how close to you) and if they have the same QC as the Total Hockeys out east, that would be my pick.  Other than that, I can't help.  Sorry.  Alternatively, you could send the steel to somebody like JR or others on this site for a profile you would have confidence in.  Actually, not sure if JRs doing profiles yet, but mail might be an option if you don't have confidence locally.

[VegasHockey 1256]

4 hours ago, smcgreg said:

Wow... you bought a brand new pair of Mako IIs?  There are still some of us left.  I hope you're not going for the same sizes as me... 😉

Anyway, I'm sure there will be some skate tech guys that will chime in, but as someone who has done a lot of tinkering with Makos and shims, I would argue the contrary to your point.  If you get a good profiler, it will be more accurate than shims.  The precision of measurement of still and subsequent profiling from those who are experienced and good should be right on the nose.  Whereas shims would likely be less precise.  On the other hand, profiles can change over time with repeated sharpenings, whereas shims will not.  Granted, with shims, the profile can still change with sharpenings anyway. 

For me, since both my kids are very good skaters and still in Makos (as am I) until I can't find anymore in the US for them to grow into, I will tell you that for both of them, I simply have the steel profiled -2.  The combined pitch of the holder and steel is +3.  To me personally and from their comments, the +3 is too aggressive (one is defenseman and the other is a very good backwards skater) so, they don't like the aggressive pitch.  I don't like it either and negative profile mine as well.  Anyways...... both of them get a -2 pitch on the steel, which leaves the skates at +1 overall and they're good.  My son skated in Vapors for a year before moving to Makos.  We initially put Tuuk holders on the Makos to get them to feel like Vapors, but the rivets pulled out a lot.  So, after that first pair of skates, we went to negative profiling and it works much better.  Since rivet integrity is an issue on Makos, I would probably try  to avoid shims to avoid any manipulation of the rivet holder interface.  Since we've gone to negative pitch with the kids, there have been far fewer rivet issues. 

I hope that helps.

The shop inside of Las Vegas Ice has many pairs of Makos still.