Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[Ivan 1]

I can also say this to those of you that feel the need to resharpen more regularly with FBV, try using a stone on the edge first. Last week I felt I needed to sharpen and simply ran a stone to freshen the edge and they felt like new.

Same thing I mentioned a week ago. Made a big difference for me as well. I held off putting the spare FBV-cut steel in for now after just using a stone. Before the stone I ran my fingernail down towards the bottom of each blade and could feel a small 'lip'. A couple easy passes with an Arkansas stone and it was gone. Didn't lose an edge at all after that. I plan to go into my 3rd game with them like this and evaluate afterwards. Not sure if I can make it through the next 3 or 4 weeks without changing them out, but I'd like to try it if possible.

And here is where the Miracle Stone kicks in (at least in my case). Works great with water.

[cbart 1]

Some guys run their house, some guys run around their house, I run my house........hahaha

How about a couple lawn chairs and an X01?

I never siad the 90/75 had more glide, I did say I could not discern a difference between the 90/75 and 100/50.

I can also say this to those of you that feel the need to resharpen more regularly with FBV, try using a stone on the edge first. Last week I felt I needed to sharpen and simply ran a stone to freshen the edge and they felt like new.

The trade off is I get to skate 5 times a week!

Edited March 31, 2009 by cbart

[mnpucker 33]

You call that skating? I am on 3 times a week 2 hours coaching plus 1 hour playing. I was kidding the pontoon furniture was the way to go.

[Too Old 1]

I went to a local Scheel's sporting goods store and bought a couple (one for home; one for the gear bag) Arkansas stones from the knife department and a bottle of Lansky honing oil. Worked like a charm.

[Spreedizzle 1]

Just ordered today the 100/50 to complement my current 90/75 and 5/8 on my X01. :)

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I went to a local Scheel's sporting goods store and bought a couple (one for home; one for the gear bag) Arkansas stones from the knife department and a bottle of Lansky honing oil. Worked like a charm.

I can also say this to those of you that feel the need to resharpen more regularly with FBV, try using a stone on the edge first. Last week I felt I needed to sharpen and simply ran a stone to freshen the edge and they felt like new.

Same thing I mentioned a week ago. Made a big difference for me as well. I held off putting the spare FBV-cut steel in for now after just using a stone. Before the stone I ran my fingernail down towards the bottom of each blade and could feel a small 'lip'. A couple easy passes with an Arkansas stone and it was gone. Didn't lose an edge at all after that. I plan to go into my 3rd game with them like this and evaluate afterwards. Not sure if I can make it through the next 3 or 4 weeks without changing them out, but I'd like to try it if possible.

And here is where the Miracle Stone kicks in (at least in my case). Works great with water.

Same thing. :)

[TBLfan 25]

The Miracle Stone is the only reason I'm able to make two sets of runners last from late Jan to now... Well that and not backchecking.

[Hockeyman11385 1]

Not backchecking makes everything better.

[cbart 1]

You call that skating? I am on 3 times a week 2 hours coaching plus 1 hour playing. I was kidding the pontoon furniture was the way to go.

I don't count Roseville as a session!

[AHF 1]

all the words and no picture. Got one now, not the greatest.

Thanks for the picture.

All this time, I was thinking that the 'V' was a lot more pronounced than that.

From what I had envisioned, I assumed that going from an FBV sharpening to a 'regular' sharpening would waste a lot of steel, but that doesn't seem to be the case, after seeing what the FBV looks like...

[Jordan 13]

Since FBV is not as deep, you could argue that there is less steel ground away with each sharpening. Of course if have a deep nick, you have a deep nick... regardless of the type of sharpening.

[Ahriman 1]

all the words and no picture. Got one now, not the greatest.

Thanks for the picture.

All this time, I was thinking that the 'V' was a lot more pronounced than that.

From what I had envisioned, I assumed that going from an FBV sharpening to a 'regular' sharpening would waste a lot of steel, but that doesn't seem to be the case, after seeing what the FBV looks like...

The V comes from the shape of the cut if they didn't flatten it out. If they did have a real "V" cut to it, the hollow would be deeper and not have the "more glide" effect of having more steel on the ice. You can see from the flatbottomv.com diagram where the lines for the V come from but aren't made. :)

[epstud74 24]

You call that skating? I am on 3 times a week 2 hours coaching plus 1 hour playing. I was kidding the pontoon furniture was the way to go.

I don't count Roseville as a session!

I will never play Roseville

[goodguy 7]

Ok, so flat botton V is most likely the best thing to come along in a while but there are two issues that are keeping me from jumping on board.

1) Availability of FBV shops: Unfortunately FBV shops are few and far between. Should I have my kids at a tourney in an area without FBV, then I am SOL and would have to go back to regular hollow. Wouldn't want to get my kid "conditioned" to skate on FBV then have to switch in a pinch back to regular hollow during a critical time (between games). Multiple blade sets are an option but that would entail higher costs and swapping out which is not possible on short notice (between games, etc). Maybe with the something like the Graf holders and torx screws it could be done with within about 20 minutes but since there is nothing like FBV T-Blades, then it would be next to imposible to switch them to make it a practical option.

2) Quality of FBV sharpening: From my impression (I may be wrong), the FBV sharpening requires a VERY (capital VERY) accurate setup to ensure the flat portion is exactly in the middle of the blade. Otherwise your edges would not be equal and would be ineffective. Maybe not your favorite FBV shop - but many shops have undertrained staff who can barely get regular sharpenings right. So the incidence of bad sharpenings would be greater unless there was a physical (machine setup) way to ensure a correct FBV sharpening. Seems to be, there is less room for error in FBV than in regular sharpenings - is that true?

I am very impressed with the promise of FBV but having kids who are always on the ice (getting frequent sharpenings) I see two possible solutions to the issues above:

1) Buy a personal machine X01, X02 which aint cheap (and I wuold have to be at every tourney for each kid to be able to resharpen - wife would love not having to drive to Toronto a few times a season but I would have to be in thre places at once).

2) Blackstone should have TBlade license versions of FBV runner. I know the T Blade is contraversial but I have had success with it for one of my players and having a FBV runner option would be the easiest solution for someone not wanting to buy a machine. Probably never happen though due to the reduction in TBlade use.

Just some thoughts. I would love to go FBV across the board but would have to solve some availability issues first (at least in my case).

Edited April 2, 2009 by goodguy

[TBLfan 25]

20 mins? It takes me 5 mins to change my runners. I have LS2 holders.

Misaligned edges on a regular hollow is basically the same as with FBV.

Edited April 2, 2009 by TBLfan

[Hockeyman11385 1]

+1

Once you get the hang of switching out runners it takes no time at all. You could easily do it between periods if you had to (during the Zamboni time).

[goodguy 7]

+1

Once you get the hang of switching out runners it takes no time at all. You could easily do it between periods if you had to (during the Zamboni time).

Maybe I will give it a try and see. I have never tried really.

Maybe time to learn someting new. Swapping runners.

Thanks for the info.

[Hockeyman11385 1]

No problem. The only tip I have is to make sure that you have the right tools. Trying to do it without will be an exercise in frustration. What kind of skates are you going to be working with?

[Too Old 1]

Probably could swap mine out in a minute too. Only takes a flat screwdriver and out they come on my G3's. Very simple to do.

[goodguy 7]

No problem. The only tip I have is to make sure that you have the right tools. Trying to do it without will be an exercise in frustration. What kind of skates are you going to be working with?

Unfortunately, my kid has the Graf PRO3000 holders (whichI dont think the blade comes out of?) so, in that case, it would necessitate a complete holder change (I think).

Maybe I could switch to a better holder, blade design (can you recommend some which are performance but affordable) and easy to swap out?

One of my kids uses TBlades and they have worked out well but are increasingly hard to find and maybe not the ideal situation anymore considering the lack of support in the market for them.

There are good and bad points to them and I guess it comes down to market acceptance.

My other kids use regular steel and think they could benefit from the FBV. Unfortunately, I tried FBV 90/75 in the middle of the season and the kid I tried it on was falling more than usual during a game. I switched right back to regular 1/2" hollow as he blamed FBV and was pissed at me for "messing with his skates". Summer is a better time to do this I think but I am still fearful that it is messing with his system that he has gotten used to. Perhaps it is better to wait until thay are older and can weather some hiccups in getting the process right (changing FBV's to get the right spec, etc).

Currently, I have to drive 1/2 hour to get FBV done - pay $8 for the sharpening - and then hope it is right. if it isn't, have to redo with another setup. Might just be too much for me right now.

I wish there was an easier way to take advantage of FBV without spending so much time and $$ to get it right. And if I do spend the time and $$, I have just created another maintenance point for myself as I know my wife will not go out of her way to get FBV if I am not available (especially if it is at a tourney, etc).

So maybe I am not the best fit at this point but I would like some ideas on the holders, runners you are using, etc. It can't be as complex as I am making it out to be.

Thanks.

The ultimate solution for me would to be to just buy a X01 but it is a bit too much cash outlay right now.

Edited April 6, 2009 by goodguy

[sarmalidu 1]

I just went to the only dealer in the area that I know of that does flat-bottom V sharpening.

Normally I just get the standard sharpen (most places that's 1/2" hollow). The guys at Dave's SportShop in Fridley MN put what I believe was a 90/75 FBV hollow.

There was really no adjustment. I didn't notice any huge difference between this and my last sharpening. The sharpen definitely felt good and I was skating well. I am not really sure if I was that much faster but I did like the overall feel with this sharpening. I think I will continue to get my skates sharpened this way in the future - my guess is that this will get more and more popular.

Edited April 8, 2009 by sarmalidu

[jcp2 2]

Just tried 100/50 coming from 90/75. I liked both of them, but 100/50 helped me out with the stops and transitions more. Although it's more troublesome and expensive to get the sharpening done (I mail them out), it's ten times better than getting a new pair of skates. Unfortunately, all I really do is play informal pickup with a group of friends, so it's not anybody aside from myself has noticed any change.

[Ahriman 1]

I just went to the only dealer in the area that I know of that does flat-bottom V sharpening.

Normally I just get the standard sharpen (most places that's 1/2" hollow). The guys at Dave's SportShop in Fridley MN put what I believe was a 90/75 FBV hollow.

There was really no adjustment. I didn't notice any huge difference between this and my last sharpening. The sharpen definitely felt good and I was skating well. I am not really sure if I was that much faster but I did like the overall feel with this sharpening. I think I will continue to get my skates sharpened this way in the future - my guess is that this will get more and more popular.

Lemme know when Dave gets the 100/50. :) I tried both the 90/75 and 100/75 and neither was for me. 90 was too slippery, 100 had none of the extra glide FVB is suppose to give.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

So I had to go to a conventional sharpening last night - been having some holder isues with my X02 (which Blackstone is taking care of, always A+ for service) and so I got off the ice and went into the shop and sharpened it to my old 3/4" ROH.

It seriously felt like I was skating in mud.

Feet felt glued to the ice, legs were straining.

Then got a concussion. Yay.

[TBLfan 25]

I had a feeling that's what it would be like going back after getting used to FBV.

Concussions suck, I do not recommend them. :(