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2 hours ago, mojo122 said:

The thermoform-able  properties of the 2X Pro are amazing.  To me the new tongue makes it feel less bulky than the 1X 2.0.  

What size do you wear? Maybe it's just the EE they made bulkier. The D width seems more streamlined. 

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6EE...Huge difference after molding.  I've always worn Supremes but this skate has me on the fence.

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On 7/7/2019 at 11:42 AM, Mass said:

It gives the boot more flexibility, which is supposed to result in better agility, and east west movements. I mean, it could be legit if done right. If the boot flexes more, and moves with you, then this would result in better agility

I watched the pure hockey review video of these skates, and the guy explicitly stated around 3:50-ish that the dyna flex is just a name assigned to this “system”, which includes the toe cap, injected lacing, carbon curv composite, new foam/liner, tongue, etc. It seems like wishy washy marketing nonsense to me. Probably could have just tacked on the new toe caps on the 1x and called that dyna flex.

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2 hours ago, BlueNux said:

I watched the pure hockey review video of these skates, and the guy explicitly stated around 3:50-ish that the dyna flex is just a name assigned to this “system”, which includes the toe cap, injected lacing, carbon curv composite, new foam/liner, tongue, etc. It seems like wishy washy marketing nonsense to me. Probably could have just tacked on the new toe caps on the 1x and called that dyna flex.

Yeah. I think the 2X and the 2X Pro both incorporate the same designs and such except for the recoil tongue, which I personally hate. It's not as bad as the previous generation tongue or the 2S Pro, but it's still too stiff and prevents proper forward flexion. 

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I find the 2S Pro tongue flexes just fine.  From a performance standpoint it offers more performance than the 1S did.  My only complaint is that the felt is too thick where it comes off the toecap.  It does compress rather nicely or at least mine has after 9 months of skating 4 times/week.

If someone isn't getting proper forward flex in the 2S Pro or 2X Pro it could be, that being a pro level skate it's too much skate for their skating ability.

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3 hours ago, mojo122 said:

I find the 2S Pro tongue flexes just fine.  From a performance standpoint it offers more performance than the 1S did.  My only complaint is that the felt is too thick where it comes off the toecap.  It does compress rather nicely or at least mine has after 9 months of skating 4 times/week.

If someone isn't getting proper forward flex in the 2S Pro or 2X Pro it could be, that being a pro level skate it's too much skate for their skating ability.

Some skaters with great skating ability opt for a flexier tongue to suit their taste. Skate stiffness and skating ability don’t correlate directly, just as shaft stiffness and stick skills don’t.

Edited by flip12
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7 hours ago, flip12 said:

Some skaters with great skating ability opt for a flexier tongue to suit their taste. Skate stiffness and skating ability don’t correlate directly, just as shaft stiffness and stick skills don’t.

Correct. Which is why you rarely see the new Bauer tongues being used at the Pro level vs retail.

I remember some kids coming into the store and one of them played for Team USA U18 National Team. He hadn't been into a typical retail store in a year or so. His first reaction to a lot of stuff was "GOD, THAT IS UGLY" or "HOW COULD ANYONE SKATE WITH X or Y."

It was quite entertaining. 

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18 hours ago, flip12 said:

Some skaters with great skating ability opt for a flexier tongue to suit their taste. Skate stiffness and skating ability don’t correlate directly, just as shaft stiffness and stick skills don’t.

Skater preference.  You can get that at retail if you go custom.

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15 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Skater preference.  You can get that at retail if you go custom.

That’s precisely the point I was making. In order to opt for less of something (stiffness in this case), it has to be an actual option.

I still strongly disagree with the oft expressed notion that a stiffer skate entails a stronger skater. There are plenty of counter examples, but the general rule would have to account for context, and in the current hockey skate market an argument can be made for skates being too stiff for the good even of the strongest skaters in the world. That’s what I was trying to get across.

I absolutely agree it comes down to personal preference.

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Anybody see any weights online for the pro or standard 2x? Haven't seen anything from bauer as of yet

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3 hours ago, Mass said:

Anybody see any weights online for the pro or standard 2x? Haven't seen anything from bauer as of yet

Mine are size 7 customs they weigh 862.3 grams I have Step Blacksteel runners and the speedplate 2.0 Forbes in them so it’s probably a lol heavier than the retail version. It’s definitely heavier than my 2015 1Xs but you don’t notice the extra weight after a couple skates and there a huge upgrade in my opinion the energy transfer is better you can feel the difference plus most comfortable skates I’ve ever worn, mine are customs but I’ve heard the same from people that tried on the retail version.

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Getting fit for these hopefully this week, if not next. Really excited for the toe cap but worried I won't like how stiff they'll be (2X Pro). Also really love that 90 day return policy on FT2.... but the toe cap was pretty narrow, killed my toes for the first few skates. With my pretty low volume foot and narrow heel, basically nothing else these days fit.

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On 6/17/2019 at 2:02 AM, Sniper9 said:

True skates are built from the last inside out, starting with the liners placed on the last itself and then built all the way out to the trim. 

 From the videos Ive seen for CCM, Even for total custom CCM skates, they use high pressure moulding of a pre made quarter package onto the individual's last, which imo, is just like heat moulding but on steroids. 

Also, CCM saying their boots are "one piece" is kind of false advertising imo, as you can clearly see the crease/ line on the heel area, similar to the joint on the old "one piece" fused sticks. 

Just wanted to refresh this line of this thread because I unsurfaced this while digging through Sport Maska (CCM) patents on Google Patents:

imgf0009.png

Here's the patent, Skate and method of manufacture, from 2014: https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2932864B1

That's the closest I've found to an inside look at what could be an indication of how CCM's OPBs are made. It's the same mold form I was envisioning creating that seam trace you can see along the middle of the shell.

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On 8/3/2019 at 3:10 PM, flip12 said:

Just wanted to refresh this line of this thread because I unsurfaced this while digging through Sport Maska (CCM) patents on Google Patents:

imgf0009.png

Here's the patent, Skate and method of manufacture, from 2014: https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2932864B1

That's the closest I've found to an inside look at what could be an indication of how CCM's OPBs are made. It's the same mold form I was envisioning creating that seam trace you can see along the middle of the shell.

Good find. 

That line in the back is not a seam as some have suggested. Its what we call a parting line. You almost always end up with lines at points in which the tools come together. Some are dressed better than others.

Edited by stick9
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On 6/14/2019 at 4:35 PM, BlueNux said:

I have to say, irregardless of actual performance benefits, Bauer just feels like they're falling behind CCM from an average consumer's standpoint.

With CCM removing unnecessary materials and improving their one-piece tech generation after generation, the new Vapors look so outdated. So much extra stitching, layered materials, etc.

Even if the one-piece benefit is overstated at the moment, there's no denying that CCM is putting R&D money to improve their technology every year. Compared to Bauer pushing out the same CURV composite every year, I'm really happy with what CCM is doing. Bauer didn't even want to put any soft comfort edge padding on their 2S model last year.

If you can fit equally well into Vapor and Jetspeed, why would you opt for Vapors at this point? Would you ever pick the 2X over the FT490?

What's wrong with Curv? Its the gold standard in skates, still, 11 years later.

And between picking either Vapor or JetSpeed at the $900 or $600 level, I'd still go Vapor. I don't see 3 year old CCMs at all for that high-end U20/U18/U16 player, however I do still see Bauers. At the two year old level I still see some CCMs but they are in much worse shape than their Bauer counterpart and I've had a couple of kids buy 3 pairs of ST/FT1/AS1/FT2 now in the last 4 years. Not because they're out growing but because they aren't lasting for them. Conversely, I've had 1 person buy 3 pairs of 1S/1X/2SPro/2XPro in the last 4 years, and that's because they outgrew their 1S and their second pair of them got ran over by the SUV while it was drying so they bought 2S pros. 

 

For a durability stand-point, Bauer is still on top of the skate world. And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of what CCM is pushing out - but nothing beats CURV durability in hockey, yet.

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9 hours ago, raganblink said:

What's wrong with Curv? Its the gold standard in skates, still, 11 years later.

And between picking either Vapor or JetSpeed at the $900 or $600 level, I'd still go Vapor. I don't see 3 year old CCMs at all for that high-end U20/U18/U16 player, however I do still see Bauers. At the two year old level I still see some CCMs but they are in much worse shape than their Bauer counterpart and I've had a couple of kids buy 3 pairs of ST/FT1/AS1/FT2 now in the last 4 years. Not because they're out growing but because they aren't lasting for them. Conversely, I've had 1 person buy 3 pairs of 1S/1X/2SPro/2XPro in the last 4 years, and that's because they outgrew their 1S and their second pair of them got ran over by the SUV while it was drying so they bought 2S pros. 

 

For a durability stand-point, Bauer is still on top of the skate world. And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of what CCM is pushing out - but nothing beats CURV durability in hockey, yet.

I don't think top of the line Bauer or CCM skates are nearly as durable as they should be for their price point. IMO, the new Vapor skates look  kind of cheap compared to the FT2. That's ugly bright yellow and such really devalues the look of the skate. 

Edited by Nicholas G

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1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:

I don't think top of the line Bauer or CCM skates are nearly as durable as they should be for their price point. IMO, the new Vapor skates look  kind of cheap compared to the FT2. That's ugly bright yellow and such really devalues the look of the skate. 

Ketchup, mustard, and bratwurst is the theme of this generation of Vapor sticks and skates, so at least it’s consistent if not really coherent.

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10 hours ago, raganblink said:

But if they're durable who cares? I remember in 2015 when everyone complained about the 1X. Or 2011 about the APX. Bad looks =/= durability.

I think Bauer still uses too many materials in the new 2X series of skates that are not durable. 

 

qoF2LMd.jpg

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Tried the 2X pro's on this weekend... Eek. Could just be me but I did not like the way they fit or felt at all. FT2 was much better in the same size and width. I was expecting a lot from that toe cap but it's still no Mako. Pretty let down.

 

Good thing I have some True's coming next month.

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1 hour ago, z1ggy said:

Tried the 2X pro's on this weekend... Eek. Could just be me but I did not like the way they fit or felt at all. FT2 was much better in the same size and width. I was expecting a lot from that toe cap but it's still no Mako. Pretty let down.

Good thing I have some True's coming next month.

I felt the same way. I actually got a free pair of the 2X Pro skates and had them for less than a week before I sold them. I am now only have a pair of pro stock FT2 and the new TRUE skates. Maybe if I went full custom with the 2X Pro they would feel better... I am sure once they pro stock models start popping up online I will buy a pair. I sometimes just can't help myself. lol

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2 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I felt the same way. I actually got a free pair of the 2X Pro skates and had them for less than a week before I sold them. I am now only have a pair of pro stock FT2 and the new TRUE skates. Maybe if I went full custom with the 2X Pro they would feel better... I am sure once they pro stock models start popping up online I will buy a pair. I sometimes just can't help myself. lol

Yeah the stock 2x pro honestly felt pretty bad. Just very boxy and not "foot shaped" at all. Mako is still the best bone stock offering ever made IMO. FT2 is close but the toe box isnt very anatomical although the FT2 is a touch better than FT1.

 

Either way I'm sure my True's are going to blow FT2 out of the water with fitment. I imagine a total custom 2X pro would be better than bone stock FT2 but at that point... Might as well just go True if you're not a pro paid to play/wear.

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6 hours ago, stick9 said:

So you were given a pair of skates that weren't released and you sold them??

🙄

Yeah, waited for the general release date and then sold them. 

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