VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[mc88 160]

I guess you decided not to read the line of the VH post that stated all of their materials costs are in USD. Just because a company is based and has its operations in one country, that does not guarantee that all of their costs would be in that country's currency.

"If the cost of importing/producing a material goes up, then the cost of the final product goes up as well." Standard practice among all things big and small.

If I own a small business in the US that buys British materials, and I sell my final products in USD for US consumers, I can't then turn around say international consumers (regardless of the location) will pay in British Pounds (GBP). I raise or lower my prices over time to adjust for inflation/deflation of that material cost.

Edited March 11, 2015 by mc88

[Hank_33 9]

By charging Canadian buyers a fixed price in CAD, yes, that is what is happening. But it would be a tough business decison for them to increase their CAD prices because the incomes of Canadian buyers don't fluctuate with the exchange rate. If the CAD exchange drops then Canadian businesses don't increase what they pay employees to make up for it.

I fully understand.

But, lets assume vh wouldn't export their skates and only sell them in canada. Now material prices go up. What choices do you have? Raise the price or make less/loose money. You wouldn't come to the idea for example to charge western canada a higher price to keep the price down for eastern canada. That's just ridiculous.

But that's exactly what they are doing, charging international customers more to keep the price for canadien customers down.

Anyway, I don't want to argue, anyone can decide for their own if they are ok with it or not. I'm not.

[chippa13 1844]

Not necessarily. They may feel that increasing the price in Canada would adversely impact demand. Essentially, they are taking a hit on Canadian sales while riding out the exchange variances.

[boo10 323]

I see no problem with the different pricing for US and CAD customers. The big guys do the same thing via MAP and shipping restrictions. As Canadians we are used to being charged more than our American counterparts for most goods. Why when the CAD $ was worth $1.10 USD, were we paying 20-30% more for electronics? Fair or not, it's how the market works.

[mc88 160]

What the company is doing is unethical. They haven't done it in the past and now that there's a currency difference, they're leveraging their selling power accordingly. I HIGHLY doubt that if the roles were reversed, where if 1 CAD = 1.27 USD that we (U.S. consumers) would still be paying USD prices. It just wouldn't happen. When comparing it to "the big guys," there's really no comparison. They MAP prices accordingly: Where products will be ordered, bought, replaced, warrantied, and sold WITHIN their respective countries. They also will have a presence within the country, for example, Easton US, Easton Canada, and Easton Europe. This way, a consumer nor a private company from a different country, can leverage their buying or selling/pricing power across borders. Yet... that's exactly what's happening here: A Canadian-only based company leveraging their prices across borders without having any presence within the country. In other words, if they had a store front within the U.S. that offered: Orders, replacements, warranties, and purchases, then absolutely... charge in USD. Else, it's blatant PRICE GOUGING - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available.

I fully support VH's hockey skates, but I do not support the company behind the product. It's a damn shame they decided to pursue a business model that a small business, with zero presence outside of Canada, shouldn't be doing.

Edited March 12, 2015 by mc88

[shooter27 116]

I agree that VH is too small to be worrying about currency hedging. Given the generally accepted business practices, the normal thing to do for VH would be to price the skates based off the currency of their materials costs, in this case USD and charge everyone in the same currency. If they were to simply do this, then the complaints being voiced here would be moot. The CAD price wouldn't change but it would effectively be increased with the change in exchange rate. As they said, they charge overseas customers USD as well, so the normal practice would be to charge Canadian customers USD. For whatever reason, they have chosen to alter their business practices for the Canadian market to keep the price consistent in CAD. Is the price gouging against US and International customers? Not really, it would be more accurate to say it's price discounting for Canadian customers. It also penalizes the company by cutting into its margin on Canadian sales. Being a Canadian company I can see why they would want to keep the CAD price consistent, but by treating Canada different then the rest of the world by charging them CAD instead of USD, they have opened themselves up to the type of criticism here. If they're I willing to take a lower margin on their Canadian business, that's their perogative, but it does risk alienating non-Canadian customers.

Edited March 12, 2015 by shooter27

[chippa13 1844]

"These go to 11....."

[Larry54 243]

What the company is doing is unethical. They haven't done it in the past and now that there's a currency difference, they're leveraging their selling power accordingly. I HIGHLY doubt that if the roles were reversed, where if 1 CAD = 1.27 USD that we (U.S. consumers) would still be paying USD prices. It just wouldn't happen. When comparing it to "the big guys," there's really no comparison. They MAP prices accordingly: Where products will be ordered, bought, replaced, warrantied, and sold WITHIN their respective countries. They also will have a presence within the country, for example, Easton US, Easton Canada, and Easton Europe. This way, a consumer nor a private company from a different country, can leverage their buying or selling/pricing power across borders. Yet... that's exactly what's happening here: A Canadian-only based company leveraging their prices across borders without having any presence within the country. In other words, if they had a store front within the U.S. that offered: Orders, replacements, warranties, and purchases, then absolutely... charge in USD. Else, it's blatant PRICE GOUGING - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available.

I fully support VH's hockey skates, but I do not support the company behind the product. It's a damn shame they decided to pursue a business model that a small business, with zero presence outside of Canada, shouldn't be doing.

They have authorized dealers in Georgia, Colorado, and Michigan. They also have authorized dealers in Germany, Switzerland, and Japan.

Authorized VH dealers

Feel better now?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Larry54

[mc88 160]

They have authorized dealers in Georgia, Colorado, and Michigan. They also have authorized dealers in Germany, Switzerland, and Japan.

Authorized VH dealers

Feel better now?

Partially. From the limited information available, it seems like they only offer a measurement service and nothing else (doesn't state whether orders/purchases, replacements, and warranties are handled THROUGH the dealer or directly with VH). I'm more interested in authorized retailers/resellers that handle the order (take the money, give you a receipt, then turn around and fulfill the order) and have physical product on a shelf (even if it's just a generic VH boot). Similar to the way Icewarehouse represents Warrior, where they have physical Warrior products on hand, but they also take custom Warrior orders. They take your money, give you a receipt, then fulfill the order. In other words, if the order doesn't come out right, it's up to the retailer/reseller to see it fixed (and not at the consumer's expense).

Edited March 12, 2015 by mc88

[AfftonDad 88]

I agree that VH is too small to be worrying about currency hedging. Given the generally accepted business practices, the normal thing to do for VH would be to price the skates based off the currency of their materials costs, in this case USD and charge everyone in the same currency. If they were to simply do this, then the complaints being voiced here would be moot. The CAD price wouldn't change but it would effectively be increased with the change in exchange rate. As they said, they charge overseas customers USD as well, so the normal practice would be to charge Canadian customers USD. For whatever reason, they have chosen to alter their business practices for the Canadian market to keep the price consistent in CAD. Is the price gouging against US and International customers? Not really, it would be more accurate to say it's price discounting for Canadian customers. It also penalizes the company by cutting into its margin on Canadian sales. Being a Canadian company I can see why they would want to keep the CAD price consistent, but by treating Canada different then the rest of the world by charging them CAD instead of USD, they have opened themselves up to the type of criticism here. If they're I willing to take a lower margin on their Canadian business, that's their perogative, but it does risk alienating non-Canadian customers.

I am but a simple caveman, unfamiliar with your words of currency hedging. But when I ordered mine I'm pretty sure they were listed in CAD and when I was charged it was converted to the equivalent in US dollars. I distinctly remember using google's currency conversion to figure out what I would be paying. I didn't have any problem doing that. I think they should stick with a single country's currency until they get big enough to have big enough margins to ride out the currency fluctuations. I have always planned on buying another pair when mine are used up, but I won't be if they are charging me $150 (in US dollars) more than they are charging someone else. It's not that I wouldn't pay $150 more for them. I probably would if everyone was, I just wouldn't want to feel like I was being cheated for being a member of a "class" that was singled out to pay $150 more than some other "class."

Edited March 12, 2015 by AfftonDad

[flyers10 57]

People buy cars, appliances, airline tickets, hotel rooms, meals, etc every day for a different price than their neighbor, buddy, teammate, aunt & uncle and no one seems to stop buying those things even though you could say everyone that paid even 1 penny more than the lowest sold price got "cheated". Focus on did the item at the price offered provide the value you were looking for to be satisified. I'm willing to pay more for convenience, quality, service, support, timeframe, etc, etc. If these skates fit you best or you think they would, then any extra amount spent (if any at all) would be worth it. If not, then deal with a painful skate or pinch pennies and buy a $299 skate or clearance model online and hope it fits well (and when you buy it with a 15% off coupon and a week later your buddy got it with a 20% off coupon don't feel cheated).

[Larry54 243]

I am but a simple caveman, unfamiliar with your words of currency hedging. But when I ordered mine I'm pretty sure they were listed in CAD and when I was charged it was converted to the equivalent in US dollars. I distinctly remember using google's currency conversion to figure out what I would be paying. I didn't have any problem doing that. I think they should stick with a single country's currency until they get big enough to have big enough margins to ride out the currency fluctuations. I have always planned on buying another pair when mine are used up, but I won't be if they are charging me $150 (in US dollars) more than they are charging someone else. It's not that I wouldn't pay $150 more for them. I probably would if everyone was, I just wouldn't want to feel like I was being cheated for being a member of a "class" that was singled out to pay $150 more than some other "class."

That's how hockey gear has been in Canada as long as I can remember. Even when the dollar was at parity, Canadians still payed over 20% more than Americans even for articles made in Canada. Just wait a bit and if you're lucky the US dollar will come back down, and you'll feel better about paying the same price you're paying now for VH skates.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Larry54

[shooter27 116]

I am but a simple caveman, unfamiliar with your words of currency hedging. But when I ordered mine I'm pretty sure they were listed in CAD and when I was charged it was converted to the equivalent in US dollars. I distinctly remember using google's currency conversion to figure out what I would be paying. I didn't have any problem doing that. I think they should stick with a single country's currency until they get big enough to have big enough margins to ride out the currency fluctuations. I have always planned on buying another pair when mine are used up, but I won't be if they are charging me $150 (in US dollars) more than they are charging someone else. It's not that I wouldn't pay $150 more for them. I probably would if everyone was, I just wouldn't want to feel like I was being cheated for being a member of a "class" that was singled out to pay $150 more than some other "class."

If you were quoted CAD and charged a different price in USD, that doesn't jibe with the explanation Garth posted stating they originally charged $900 in both USD and CAD because the currencies were roughly at par and the current issue is more an extension of maintaining the same policy and not of charging US customers more. If they in fact previously charged US customers CAD and then converted it to USD (or had PayPal do it) then the current situation would be a change of business practice. However, the true effect is still more one of giving the Canadian customer a discount (by charging them 900 CAD) then it is increasing the price to the US customer and price gouging. I'm not commenting on "right" or "wrong" I just don't believe it's fair to say they're price gouging by keeping the USD price constant. If anything I would criticize them for not raising the CAD price to account for the exchange fluctuation and sacrificing margin. I don't think it would be appropriate for them to price in CAD for US customers (or charge a lower price in USD) since they price everywhere in the world outside of Canada in USD. The prudent thing in my opinion would be to charge Canadian customers in USD as well (which effectively raises the CAD price). That would be the best way for them to ensure they are treating all their customers equally. The current situation doesn't single out the US customer and disadvantage them, it singles out the Canadian customer and gives them an advantage.

[Hank_33 9]

If they in fact previously charged US customers CAD and then converted it to USD (or had PayPal do it) then the current situation would be a change of business practice.

That's exactly what they did, look at the previuos page mc88 posted a paypal receipt. They charged CAD and now they suddenly charge USD

However, the true effect is still more one of giving the Canadian customer a discount (by charging them 900 CAD) then it is increasing the price to the US customer and price gouging.

...

The current situation doesn't single out the US customer and disadvantage them, it singles out the Canadian customer and gives them an advantage.

You could see it that way and it may effectivley look like a discount for the canadian customer, but imo it is not, because they always paid 900CAD, nothing changed there. what they do is taking a cut in their profit margin in canada and making up for it by increasing their profit for skates sold internationally by changing them to 900USD. So basically international customers subsidize canadian customers by paying more. That means imo the international customers are indeed disadvantaged.

The prudent thing in my opinion would be to charge Canadian customers in USD as well (which effectively raises the CAD price). That would be the best way for them to ensure they are treating all their customers equally.

I agree, if you change the currency, do it for all, not only for some

I was really interested in buying a pair, but I'm not gonna pay more because I don't live in canada

[GiancarloSFL 15]

I understand everyone's point on the exchange rate any the fluctuations but one thing I must say having the skates over a year and a half, skating 3 to 5 times a week. Is that VH skates and company do provide very very good customer service.I can't tell you how many times I email scott and he got right back to me. Always willing to help out any way he could. I've used all the big guys CCM Bauer Easton and can say I never got that type of service from them. I'd that worth a bit more..... to me yes.

[laserrobottime 148]

This topic is getting embarrassing. If you're not willing to pay for the skates, don't buy them. If you are, buy them! In either case, your opinions are your own and can stay that way.

Stop attempting to crucify the owners of a small, hand-made skate company because you disagree with their pricing structure.

[chippa13 1844]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0LEVjWsqwFVyJEA56QnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTB0dmRibmhwBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwMV8x?p=these+go+to+11&tnr=21&vid=FD8971D929BAE16AB044FD8971D929BAE16AB044&l=55&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DUN.608014889680634384%26pid%3D15.1&sigi=11r0sim65&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKOO5S4vxi0o&sigr=11bihb59i&tt=b&tit=These+go+to+11.mpg&sigt=10igludin&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Dthese%2Bgo%2Bto%2B11%26ei%3DUTF-8%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla&sigb=12q7smdi2&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

[boo10 323]

I am but a simple caveman, unfamiliar with your words of currency hedging. But when I ordered mine I'm pretty sure they were listed in CAD and when I was charged it was converted to the equivalent in US dollars. I distinctly remember using google's currency conversion to figure out what I would be paying. I didn't have any problem doing that. I think they should stick with a single country's currency until they get big enough to have big enough margins to ride out the currency fluctuations. I have always planned on buying another pair when mine are used up, but I won't be if they are charging me $150 (in US dollars) more than they are charging someone else. It's not that I wouldn't pay $150 more for them. I probably would if everyone was, I just wouldn't want to feel like I was being cheated for being a member of a "class" that was singled out to pay $150 more than some other "class."

Can't say for certain, but I suspect that it wasn't VH that converted the currency on your purchase. More than likely, you used a credit card issued by a US bank to pay for your purchase and it was your bank that converted the purchase to your "Home" currency and built in their own little foreign exchange margin. This is exactly what happens when I use my Canadian credit card or PayPal account to make a USD purchase. If your invoice from VH is in USD, then I respectfully withdraw my remarks.

[Larry54 243]

When VH Hockey skates came out 2 years ago. the Canadian dollar reached 99.8 cents US, almost parity, so Americans are paying around the same now in US dollars as they were when the skates came out, but US shipping is now free. Canadians are also paying the same now as when the skates came out 2 years ago, but Canadians still pay shipping. So what the f*** is everyone crying about... that Canadians are not paying even more? It looks like VH is trying to give everyone an equal opportunity to buy their skates, as opposed to the perceived "price gouging" that the big hockey companies do to Canadians because the market can bear it.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Larry54

[AfftonDad 88]

Can't say for certain, but I suspect that it wasn't VH that converted the currency on your purchase. More than likely, you used a credit card issued by a US bank to pay for your purchase and it was your bank that converted the purchase to your "Home" currency and built in their own little foreign exchange margin. This is exactly what happens when I use my Canadian credit card or PayPal account to make a USD purchase. If your invoice from VH is in USD, then I respectfully withdraw my remarks.

Right. It was paypal that did the conversion. The point is that the price was quoted in CAD ($800 CAD for boots + $110 CAD for holders + $35 CAD for shipping = $945 CAD), but I paid the converted equivalent in USD ($892.49 USD on that day). Today, $945 CAD would be $751.77 USD. They could have made it $945 USD (then OR now) and I still would have paid it. I just think that the only difference in price (CURRENTLY... since they don't have separate US sales/marketing channels, EU sales/marketing channels, Russian sales/marketing channels, etc), should be the difference in shipping, taxes, tariffs, etc.

Ok... so they used to be pegged to CAD and now they are pegged to USD. That just increased the cost to US (and international customers) but that's OK, prices go up. Furthermore, it sounds like they NOW have a US/International price of $900 USD and a Canadian price of $900 CAD. I'm even OK with that. It's just the price shouldn't move back and forth between currencies depending upon the exchange rate that week. I suspect this was a one time shift in their business practices and won't happen again. I'll probably buy another pair when mine are done (I may try to get a friend in Canada to buy them for me though!). However, if it does happen again it will probably make me think twice about buying them again.

[Larry54 243]

In hindsight, they would have been better off charging US customers in US dollars from the start 2 years ago when the dollars were at parity. Then they wouldn't have to give free shipping today to appease the disgruntled.

[fcalog 58]

Right. It was paypal that did the conversion. The point is that the price was quoted in CAD ($800 CAD for boots + $110 CAD for holders + $35 CAD for shipping = $945 CAD), but I paid the converted equivalent in USD ($892.49 USD on that day). Today, $945 CAD would be $751.77 USD. They could have made it $945 USD (then OR now) and I still would have paid it. I just think that the only difference in price (CURRENTLY... since they don't have separate US sales/marketing channels, EU sales/marketing channels, Russian sales/marketing channels, etc), should be the difference in shipping, taxes, tariffs, etc.

Ok... so they used to be pegged to CAD and now they are pegged to USD. That just increased the cost to US (and international customers) but that's OK, prices go up. Furthermore, it sounds like they NOW have a US/International price of $900 USD and a Canadian price of $900 CAD. I'm even OK with that. It's just the price shouldn't move back and forth between currencies depending upon the exchange rate that week. I suspect this was a one time shift in their business practices and won't happen again. I'll probably buy another pair when mine are done (I may try to get a friend in Canada to buy them for me though!). However, if it does happen again it will probably make me think twice about buying them again.

Remember the the 900CDN does not include Federal GST and provincial sales tax (12-15% in total,depending on the province) and shipping costs.....difference would be probably less than 75 dollars; then getting them to you.....

[jgp799 2]

Wheeler's been in Bauer since coming back from his leg injury.

Scheifele has also switched back to Bauer as well. Both had been wearing VH for quite some, I believe. Wonder what caused them to switch?

[decoy 164]

Ryan Murray

[DRW1319 3]

Any chance you've posted that video? I need to replace both of mine.

I replaced my broken left VH tendon guard this weekend and took video of the process.

I'll edit it and post a link to it when I get a chance.

Very easy to replace, and the new one looks/feels great.