Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Lashes are outdated, you have plenty of grinders, put his face to it!

[SAK 2]

We can take that into account. However which wheel should we use?

[furlanitalia 1]

I'm gonna guess not the ruby one as it sounds too fine.

[Chadd 916]

A simple flogging with a cross grind dresser should be sufficient

[SAK 2]

We will take a vote at the office. I will post it up however I am open to more suggestions.

A simple flogging with a cross grind dresser should be sufficient

[winterhawk17 0]

Purchased xo1 back in December. Personally enjoying the learning curve as new to sharpening skates. Currently only do mine and my 6 year olds skates but recently did my brothers pair. His usual profile is 100/50 at a LHS. In getting feedback from him his comment to me was he thought I did the wrong profile as they felt different (slippier) then when done at the LHS. I'am assuming that this is more due to my rookie skills rather then differences in models....

[flashyprince 0]

Okay, so im in the market for a personal sharpener. (Strictly personal, im not gonna sharpen skates for anybody else...except maybe a few times for friends once in a while) I'm a hardcore hockey player but im also a hardcore newbie when it comes to sharpening. I have a few questions.

1- i'm very interested in the FBV technology (obviously) and im wondering if, from a personal use standpoint, the X-01//X-02 series will do as good of a job as the $2000-6000 heavier machines that Blackstone or Blademaster are selling for the "skate shop" market. Meaning; are these machines 5 times more expensive simply because they can handle way more volume? (i.e. is the quality of a single sharpening still the same?) Would an NHL player use an X-series?

2-Once we bought the sharpener itself, how often or how many accessory-type stuff do we have to buy? How costly would those add up to if im looking at 60 sharpenings per year?

3-im thinking of buying an X-02 in a few months. Do any of you have any information as to when or if Blackstone will upgrade their X-series? i wouldnt like to buy an X-02 this summer knowing that Blackstone is coming up with their X-03 in the fall or winter.

Thanks!

Edited April 17, 2010 by flashyprince

[Chadd 916]

2-Once we bought the sharpener itself, how often or how many accessory-type stuff do we have to buy? How costly would those add up to if im looking at 60 sharpenings per year?

I've had my X02 for 18 months and I'm just about ready to start using my second wheel. I haven't counted, but I know I am well north of 100 pair on the first wheel and set of spinners.

[jimmy 194]

Tagging on to what Chadd said, for low volume like yourself, you won't go through much in a year. However, if you are going to want every FBV spinner, that can tack a lot on to initial price.

[SolarWind 23]

Ok - it's been a while since I posted in this thread, so apologies if it's been recently discussed

I've been on it for 1.5 years now, but was thinking of going back & giving regular sharpening a try again for one simple reason: even regular but sharp blades are better then dull FBV

FBV still isn't widely available + is twice the price of regular sharpening, so I ended up sharpening once in a blue moon (untill I start blowing tires & spilling basically), but it's not that fun

Also anecdotally it sounds like FBV hasn't been that popular after all - for instance quite a few local shops after much research didn't go down that path simply because there was no interest for it. Even people who tried switched back etc

so what gives? Thoughts?

Are there any stats available as far as adoption of FBV in the NHL?

[Chadd 916]

Ok - it's been a while since I posted in this thread, so apologies if it's been recently discussed

I've been on it for 1.5 years now, but was thinking of going back & giving regular sharpening a try again for one simple reason: even regular but sharp blades are better then dull FBV

FBV still isn't widely available + is twice the price of regular sharpening, so I ended up sharpening once in a blue moon (untill I start blowing tires & spilling basically), but it's not that fun

Also anecdotally it sounds like FBV hasn't been that popular after all - for instance quite a few local shops after much research didn't go down that path simply because there was no interest for it. Even people who tried switched back etc

so what gives? Thoughts?

Are there any stats available as far as adoption of FBV in the NHL?

I don't know anyone locally that has gone back, and I have had a number of guys ask me for "that new sharpening thing". Last I heard most NHL teams had made it available to their players, very few have not.

[$m0k3 0]

Ive been using FVB since i got my skates a year ago at 90/75 but travelling to the hockey shop is kind of a task, so im looking at other options.

Talked to another LHS and they said alot of guys that have FVB get a 5/8 hollow that is quite similar, so they kind of use it as a touch up so they don't have to get FVB every time.

Does this sound right or is it not really the same?

[SolarWind 23]

I don't know anyone locally that has gone back, and I have had a number of guys ask me for "that new sharpening thing". Last I heard most NHL teams had made it available to their players, very few have not.

thanks Chad

I like FBV, but wish it's availability was wider...

how does it compare to BladeMaster's FBD?

http://www.blademaster.ca/pdfs/BFDFlatBottom.pdf

[Chadd 916]

Talked to another LHS and they said alot of guys that have FVB get a 5/8 hollow that is quite similar, so they kind of use it as a touch up so they don't have to get FVB every time.

Does this sound right or is it not really the same?

90/75 is fairly similar to 5/8 but the difference is very noticeable to me. I can't imagine going back and forth all the time, it seems kinda pointless. Pick one and use it.

[$m0k3 0]

90/75 is fairly similar to 5/8 but the difference is very noticeable to me. I can't imagine going back and forth all the time, it seems kinda pointless. Pick one and use it.

Chadd can you clarify some of the difference?

Growing up i used use 3/4 and get them sharpened about every 4-5 times, now with FBV i go around 8-10 times. I don't know if it was the new skates or what but i loved the speed of the FBV, which im most concerned about. I don't feel like i sacraficed any grip going to FBV, well any extra grip i needed anyways.

Basically do you think i would sacrifice any speed going from 90/75 to 5/8?

[Chadd 916]

Basically do you think i would sacrifice any speed going from 90/75 to 5/8?

Yes, that is the whole point of the FBV. More straight line speed while retaining the grip of a standard hollow.

[$m0k3 0]

K thanks, thats what i figured which is why i wanted to go to FBV in the first place.

I actually tried BFD before too, and i noticed i liked the FBV alot more. So i imagine going to a 5/8 hollow would make no sense?

[Ivan 1]

You got that right.

NONE of my customer went back to traditional hollow (ROH). Been doing it for over 1.5 years now. All seem to like the combination Step Steel/FBV even better

Edited April 23, 2010 by Ivan

[$m0k3 0]

K screw it i just got 90/75 and im going to stay with it.

[SolarWind 23]

somehow I alway thought that 5/8 is 100/50 - not 90/75? at least this is what the transition was for me...

also I was thinking, and I don't really understand this picture:

conceptually it might have something to do with the angle of the edges, but still how can 100/50 have more bite if it's so shallow when comparing with 90/75 that is much deeper, also 90/75 seems to have sharper angles too?!

Edited April 24, 2010 by SolarWind

[vek 0]

Well, I'm back on regular ROH. Never could resolve the stability issues with the FBV, and never could seem to get a consistent feeling sharpening. For whatever reason, I'm a far better player on 5/8ths.

[furlanitalia 1]

conceptually it might have something to do with the angle of the edges, but still how can 100/50 have more bite if it's so shallow when comparing with 90/75 that is much deeper, also 90/75 seems to have sharper angles too?!

90/75 will have more bite then 100/50. Think of it like this

90 is less glide, 100 is more

50 is less bite, 75 is more.

You can mix the numbers around to find out what works beat for you. Some players want the bit of 75 but the glide of 90.

Hope that helps, probably not the best description

[CAmmon 2]

I thought it was

90 less bite - 100 more bite

75 less glide - 50 more glide

Thats how it looks through the pictures anyway.

[furlanitalia 1]

No, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around

[Race4LastPlace 31]

You have to use both numbers together. Just because the second number, say 50, is lower than 75, you have to use it in conjunction with the first number to determine bite. If i am interpreting the info correctly: A 100/50 will have more distinct 'bite' than a 90/75, because even though the height of the 'fang' is smaller (50 as opposed to 75 [in 10 millionths]), The angle is different due to the amount of flat area (.1 as opposed to .9[inches]).

A 100/50 will have more bite than a 90/50 because the angles being different due to the length of flat.

Bite and glide is the direct relation of length of the flat (first number) and height between flat area and edge of blade (second number). Neither number will tell you and exact angle, although one could possible be determined (pythagorean theorem?).

So the more flat area is on a blade, the sharper the angle will be on the height of the 'fang', to the edge of the blade (is there another term BS would rather us use than fang? dont know what else to call it in simple terms)

Thats how i understand it to be...

From blackstone's website, here's how they describe it, hopefully its easier to understand than my eplanations :D

The first number is the width of the flat part of the blade, in thousandths, after the sharpening. A thousandth is a way of measuring small lengths. One-eighth, 1/8, of an inch, for example, would be 125 thousandths. So, for example, the width of a 90/75 FVB (90 thousandths = 0.090 inches) is less than 1/8 of an inch (0.125 inches). Although the thickness of a blade varies from skate to skate, the typical blade is approximately 115 thousandths (give or take a few thousandths). This should give you an idea of the ratio between the blade and the flat area that an FBV puts on the blade.

The second number is the height between the edges of the blade and the flat area of the blade (in 10 millionths). In the example given with the two FBV hollows, 90/75 and 100/75, a different angle of edge is obtained by changing the first number and keeping the second consistent, thus producing a different feel and more or less edge when skating.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Race4LastPlace