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hockeydad3

Supreme or Nexus Skates?

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The question above is the result from another thread:

 

"I´m 51 years old, 170 cm and 95kg. I have a flat learning curve. Our sessions are typically half an hour practice with no break and half an hour playing against each other. We are max. 20 players down to 12 players, that means max two lines are playing against the others. During practice we are skating or standing around on the ice. After a few minutes i`m getting a strong Pain around the footsole and my middlefoot and my feet are getting cold. This Pain vanishes after some minutes of playing.There is no correlation to a special skate (Graf MCI 5035 6.5R/ Bauer Supreme 160s 6.5EE ore insole CCM/Superfeet Carbon pro Hockey/Bauer Speedplate 2.0). The Supremes with the Speedplates are my actual setup which seems to be the best one until now. Skating about 12 hours and three bakes on the supremes  Waxed laces and tying them tight on the forefoot, loose to snug on the middlefoot and tight on the two upper eylets due to a small forefoot, a voluminous middlefoot and a normal heel and ankle. I need a strong ankle support due to my weight and skill level."

" My foot ratio is 2,6 which means Supremes. I tried Vapors EE, Supremes D beeing too narrow and Nexus EE beeing too wide. The Supreme EE was feeling OK. I didn´t have the opportunity to try Nexus in D. The s160 have been a good deal second hand, skated only once without baking. They have a perfect heel-lock. when standing  unlaced and my toes touching the cap i can barely put a pencil behind my heel. After tying them snug and standing upright my big toe is just one or two mms´s away from the toe cap. The pencil test just fails for maybe two mm`s  from eylet two to six. My laces are 120" long. With 108" laces i had to undo the first two eylets to get them wide enough to put on my skates. After tying my skates the distance between the eylets is wider on the midfoot than on the forefoot or the bootleg."

" The problem is during practice. Standing around on the ice without a break for half an hour gives me the horrible pain. The pain vanishes when playing with two lines and sitting on the bench during shifts. So constant pressure on my feet seems to induce the pain. Tying loose does reduce the pain but doesn´t give me enough ankle-support. Same problem like in my Graf´s. The improvement over the Graf´s is that my Supremes have a good forward-flex and my big toes dont´t touch the cap anymore and they are more forgiving, but less direct."

 

I want to give the supremes some hours skating and another bake. But if this doesn´t help should i try Nexus-D Skates?

And how could i predict that this will solve my problems? Testing them on the sofa my supremes  gave me a good feeling.

Has anyone out there experience with skating both actual Bauer lines, best in Supreme-EE and Nexus-D?

Is there another way than buying and skating the skates for some hours to know if they are really comfortable for me?

Thank you for your answers.

MARTIN

 

 

Edited by hockeydad3

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Nexus D or an equivalent in another boot would be the next step. Seems like the width of the boot in the middle of the skate is problematic here. Another option would be TRUE skates custom to order.

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2 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

Has anyone out there experience with skating both actual Bauer lines, best in Supreme-EE and Nexus-D?

I have both these skates. I have Nexus N9000 in Ds and Supreme S190s in EEs. I'm an adult 5'5 175lbs with size 4.5 feet. Been skating since I was a kid. When I was buying skates a few years ago the Supremes were giving me volume issues, but they fit me in every other way. Fearing lacebite, I went with the Nexus. I found for me, the forefoot width was about the same in both skates, but there was a lot more vertical space in the Nexus toe box. I had to use powerfoot inserts to reduce the negative space there. I also had to add padding to the sides of Nexus's heel area, had to wear Stable 26 socks, and use a custom lacing method to get proper heel lock.

Though it was a bit of work, I was relatively happy with my Nexus skates after all the adjustments were made, but was always curious about the Supremes. After a couple of years, I saw the Supremes on sale for an insanely good price, so I got them just to see if there were things I could do to avoid the lacebite. The first little while with the Supremes, I was getting mild to moderate lacebite, even when I used lacebite pads, but as the tongue broke in, I found the lace bite pretty much went away. It only appears in a mild form when I'm doing lots of hard edging drills with lots of repetition. Doesn't show up at all during games.

I find with both skates, if I lace up the skates too tight, I get pain in the midfoot. I baked my Nexus skates, but found that the Supremes were fine right out of the box. Never had them baked. 

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17 hours ago, puckpilot said:

I have both these skates. I have Nexus N9000 in Ds and Supreme S190s in EEs. I'm an adult 5'5 175lbs with size 4.5 feet. Been skating since I was a kid. When I was buying skates a few years ago the Supremes were giving me volume issues, but they fit me in every other way. Fearing lacebite, I went with the Nexus. I found for me, the forefoot width was about the same in both skates, but there was a lot more vertical space in the Nexus toe box. I had to use powerfoot inserts to reduce the negative space there. I also had to add padding to the sides of Nexus's heel area, had to wear Stable 26 socks, and use a custom lacing method to get proper heel lock.

Though it was a bit of work, I was relatively happy with my Nexus skates after all the adjustments were made, but was always curious about the Supremes. After a couple of years, I saw the Supremes on sale for an insanely good price, so I got them just to see if there were things I could do to avoid the lacebite. The first little while with the Supremes, I was getting mild to moderate lacebite, even when I used lacebite pads, but as the tongue broke in, I found the lace bite pretty much went away. It only appears in a mild form when I'm doing lots of hard edging drills with lots of repetition. Doesn't show up at all during games.

I find with both skates, if I lace up the skates too tight, I get pain in the midfoot. I baked my Nexus skates, but found that the Supremes were fine right out of the box. Never had them baked. 

Well, my supremes gave me a lot of pain the first skates. Baking was absolutely necessary, but i never got any blisters or bruises or lacebite. Only pain and cold numb feet.

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I had the same pain, including numbness when laced tight, in my Supremes. I couldn't make it through a stick and puck session, and the pain started sooner evetr time I got on the ice (so I assume there was damage occurring and getting worse). I tried a million ways to lace, some helped, but nothing fixed the problem.

 

I moved into Tacks and things got 90% better instantly. I rebaked, tied looser in the midfoot, and gained another 5%. Lastly, I found a way to lace that allowed me to go good and tight for ankle support with no issues for mid or forefoot, called ladder lacing.

A Google search will give tons of results. I think people do it in sneakers for style/looks, but what it ends up doing is locking the laces in place at the tightness you set. I have them laced this way from the bottom eyelets up to where the facing is about to go up. From there it's regular lacing. No matter how hard to tighten, the ladder portion stays where you set it.

 

Again, things were 95% better before going to crazy lacing, it ended up just being the Cherry on top for me. 

I know the pain you're dealing with, and you should figure it out asap before it compounds. You'll be so happy once you do. It takes work finding a boot that doesn't crush your midfoot if it's overly wide. Good luck.

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For what it's worth I've been on lots of skates 5 pair over the last year. When skates fit properly there is literally no break in period. They will be comfortable from the get go. No fussing with the laces. Just put them on snug them up and go. When skates were leather you would "break them in" todays skates form fit with a bake and that's that.

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I went from Supreme S160 to Bauer Customs, and the latter are from another world. The ankle areas have some lovely foam padding, and the tongue wraps my foot, in a way the s160 tongue never did. They grip my ankles, but leave me with ankle flex which my s160 skates did not. I sometimes got lace bite from the s160, never from the customs. Lacing is easier, and the wrap is more even around the foot. I did have tightness and discomfort round the front of each foot, but with a couple more bakes, and lots of skating, they seem to be stretching, and forming round my feet rather nicely. I have a suspicion from what numerous friends have told me that the higher end non custom skates are more comfortable, and less prone to lace bite and other nasties, assuming you have reasonably ‘normal’ feet, due to the extra effort Bauer, CCM and others put in when making them. 

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After one baking and some hours on the ice my S160 starts to feel less supportive.The pain is better but still dominat but ican´t get an outside-edge. The skate has developed more room in the lenght so a pencil has room behind my heel.and the balancepoint feels weird. Like my feet are lateral and behind the balancepoint. Trying to hold my center over the balancepoint is very tiring. Are my skates too long and to wide after breaking in? Are they not stiff enough for my weight and their size?

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EU 41, US8, lenght of my feet is 25,5cm, 95kg. My S160 are 6.5 EE skate size. Should be the correct length for me. But i found out that bauer EE-size seems to be a half-size  longer than D-size.

Edited by hockeydad3

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At 210lbs, if you're new to skating and have bad form you might be pushing the skate beyond it's limits.

 

Based on price point, your Supremes look about equivalent to my original skates (supreme one.6). They lacked stiffness and EASILY allowed me to overtighten, crushing my foot.

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1 hour ago, hockeydad3 said:

Are my skates too long and to wide after breaking in? Are they not stiff enough for my weight and their size?

When the skate breaks in, the liner can compress, making the skate around 1/4 size larger. According to this chart below, at 25.5 cm, you're somewhere between a 6 and a 6.5. Not sure if the EE are a half size larger, but if you're wearing a D, it's harder for your foot to shift around, so it may seem smaller.

For me, I'm in between sizes too, but I went to the smaller sized skate and found that choice worked out better. One thing to remember is you can stretch skates at least 1/4 size larger to get them to fit better, but you can't really shrink them. From your description, there's a good possibility that after the liner compressed, your skates are about a half size too large for you right now, especially if you fail the pencil test.

Aside from getting new skates, you can try wearing some padding like bunga pads. They'll push your foot up a tiny bit, but it's still an imperfect solution and may affect heel lock. 

The lack of support is probably due more to the skate being a bit big than the actual material. In general, you can learn to skate and get used to skating with little lateral support from your skate. I'm not expert on figure skates, but from the outside looking in, they don't have nearly the same support as hockey skates, and well, most do just find with them. 

http://www.hockeytutorial.com/uncategorized/ice-hockey-skate-sizing-chart-width-and-length/

 

 

Edited by puckpilot

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23 minutes ago, puckpilot said:

When the skate breaks in, the liner can compress, making the skate around 1/4 size larger. According to this chart below, at 25.5 cm, you're somewhere between a 6 and a 6.5. Not sure if the EE are a half size larger, but if you're wearing a D, it's harder for your foot to shift around, so it may seem smaller.

For me, I'm in between sizes too, but I went to the smaller sized skate and found that choice worked out better. One thing to remember is you can stretch skates at least 1/4 size larger to get them to fit better, but you can't really shrink them. From your description, there's a good possibility that after the liner compressed, your skates are about a half size too large for you right now.

Aside from getting new skates, you can try wearing some padding like bunga pads. They'll push your foot up a tiny bit, but it's still an imperfect solution and may affect heel lock. 

The lack of support is probably due more to the skate being a bit big than the actual material. In general, you can learn to skate and get used to skating with little lateral support from your skate. I'm not expert on figure skates, but from the outside looking in, they don't have nearly the same support as hockey skates, and well, most do just find with them. 

http://www.hockeytutorial.com/uncategorized/ice-hockey-skate-sizing-chart-width-and-length/

 

 

According to the Bauer blade-size-chart 6.0 D and EE have the 254mm runner,  6.5D the 254mm and 6.5EE the 263mm  runner. 7.0 is again 263mm for both and so on. The speedblade insole size is 7,0 for the 6.5EE and should be cut down to 6.5 for the 6.5D.

But i´m sure that a 6.5D supreme would kill my midfoot due to my instep/midfoot size.

Try to find some 6.5D nexus. The N2700 or better the stiffer N2900.? I´m still on the beginner level but from the heavy side.

Edited by hockeydad3

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Want to give you some feedback.

I had big luck and could get a pair of nexus N2900 in 6.5D only once used, not baked, as second hand..

Baked them, skated two times in public skating and one hockey training (75min).

The N2900 6.5D are shorter and narrower all over than the S160 6.5EE, but have a slightly deeper instep and heel, though i barely fail the pencil test for the instep again.

The nexus skates have a snugg fit without laces, the supremes are falling from my my feet when shaking without laces. During skating the balancepoint seems to be in the right place.

At the moment i´m hopefull that i finally could find a suitable pair of skates.

 

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