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On 8/18/2019 at 8:55 PM, Nicholas G said:

I think Bauer still uses too many materials in the new 2X series of skates that are not durable. 

 

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So 2 things that they've had forever on skates? One that continues to be improved and the other that has never been an issue? Not sure what your point is here.

Until I start seeing 1 piece CCM boots that are older than 2 piece Bauer boots, Bauer will still be the more durable skate. We'll know in a year if there is a durability difference between FT2 and 2X Pro - I can tell you the 2S Pros are holding up better than the AS1s...

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I just picked up a pair of these 2X pros and IMO these skates have improved in terms of comfort especially the toe box. I use the thin piece of the powerfoot insert. 

I  like the look of these new skates and I remember when the 2015 1X skates were released, not many people liked the looks of those too. Remember when APX skates were released?

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1 hour ago, Solo_man11 said:

I just picked up a pair of these 2X pros and IMO these skates have improved in terms of comfort especially the toe box. I use the thin piece of the powerfoot insert. 

I  like the look of these new skates and I remember when the 2015 1X skates were released, not many people liked the looks of those too. Remember when APX skates were released?

The APX was ugly. 

 

4 hours ago, raganblink said:

So 2 things that they've had forever on skates? One that continues to be improved and the other that has never been an issue? Not sure what your point is here.

Until I start seeing 1 piece CCM boots that are older than 2 piece Bauer boots, Bauer will still be the more durable skate. We'll know in a year if there is a durability difference between FT2 and 2X Pro - I can tell you the 2S Pros are holding up better than the AS1s...

Owning shops I see a ton of skates. Overall Bauer doesn't hold up as well as TRUE and CCM. The exception would be the first generation Super Tacks and the FT1. The AS1 has been pretty good for wear and tear and the FT2 as well. 

As for what I was specifically calling out in the photos was the unnecessary need to add a faux leather piece to the heel and the embellishments by the one piece eyelet system. 

Also, I spend so much time fixing those one piece eyelets I will never be convinced they are better than standard eyelets. 

Just my opinion though. Not right or wrong. Just what I've seen. 

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1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:

The APX was ugly. 

 

Owning shops I see a ton of skates. Overall Bauer doesn't hold up as well as TRUE and CCM. The exception would be the first generation Super Tacks and the FT1. The AS1 has been pretty good for wear and tear and the FT2 as well. 

As for what I was specifically calling out in the photos was the unnecessary need to add a faux leather piece to the heel and the embellishments by the one piece eyelet system. 

Also, I spend so much time fixing those one piece eyelets I will never be convinced they are better than standard eyelets. 

Just my opinion though. Not right or wrong. Just what I've seen. 

Hmmm, that is really interesting. I have never had an issue with Bauer injected lacing on my 2015 1X skates but looks like Bauer has improved the injected lacing system with the materials. I will say traditional eyelets especially near the top, i have replaced many times though.

Also looks are subjective, I play with a guy who has True skates and said my skates look ugly but IMO i dont think his skates look all that great. He also commented saying his True skates were very durable. i saw that his bolts were rusted and the inside liner has tears in the upper and lower heel area.

I think this thread is getting to be negative towards the 2X pro and Bauer, I chose Vapor because it fits and really didn't have issues with them in the past.

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1 hour ago, Solo_man11 said:

Hmmm, that is really interesting. I have never had an issue with Bauer injected lacing on my 2015 1X skates but looks like Bauer has improved the injected lacing system with the materials. I will say traditional eyelets especially near the top, i have replaced many times though.

Also looks are subjective, I play with a guy who has True skates and said my skates look ugly but IMO i dont think his skates look all that great. He also commented saying his True skates were very durable. i saw that his bolts were rusted and the inside liner has tears in the upper and lower heel area.

I think this thread is getting to be negative towards the 2X pro and Bauer, I chose Vapor because it fits and really didn't have issues with them in the past.

Not negative at all on Bauer and the 2X Pro is substantially better than the other iterations that precede it. There is a lot to like but I do feel there were some things they could/should have improved upon and just decided to cut corners a bit. Seems to me that the 2S has become the forward thinking technology focused skate and the Vapor line is just small incremental updates. It used to be the opposite. 

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2 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Seems to me that the 2S has become the forward thinking technology focused skate and the Vapor line is just small incremental updates. It used to be the opposite. 

Maybe back in 1998...

Ever since the ONE90 15 years ago, Supreme has been Bauer’s technologically advanced skate, cycle after cycle. Vapor didn’t have to change much as it was always popular in terms of fit. 

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Weren’t some people complaining about the fact that their True’s DIDN'T come with a pointless heel cup not long ago?

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3 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

Weren’t some people complaining about the fact that their True’s DIDN'T come with a pointless heel cup not long ago?

I hope not. That's the first thing I remove off those skates. Lol 

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9 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Maybe back in 1998...

Ever since the ONE90 15 years ago, Supreme has been Bauer’s technologically advanced skate, cycle after cycle. Vapor didn’t have to change much as it was always popular in terms of fit. 

Wasn't the injected stability lacing system first in Vapor and then rolled out to Supreme? What about that silly Vapor 1x 2d gen tongue? 

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Overall? CCM has only recently started making a legit product. True has been around for 2, 3 years? I'd say the jurys still out on both. 

 

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Introduced through the Supreme line: 

- One90 zero negative space concept

- Flexible tendon guard 

- Curv composite boot

- Comfort Edge

- Reflex tongue inserts

- Variable tendon guard stiffness inserts

Edited by Cavs019

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40 minutes ago, stick9 said:

Overall? CCM has only recently started making a legit product. True has been around for 2, 3 years? I'd say the jurys still out on both. 

 

I can agree with that. 

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1 hour ago, stick9 said:

Overall? CCM has only recently started making a legit product. True has been around for 2, 3 years? I'd say the jurys still out on both. 

 

 

I don't know if I agree with that. The Tacks in 2014 was the start of CCM making a mark in the skate department again. They were a solid skate all around. They've done something every year since to push the envelope, and deliver more features at the same price point vs. Bauer entries. I rip on CCM for their eyelets, but aside from that, their skate products are legit and have been for at least 5 or more years now.

 

Edited by colins

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5 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Maybe back in 1998...

Ever since the ONE90 15 years ago, Supreme has been Bauer’s technologically advanced skate, cycle after cycle. Vapor didn’t have to change much as it was always popular in terms of fit. 

Supreme had curv or it's predecessor for what 2 or 3 iterations before the vapor?  At least the one95 and one100

Edit: errr I guess totalone was the top end after the 95 

Edited by Wolfpack_1986

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3 hours ago, Wolfpack_1986 said:

Supreme had curv or it's predecessor for what 2 or 3 iterations before the vapor?  At least the one95 and one100

Edit: errr I guess totalone was the top end after the 95 

ONE95 was the first, when it was called ALIVE.

8 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

Introduced through the Supreme line: 

- One90 zero negative space concept

- Flexible tendon guard 

- Curv composite boot

- Comfort Edge

- Reflex tongue inserts

- Variable tendon guard stiffness inserts

It was the only Bauer skate line designed to enhance range of motion until this year.

9 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Wasn't the injected stability lacing system first in Vapor and then rolled out to Supreme? What about that silly Vapor 1x 2d gen tongue? 

Yes, but that was something they were going to do to all of their skates anyway - Vapor's cycle just turned out to be first.

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7 hours ago, colins said:

 

I don't know if I agree with that. The Tacks in 2014 was the start of CCM making a mark in the skate department again. They were a solid skate all around. They've done something every year since to push the envelope, and deliver more features at the same price point vs. Bauer entries. I rip on CCM for their eyelets, but aside from that, their skate products are legit and have been for at least 5 or more years now.

 

No, it wasn't.  The PM got fired over that skate. 

The RBZ was a very well-made skate, but the fit wasn't there yet.  Once they made the Jetspeed they nailed the traditional process, and then with the Super Tacks, with the composite process.

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1 hour ago, JR Boucicaut said:

No, it wasn't.  The PM got fired over that skate. 

The RBZ was a very well-made skate, but the fit wasn't there yet.  Once they made the Jetspeed they nailed the traditional process, and then with the Super Tacks, with the composite process.

 

My personal experience may be skewed by the fact that my oldest son owned and wore the RBZ and my youngest owned and wore the Tacks, and the RBZ's looked like trash after 1 season whereas the Tacks held up great.

colins

 

 

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On 8/17/2019 at 5:06 PM, raganblink said:

What's wrong with Curv? Its the gold standard in skates, still, 11 years later.

And between picking either Vapor or JetSpeed at the $900 or $600 level, I'd still go Vapor. I don't see 3 year old CCMs at all for that high-end U20/U18/U16 player, however I do still see Bauers. At the two year old level I still see some CCMs but they are in much worse shape than their Bauer counterpart and I've had a couple of kids buy 3 pairs of ST/FT1/AS1/FT2 now in the last 4 years. Not because they're out growing but because they aren't lasting for them. Conversely, I've had 1 person buy 3 pairs of 1S/1X/2SPro/2XPro in the last 4 years, and that's because they outgrew their 1S and their second pair of them got ran over by the SUV while it was drying so they bought 2S pros. 

 

For a durability stand-point, Bauer is still on top of the skate world. And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of what CCM is pushing out - but nothing beats CURV durability in hockey, yet.

Curv is not moldable is the biggest issue. 

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10 hours ago, colins said:

 

I don't know if I agree with that. The Tacks in 2014 was the start of CCM making a mark in the skate department again. They were a solid skate all around. They've done something every year since to push the envelope, and deliver more features at the same price point vs. Bauer entries. I rip on CCM for their eyelets, but aside from that, their skate products are legit and have been for at least 5 or more years now.

 

The eyelet thing is 100% a durability issue. 

If we look past that, we are left with a 5 year period where they made some good products. Bauer on the other hand has been the gold standard since the release of the One95 some 8 years (give or take) prior to CCM's resurgence.  

I'm not hating on CCM. I use a lot of their gear and I really like what they are doing with their skate lines. Just trying to be realistic. When it comes to True/VH. Well, all one has to do is read through the True thread here. There will be no shortage of complaints about rivets, tendon guards, liners and poor build quality. 

Edited by stick9

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On 8/22/2019 at 8:59 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

Maybe back in 1998...

Ever since the ONE90 15 years ago, Supreme has been Bauer’s technologically advanced skate, cycle after cycle. Vapor didn’t have to change much as it was always popular in terms of fit. 

 

I assume it’s mostly anecdotal, but do more people fit into Vapors? And, do Vapors tend to sell more than Supereme at a given price point? The idea of Bauer having to “push” Supremes while Vapors just sell on their own is surprising to me. (I also don’t know anything about retail sales.)

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1 hour ago, start_today said:

 

I assume it’s mostly anecdotal, but do more people fit into Vapors? And, do Vapors tend to sell more than Supereme at a given price point? The idea of Bauer having to “push” Supremes while Vapors just sell on their own is surprising to me. (I also don’t know anything about retail sales.)

According to the stats Bauer presented to us a booking time this year 55% of sales are Supreme, 40% are Vapor, and 5% are Nexus. As with any statistics, take them with a grain of salt because they don't share any of the actual specifics of the collected data such as the size of the sample set, age range, ability level, and such. 

Edited by Nicholas G

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1 hour ago, start_today said:

 

I assume it’s mostly anecdotal, but do more people fit into Vapors? And, do Vapors tend to sell more than Supereme at a given price point? The idea of Bauer having to “push” Supremes while Vapors just sell on their own is surprising to me. (I also don’t know anything about retail sales.)

 

39 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

According to the stats Bauer presented to us a booking time this year 55% of sales are Supreme, 40% are Vapor, and 5% are Nexus. As with any statistics, take them with a grain of salt because they don't share any of the actual specifics of the collected data such as the size of the sample set, age range, ability level, and such. 

According to a video Bauer did with Ice Warehouse, 50% of people fit in Supreme, 35% in Vapor, and 15% in Nexus which is interesting when looking at your sales numbers. Seems a lot of people should be wearing different lines than they currently do.

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4 minutes ago, CigarScott said:

 

According to a video Bauer did with Ice Warehouse, 50% of people fit in Supreme, 35% in Vapor, and 15% in Nexus which is interesting when looking at your sales numbers. Seems a lot of people should be wearing different lines than they currently do.

I know someone who went from Nexus to custom Vapor. Whatever the reason, someone fitted him wrong originally cos the Vapors are comfy. My first decent skates were fitted casually, no attempt to see which line was best. They were a size too big. 

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8 minutes ago, Leif said:

I know someone who went from Nexus to custom Vapor. Whatever the reason, someone fitted him wrong originally cos the Vapors are comfy. My first decent skates were fitted casually, no attempt to see which line was best. They were a size too big. 

There's a lot of big box and LHS that will try to shoehorn you (no pun intended) into whatever they have on hand versus special order you a skate plus people want instant gratification and want something then and there as well as not get stuck with a special order item that they can't return or can only get store credit for if it doesn't end up working for them.

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1 hour ago, CigarScott said:

 

According to a video Bauer did with Ice Warehouse, 50% of people fit in Supreme, 35% in Vapor, and 15% in Nexus which is interesting when looking at your sales numbers. Seems a lot of people should be wearing different lines than they currently do.

I would say their percentages on sales are more accurate than the number of people that fit in a given line. The two not lining up exactly isn’t surprising.

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