Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[ice365 0]

I have been using the flat bottom v on my sons new skates this past season. He is 9 and a good skater but about after the 3rd or 4th time of use after a sharpen I notice him starting to fall alot. did not really notice this with the conventional sharpen. Sorry did not read through all the pages to see if anyone else had this problem I think am going to buy a propal sharpener for next season so he has sharp skates for every game and practice.

[SolarWind 23]

I have been using the flat bottom v on my sons new skates this past season. He is 9 and a good skater but about after the 3rd or 4th time of use after a sharpen I notice him starting to fall alot. did not really notice this with the conventional sharpen. Sorry did not read through all the pages to see if anyone else had this problem I think am going to buy a propal sharpener for next season so he has sharp skates for every game and practice.

ability for FBV to hold edge has been discussed & opinions varied

initially many said that FBV doesn't hold edge as long as conventional ROH, and I remember when I just started using it early 2009 I was thinking the same. But after an adjustment period somehow this thought has gone away?

Blackstone was eluding to the fact that a arch-shaped surface or ROH edges distributes the force evenly unlike the triangular shape of FBV "fangs" - again not sure if this has something to do with it...

all in all I did have a few cases when freshly shapened FBV lost an edge after just ONE game, and I didn't have any crashes in a game & took my usual good care of skates (I have walking skate guards that I immediately put on when off the ice) so quality of the person doing the work makes HUGE difference.

on a side note I gave 5/8 a try again on one of my sets of steel & can now say with certainly that 100/50 has more bite, and more glide. After over a year on FBV it took .5hr to adjust to 5/8 to really start feeling the edges again, but still the grip wasn't as foolproof as with 100/50.

Coming from FBV stopping on ROH is MUCH easier though

All in all I didn't like the change at all - granted, I've been on 100/50 for well over a year, so maybe it'll be ok with time, but so far FBV was far more enjoyable - I said this before but I wish it was more readily available, and was more cost effective :(

[furlanitalia 1]

Race4lastplace that's a great way to describe it - you do need to use both numbers together.

As for holding an edge, I personally don't feel you lose your edges faster, but I feel that they have a higher failure rate. I know that sounds like a contradiction but I find the edges don't wear out any quicker, they're just more prone to roll out. I've gone almost 10 hours on my TO's with 100/75 (3 games, 2 hour drop in, 3 ref games) and will probably just need a sharpen now. I think it may just be an adjustment period that's needed, or extra care with your blades.

[ice365 0]

Thanks Solar Wind.

I think what I will do is actually try the FBV for myself as I have not. As for cost it is the cheapest sharpen i have found. $4.00. I have to travel a little to get there buit it is usually a stoop on my way home from work. i am planning on getting my own portable sharpener this fall but have yet to decide on what to get. Skatepal or Blackstone(FBV) I like the idea of the Skatepal only because it says it will give you the same sharpen everytime. Still undecided.

[skarbro 0]

Ok - it's been a while since I posted in this thread, so apologies if it's been recently discussed

I've been on it for 1.5 years now, but was thinking of going back & giving regular sharpening a try again for one simple reason: even regular but sharp blades are better then dull FBV

FBV still isn't widely available + is twice the price of regular sharpening, so I ended up sharpening once in a blue moon (untill I start blowing tires & spilling basically), but it's not that fun

Also anecdotally it sounds like FBV hasn't been that popular after all - for instance quite a few local shops after much research didn't go down that path simply because there was no interest for it. Even people who tried switched back etc

so what gives? Thoughts?

Are there any stats available as far as adoption of FBV in the NHL?

I'm in Toronto, and my experience has been completely the opposite. I don't know anyone who has used FBV and gone back to regular. I've been on it for like a year and it has been really good to me. I'll never go back.

FBV is the exact same price as regular sharpening at Sport Chek in Toronto. In fact I can use my pre-paid sharpening card (10 sharpenings for $30 CDN) for FBV - that's $3 CDN for an FBV sharpening. And it's available all over the place.

I guess location/demand really has an impact.

[itsforfun 0]

I just recently purchased a Blackstone sharpener, it's a Classic with a spinner. I look forward to getting it dialed in. I use to have a Wissota, no complaints except for the dressing system. It didn't give me a real positive feel while using it, but all in all & for the price it was a good piece. Only other complaint was the amount I had to pay for the International Point of Sale transaction fee. Oh well...

[Ivan 1]

Thanks Solar Wind.

I think what I will do is actually try the FBV for myself as I have not. As for cost it is the cheapest sharpen i have found. $4.00. I have to travel a little to get there buit it is usually a stoop on my way home from work. i am planning on getting my own portable sharpener this fall but have yet to decide on what to get. Skatepal or Blackstone(FBV) I like the idea of the Skatepal only because it says it will give you the same sharpen everytime. Still undecided.

I wouldn't get Prosharp's Skatepal if I were you. You'll be much happier with an X0 series machine. Learning how to shrpen is not that difficult.

[Composite Freak 0]

I'll never go back.

I agree with you.

I will not go back, but on the other hand, I am so incredibly happy with the place I get my skates sharpened, they could tell me they are going to sharpen my skates with a rock and sandpaper and I would agree to that.

They are sold on the FBV and believe it's the way to go, therefore, so am I.

[joepaw 0]

Anyone with feedback on the Ruby wheel for the X series?

[rachael7 1]

Anyone with feedback on the Ruby wheel for the X series?

Haven't put mine on yet. The pink is as smooth as silk and I'm liking it quite a bit, as long as I don't have a lot of damage to remove. I'll try the ruby as soon as I go through the pink.

[itsforfun 0]

My new machine that I purchased from Blackstone came with a pink wheel, didn't really care for it. Seemed really soft. I switched to the Blue Cobalt and I really like that wheel. Like I said before, I use too have a Wissota and now have a Classic with a spinner, the 2 machine's don't compare in my opinion.

[True North 0]

Hi Everyone - first post here

This thread has been both a god send and a curse. I curse the mod who decided to blend fan boy questions/comments on FBV along with questions about the X01/X02 series sharpeners :)

It was hell going through 123 pages and looking for relavent info on the machines........a proverbial needle in a haystack.....but I digress

I was initially going to get the X01 but the few complaints on here convinced me to get an X02 with the upgraded holder, which should be arriving next week. I ordered a couple of Ruby wheels and as soon as I have experimented a little bit I will post my findings

The pink wheel (which I also purchased) is supposed to be for figure skates and they are definitely meant to be softer. Both the X01 and X02 are supposed to ship standard with the orange wheel so it is odd that someone got a unit that shipped with a pink wheel instead of orange

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I don't think that he bought an X01/X02. Looks like he has a single-head unit. There isn't a blue cobalt wheel in miniature form

[Chadd 916]

It was hell going through 123 pages and looking for relavent info on the machines........a proverbial needle in a haystack.....but I digress

At the bottom left of each page is a box and button to "search topic". It actually works pretty well.

[True North 0]

At the bottom left of each page is a box and button to "search topic". It actually works pretty well.

I have been on many different forums and this has to be the most feature rich forum I have ever seen, thanks for the tip

It still would have been a laborius process to run that search on 123 pages but easier than skimming through every single page.

Unfortunately, you can't just run a search on X01 as the word is too small for the overall search function to work. I guess manufacturers just have to start using longer names.....

I don't think that he bought an X01/X02. Looks like he has a single-head unit. There isn't a blue cobalt wheel in miniature form

nice catch, I missed that one

Are you still enjoying your X02, any updates or findings on your experience?

[chiefs17 2]

My new machine that I purchased from Blackstone came with a pink wheel, didn't really care for it. Seemed really soft. I switched to the Blue Cobalt and I really like that wheel. Like I said before, I use too have a Wissota and now have a Classic with a spinner, the 2 machine's don't compare in my opinion.

I hope there is no comparison between a Blackstone Classic and a Wissota. How much does the Classic cost?

The comparison to a Wissota would be the X01, very similar in price.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

After several months of doing other things, I finally got around to spending some time with my X-01 last weekend. No matter what I did, and no matter how I adjusted the holders, the bottom edge of the blade (when mounted on the holder) always came out higher than the top and both ends of the skate.

I have tried marking the grinding wheel with marker (as suggested by either AfftonDad or chiefs17) to ensure that I have a proper grind on the wheel. I have also marked the skate blade and have made enough passes that all the marker is worn off.

Is it possible that I have something backwards or horribly wrong somewhere ?

Also, for some reason one of the adjustment wheels has stopped clicking on rotation. It still works at raising or leveling the column, but is this important and if so - how do I fix it ? I noticed there seems to be a set screw below each adjustment wheel, but don't see any obvious way to access it, and can't figure out what they would do anyways.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Just tear it down and rebuild.

[chiefs17 2]

Nuggy, are you using the Consumer Holder or the improved Tri Lie holder? Also, check to see if your skate boot is touching the holder anywhere. Clamp your skate in the holder and try to see if there is space between the holder and the boot. This happens easily and often with large or heavy skates. More of a problem with the Consumer Holder.

That set screw you're seeing is the part that makes it click, it has a spring loaded ball bearing in the end of it. The dials have indents machined into the bottom of them, and the ball of the set screw fits into those indents. Yes it is very important that they all click. This is what makes a Tri Lie holder much easier to use than other holders.

Two things can happen, the set screw can back itself out and lose contact with the dial, or you loosened the dial so much that the set screw is no longer making contact with the dial. I'm guessing the dial is too loose, especially if you are getting a high edge on the bottom edge of the skate, and then loosening the knobs to try and adjust for it.

If the skate boot is clearing the holder, and everything looks right, you may need to adjust the pitch dial. I know people say not to touch the pitch dial, but that's after you have your holder set up correctly. Ideally your skate blade should be perfectly parallel to the table when it's in the holder. This is hard to measure.

If you are using the consumer holder it will be a struggle to get good results, and you should think about upgrading to the improved Tri Lie, there's a model number for it on the BS site. I can help with problems on the Consumer Holder if you need it.

Let me know if this helps.

[rachael7 1]

Blackstone also now sells their calibration block (part number U-BLK) for resetting the holder. It sounds like you've been round the block a few times with adjustments, so it might not be a bad idea to reset it back to factory default using the calibration block and then start again.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

chiefs- thanks for the reply !

Nuggy, are you using the Consumer Holder or the improved Tri Lie holder? Also, check to see if your skate boot is touching the holder anywhere. Clamp your skate in the holder and try to see if there is space between the holder and the boot. This happens easily and often with large or heavy skates. More of a problem with the Consumer Holder.

I'm using the Child Tri-Lie holder. I will double check that the boot is not touching the holder. That does sound like a possible and plausible cause for the symptoms I am seeing.

That set screw you're seeing is the part that makes it click, it has a spring loaded ball bearing in the end of it. The dials have indents machined into the bottom of them, and the ball of the set screw fits into those indents. Yes it is very important that they all click. This is what makes a Tri Lie holder much easier to use than other holders.

Two things can happen, the set screw can back itself out and lose contact with the dial, or you loosened the dial so much that the set screw is no longer making contact with the dial. I'm guessing the dial is too loose, especially if you are getting a high edge on the bottom edge of the skate, and then loosening the knobs to try and adjust for it.

How do I access the screw ? I could probably move it with pliers, but that doesn't seem right. Does it need a hex key to turn it ? IIRC it looked like a flat head screwdriver would be needed, but there isn't nearly enough clearance to get to it without, as JR suggests, tearing it down and removing the holder from the base.

If the skate boot is clearing the holder, and everything looks right, you may need to adjust the pitch dial. I know people say not to touch the pitch dial, but that's after you have your holder set up correctly. Ideally your skate blade should be perfectly parallel to the table when it's in the holder. This is hard to measure.

Oh, I'm far past trying to get everything working with just the first two dials :lol: What I did (since I had stupidly moved the pitch dial around when I first got it) was get an inside caliper. I used the front two dials to center (by eye) the blade against the grinding wheel. I then used the calipers to measure the space between the platform and the base at the front, then used the pitch dial to move the back of the base to the same height. I figured this would get me in the right ball park. Bottom edge was still high. After moving the front dials around as per the Blackstone instructions (even moving them so far that the blade was not even fully on the wheel), I started trying to use the pitch dial. I could see how raising the pitch "should" fix my problem, but for some reason it just did not. The pitch dial and the other dials are definitely working. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

When I get back to it I am going to flip my skate around in the holder and figure out how many passes are needed to knock down the edge that was high. This should teach me how many passes I should need to do at maximum.

By the time I figure this out, I will be down to grinding the boot :lol:.

Blackstone also now sells their calibration block (part number U-BLK) for resetting the holder. It sounds like you've been round the block a few times with adjustments, so it might not be a bad idea to reset it back to factory default using the calibration block and then start again.

Thanks for the reminder. I did get an email advising that the part was now available. I probably should buy it.

Another thought occurred to me - is it possible I am clamping the blade too much ? The process of clamping the blade seems to change the "level" of the blade/boot. Specifically, the back of the boot rises by a significant amount as I pull the clamp lever. Maybe I am clamping it so hard that the boot is tilted ?

How does one know how hard to pull on the lever ? I recall the instructions say to go to 45 degrees, but surely that depends on how far you have turned the screw first ?

[rachael7 1]

Another thought occurred to me - is it possible I am clamping the blade too much ? The process of clamping the blade seems to change the "level" of the blade/boot. Specifically, the back of the boot rises by a significant amount as I pull the clamp lever. Maybe I am clamping it so hard that the boot is tilted ?

How does one know how hard to pull on the lever ? I recall the instructions say to go to 45 degrees, but surely that depends on how far you have turned the screw first ?

The clamping force would only affect the level of the blade if you have an interference between the boot and the jig or maybe between the skate's holder and the jig. Definitely double-check that, as it sounds like your problem lies there. For tightness, I bring the screw down to just touch and then pull the lever to a little more then 45 degrees. If I haven't run the screw all the way down, it sometimes comes up closer to vertical, but it shouldn't be that critical - just make it nice and snug.

[chiefs17 2]

To get to the set screw you will need to remove all of the dials, and I believe it is a flat head screwdriver to adjust it. If I recall, those set screws are in there pretty tight, maybe even with Loc-tite, which would make sense since you don't want those screws to move.

Before doing that, check the clearance of the boot to the holder. Your symptoms sound like a boot clearance issue. If you are having clearance problems, you can definitely turn the skate around to give you more clearance. You can also try to position the boot fore or aft to avoid clearance issues. I'm surprised that you would have clearance issues with kids skates, but I'm not familiar with the child holder.

"Another thought occurred to me - is it possible I am clamping the blade too much ? The process of clamping the blade seems to change the "level" of the blade/boot. Specifically, the back of the boot rises by a significant amount as I pull the clamp lever. Maybe I am clamping it so hard that the boot is tilted ?"

You say that the back of the boot rises when you clamp it. Try this, after you are done clamping it, take a look at the area where the upper and lower jaws are contacting the skate blade. You should see if there is a gap between either of the jaws and the skate blade. If the skate blade appears to be making contact with the entire thickness or width of the jaw then you should be fine. Holding the whole thing up to a light and sighting down the blade will help with seeing if there is a gap or not.

I found that you need very little pressure on the clamp when tightening. Try going just snug enough. And yes, where you have the screw to begin with will affect the angle of the lever, so you can't just say crank it till there's a 45 degree angle on the lever. If you're doing kids skates, you can almost get away with just using the screw for clamping, it really is such little force that is needed. If you think it's not tight enough, try to move the skate once it's clamped down.

Don't waste your money on that calibration block. If you have dial calipers you can calibrate it yourself using those. One call to Blackstone should get you the dimensions of the calibration block if you really want to get it set to "factory specs". But your description of what you did after messing with the pitch knob is exactly what I would have done. Get the blade centered on the wheel by eye using the front dials, then measure the distance between the lower plate and dial plate on the front of the holder, then set the pitch dial so that everything is level. You did it right.

Keep us updated.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Chiefs17 and rachael7 - thanks again. Will try the things you guys suggest and keep you all posted.

Just a note, I did buy the child holder and did so as I planned on doing my kids' skates, but right now I am working on a pair of adult Mission S500s. Ironically not all my kids' skates fit in the child holder .

[NuggyBuggy 0]

OK, so I was able to fix my the no-clicking issue, thanks guys.

I was studying the manual for the X-01, and it says as regards to installing the mini spinner "Be certain to install the mini spinner so that the snap ring inside the mini spinner is visible; when the spinner screw is viewed from the threaded end".

I have no idea what this means. I understand that the snap ring is the "C" shaped ring but find the rest of this to be rather hard to follow.

I *think* they mean that the inscription on the spinner (e.g. Blackstone 90/75) needs to be visible when the spinner screw (only) is removed, i.e. the inscription should be facing upwards. Is this correct ?