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xstartxtodayx

Blade pitch question - SB XS from LS Edge w/ Step

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So I've spent a while reading over old topics trying to get as much info as I can but finally decided to just ask specifically since I was just getting more confused.

I just picked up new skates, CCM Ribcor 78K with the Speedblade XS, coming from a pair of Vapor X700's with LS Edge and Step Blacksteels.  Right off the bat they're amazingly comfortable.  I skated in them for the first time last night in a beer league game (wish I could've done a few public skates/puck shoots but I live 45+ mins from the closest rink and puck shoots/open hockey are few and far between)... the boot felt great, it gave me the fwd flex I wanted and wasn't as high and stiff as my old Vapor X700's.  The biggest issue I had was the blades/holders... I felt more back in my heels in the CCM's than my Vapors, also it somehow felt like I had more blade out under my toes (same size holders, 263, but this could be because it was brand new steel I'm guessing combined with the more neutral pitch?).  I felt good going straight forward and backward once I got going but I couldn't make quick lateral movements stationary or while in motion and starting up I had to sort of concentrate more since it felt so different.

 So after reading everything I could find I figured I'd see if the shop can try to adjust the pitch of the blade forward a bit (and if that doesn't work maybe shims under the heel, then just swap a set of LS Edge holders if all else fails).  Are there any technical terms I should ask for when seeing if they can adjust the pitch?  And is this my best option to start with?  I was all ready to order new Stepsteel for these holders but now I'm going to wait since, in the end, there's a chance I may be swapping the LS Edge's back on.

Thanks in advance for any input.

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I went from 280 LS3 Edge (35/55 Cag), to 272 LS BlackSteel, to XS Step steel. I felt the significant backward lean the first few times. I had the blades profiled to Hudson V (or whatever it’s colloquially called) and get right back to normal. 

 

Id personally try a profile, or heel lifts before anything more drastic like a holder swap

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Plus 1 on trying a profile.  The fact that you felt okay skating north/south but had trouble going east/west sounds like adjusting from a shorter profile to a longer one.  I usually recommend skaters get at least 10-hours on new skates before making changes.  

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27 minutes ago, Buzz_LightBeer said:

I went from 280 LS3 Edge (35/55 Cag), to 272 LS BlackSteel, to XS Step steel. I felt the significant backward lean the first few times. I had the blades profiled to Hudson V (or whatever it’s colloquially called) and get right back to normal. 

 

Id personally try a profile, or heel lifts before anything more drastic like a holder swap

 

Thanks.  I have a feeling my local shop won't know wtf that is haha, they are more old school but do have a FBV machine that I have them use for me.  I'll see what they say but am also considering ordering some Step Blacksteel from here and having JR profile them.

17 minutes ago, mojo122 said:

Plus 1 on trying a profile.  The fact that you felt okay skating north/south but had trouble going east/west sounds like adjusting from a shorter profile to a longer one.  I usually recommend skaters get at least 10-hours on new skates before making changes.  

Thanks.  I was under the impression that the steel on the SB XS was a 10' radius, same as the Step Steel I was previously on, so aside from being new steel and my old blade having more grinded off front/back from sharpening I didn't expect much difference, or am I totally wrong there?

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Guess it all depends on how old the steel was and the expertise of the sharpener(s).  

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Howdy,

I think there's every reason to expect that your old steel had the toe and heel ground off, so that you were no longer on a standard 10' profile, given what you've described.

Pop the blades out of each, overlay them, and look?  If they're both still 10' radius, they should line up.  That's not going to tell you anything about pitch differences (since that involves the holder), but it would at least tell you if your old blades had essentially been re-profiled to something like a multiple radius by sharpeners taking off the toe and/or heel.

Mark
(who is very much not an expert, so you get what you pay for here.  🙂

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If your old steel has never been profiled, it's likely that as it aged, its radius has gotten smaller and you've gotten used to skating on a profile radius that's less, maybe even significantly less, than what the stock profile was.  

 

If this is the case, I'd hold off on changing anything until you've had a chance to feel things out more. It could be that after a few skates, you won't even notice anymore.

 

 

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Definitely try a profiling first since my first instinct was that your new holder was possibly the next size up. Before you profile though, give it like... 3-4 hours in the skates to see if you can adjust. I went from Mako's with the CXN holder (very forward pitched) to the new XS holder (fairly neutral, longer radius) and it was very odd feeling right out of the gate. However, I just kept at it and within about 4 hours in the boot, I was pretty used to it. If you give it sometime and still don't like it, then go for the profile.

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www.noicingsports.com can adjust the pitch if no one local can do it. You mail in the blades only. I've used them a number of times. They also can change the radius, do combination radius, flat-bottom V, Z-channel, change the ROH, Service is pretty fast.

 

From the sound of your skate experience description, you probably want a smaller radius in order to make tighter turns.

Edited by caveman27
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Thanks for all the input everyone.

I went to the shop yesterday to see if they could adjust the pitch or profile them and he looked at me like I had 3 heads, I then asked if he could at least grind off a bit from the front to rocker them a little more and he then told me the machine they use for that is broken, so yea I'm pretty sure I won't be going back there any time soon (JR's mail order sharpening service is looking really really good right about now).

I have another game tonight so I'll give them another shot, then this weekend I'm taking the kids to a public skate so I'll give them a little more time and hopefully just get used to them eventually.  I compared to my old skates and the steel on them isn't all that old but looks like it's been hacked pretty well by the shop that had been sharpening them (fronts and back really really rockered up).  I also put them flat on the counter to try to see if I could compare where the balance point was between new and old and the new skates def had longer steel towards the front and what stood out to me was the new skates seemed to have 1 balance point where as the old skates had 2... I could balance them neutral but then if I angled towards the toe ever so slightly I could balance again on another section which seemed odd (these started as standard step blacksteel blades with their standard profile).  I had planned on getting Step Blacksteel for these all along so maybe I'll look into having them profiled from the start.

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Howdy,

Yeah, all of that screams "time for mail order sharpening, Sparx, or ProSharp Home" to me.

Give the MSH profile project a go?

Mark

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6 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Yeah, all of that screams "time for mail order sharpening, Sparx, or ProSharp Home" to me.

Give the MSH profile project a go?

Mark

The profile project is very tempting, very very tempting.

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2 hours ago, xstartxtodayx said:

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I went to the shop yesterday to see if they could adjust the pitch or profile them and he looked at me like I had 3 heads, I then asked if he could at least grind off a bit from the front to rocker them a little more and he then told me the machine they use for that is broken, so yea I'm pretty sure I won't be going back there any time soon (JR's mail order sharpening service is looking really really good right about now).

I have another game tonight so I'll give them another shot, then this weekend I'm taking the kids to a public skate so I'll give them a little more time and hopefully just get used to them eventually.  I compared to my old skates and the steel on them isn't all that old but looks like it's been hacked pretty well by the shop that had been sharpening them (fronts and back really really rockered up).  I also put them flat on the counter to try to see if I could compare where the balance point was between new and old and the new skates def had longer steel towards the front and what stood out to me was the new skates seemed to have 1 balance point where as the old skates had 2... I could balance them neutral but then if I angled towards the toe ever so slightly I could balance again on another section which seemed odd (these started as standard step blacksteel blades with their standard profile).  I had planned on getting Step Blacksteel for these all along so maybe I'll look into having them profiled from the start.

Where are you located? 

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24 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Where are you located? 

Long Island, NY... eastern part where hockey is practically non existent (closet rink is 45+ mins which has the closest shop, most nights I drive over an hr to play).

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1 hour ago, xstartxtodayx said:

Long Island, NY... eastern part where hockey is practically non existent (closet rink is 45+ mins which has the closest shop, most nights I drive over an hr to play).

Have you talked to WeestSdie Skate? You might want to hit them up. 

http://westsideskate.com/

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On 7/12/2019 at 11:42 AM, Nicholas G said:

Have you talked to WeestSdie Skate? You might want to hit them up. 

http://westsideskate.com/

Is West Side still good? I thought I heard their "best" skate fitter is no longer there. I don't totally trust HM or Pure (no offense to them) to do my scan and fit me 100% into FT2 or 2X's and everybody on reddit in the NYC area always recommends them.

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On 7/12/2019 at 11:42 AM, Nicholas G said:

Have you talked to WeestSdie Skate? You might want to hit them up. 

http://westsideskate.com/

They're way too far for me, prob close to a 3 hour drive through some of the worst traffic around (and they're in Brooklyn, no one ever wants to go there unless you have no choice 😂).

I skated on them in another game and in a public skate and they're feeling much better already, definitely had to adjust to the longer steel hitting the ice and the more neutral pitch of the skate compared to my old one.  Last game felt 1000x better (it was on much better ice which prob also helped).  With all that said, I've bit the bullet and went ahead and ordered some Step Steel for them and am going to join the ProSharp Project to experiment with various profile options... skating on essentially the "standard" option for close to 30 years I'm excited to try some other profiles and see what I like best (I honestly never even tried a different hollow until a couple of yrs ago when I switched from the standard 1/2" to a 5/8", wow what a difference that made for me haha, now I'm on FBV 90/75 and love it, wish I knew about this stuff when I was younger).

Thanks all for the replies.

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8 hours ago, Shaine said:

Did you get your new steel? Keep us updated on the profiling.

Ordered but there was some recall issue with the Step Steel for the new XS holder so new steel won't be shipping for a few more weeks.  Currently I've adjusted a bit to the new steel but the biggest issue I'm having is the height compared to the Step Steel on my old skates, I've bottomed out a few times on sharp turns 🤕

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Some distributors had a version of the steel that was more in line with CCM's stock profile rather than Step's.  So they'll be back in stock in a couple of weeks.

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On 7/23/2019 at 11:14 AM, xstartxtodayx said:

Ordered but there was some recall issue with the Step Steel for the new XS holder so new steel won't be shipping for a few more weeks.  Currently I've adjusted a bit to the new steel but the biggest issue I'm having is the height compared to the Step Steel on my old skates, I've bottomed out a few times on sharp turns 🤕

Any news on ship date? I'm currently considering some XS Step Blacksteel as one of my options.

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On 7/23/2019 at 11:14 AM, xstartxtodayx said:

Ordered but there was some recall issue with the Step Steel for the new XS holder so new steel won't be shipping for a few more weeks.  Currently I've adjusted a bit to the new steel but the biggest issue I'm having is the height compared to the Step Steel on my old skates, I've bottomed out a few times on sharp turns 🤕

Got an update for us? I ended up ordering xs holders and step blacksteel. Probably gonna be a couple weeks before I get to skate on it.

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2 hours ago, Shaine said:

Got an update for us? I ended up ordering xs holders and step blacksteel. Probably gonna be a couple weeks before I get to skate on it.

Nothing yet, JR said mid-August so I'm figuring another week or two before they get out to resellers and then the public (me).

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3 hours ago, xstartxtodayx said:

Nothing yet, JR said mid-August so I'm figuring another week or two before they get out to resellers and then the public (me).

We just got our shipment in this week of Tydan DLC, STEP DLC, Byonic DLC, Flare DLC, and BladeTech Armour for the XS holder. 

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