The "revolutionary" channel Z skate sharpening by Prosharp

[IniNew 51]

Asking questions is great--people give their opinions on what works or does. That is a video of a kid skating around (and juggling.... and riding a unicycle....). I guess if the Z-Chan can help me do that, I'm interested!

[jimmy 194]

Asking questions is great--people give their opinions on what works or does. That is a video of a kid skating around (and juggling.... and riding a unicycle....). I guess if the Z-Chan can help me do that, I'm interested!

I'm not a video chopping expert so didn't know how to edit out the non-skating scenes, but if you can fast forward to them you will see some awesome skating. The kid certainly has great skills. BTW, he won the Bauer Contest and a nice shiny pair of APX skates.

[IniNew 51]

Which brings us back to my original point. Because that kid can skate is not indicative of a critical opinion on the sharpening. It's purely marketing. The same as fitness commercials putting ripped people in an electronic belt that's suppose to give you abs in 30 mins a day.

[jimmy 194]

Not necessarily. Generally if a new method of sharpening on the street is bad, it would be evident quick. What beter way to see that it performs than to see someone actually skating well on it? There is no "marketing" involved in the video, the young man is simply skating well for his Bauer contest, which has nothing to do with his skate sharpening. I can remember back when FBV first came out, all the naysayers had to say about that. The ZC is no different, it works well for some, others not so well, just like FBV's.

[Chadd 916]

If the video had him discussing the ZC it would be on point. Random video of someone who happens to use it is pretty much irrelevant.

[jimmy 194]

If the video had him discussing the ZC it would be on point. Random video of someone who happens to use it is pretty much irrelevant.

Sorry Chadd, I have to say you are wrong on this one. Instead of a video of someone skating on a ZC, you prefer what, someone talking about it in a post? What is your answer to the orig question of long term use of ZC? I know of no skater who has used the ZC longer than the skater in the video. There is simply no one else in North America who has used it longer. That's why I offered it. I can recall a while back where everyone was so adamant that they wanted to see videos of people skating, but now it's somehow "irrelevant".

[shooter27 116]

I think the point is that while the kid is a strong skater and him using zc means that it obviously works as a sharpening method, there isn't anything in the video that would allow someone to get an understanding as to whether or not it works better than other sharpening methods for that kid, or anyone. Just because he likes it doesn't necessarily mean its better in an objective sense, it just feels better to him, but it's possible that he would be faster or turn quicker on one of the other sharpening methods. I think that's where the bodybuilding anology comes from - just because it works for the kid and hes a good skater doesn't mean it'll make someone else a better skater. Personally, I'm interested in trying it,I'm using FBV now but I've never found it to be that starkly different than traditional roh like some have so maybe this will be give me that aha! Moment that a lot of people got with FBV.

[Chadd 916]

Sorry Chadd, I have to say you are wrong on this one. Instead of a video of someone skating on a ZC, you prefer what, someone talking about it in a post? What is your answer to the orig question of long term use of ZC? I know of no skater who has used the ZC longer than the skater in the video. There is simply no one else in North America who has used it longer. That's why I offered it. I can recall a while back where everyone was so adamant that they wanted to see videos of people skating, but now it's somehow "irrelevant".

Yes, having someone that actually used it discuss it in a post would be much more productive than a video of someone skating on it. Discussion of the feel, the differences between different cuts or overall impressions of the style of sharpening would provide far more useful information than video of a kid doing a little skating, shooting, stickhandling, juggling and all around goofing off By now you should know that this site, and its members, prefer actual information. I also don't see some huge demand for video of the ZC in this topic, or any other.

[hockeymass 11]

Sorry Chadd, I have to say you are wrong on this one. Instead of a video of someone skating on a ZC, you prefer what, someone talking about it in a post? What is your answer to the orig question of long term use of ZC? I know of no skater who has used the ZC longer than the skater in the video. There is simply no one else in North America who has used it longer. That's why I offered it. I can recall a while back where everyone was so adamant that they wanted to see videos of people skating, but now it's somehow "irrelevant".

I think the original question was more asking "is there anyone who has used it for a long time and can provide information on it?", not just asking if a person existed who had used it for a long time.

[jimmy 194]

I don't think you'll find many on it to begin with, finding someone who has been on it a long time will be pretty difficult.

[IniNew 51]

I don't think you'll find many on it to begin with, finding someone who has been on it a long time will be pretty difficult.

I wonder if that is indicative of it's quality. FBV didn't have as much of a problem grabbing market share.

[Goonsquad 209]

Sorry Chadd, I have to say you are wrong on this one. Instead of a video of someone skating on a ZC, you prefer what, someone talking about it in a post? What is your answer to the orig question of long term use of ZC? I know of no skater who has used the ZC longer than the skater in the video. There is simply no one else in North America who has used it longer. That's why I offered it. I can recall a while back where everyone was so adamant that they wanted to see videos of people skating, but now it's somehow "irrelevant".

How could you tell he was on a ZC sharpened runner? The other way to look at is if all the branding was removed from the helmet, stick, or protective gear, would you be able to tell by how the puck traveed the brand of stick being used or how fast he got up after a hit, the type of protective gear he used?

The other side of it is yeah he's been on ZC for the longest, how do I as a potential user try that type of sharpening out. I recall when FBV first came out, with me being in the DC area, it was a lot more difficult to find a local shop that provided that service.

The video is great for selling himself to potential recruiters but i am not sure I see how ZC fits in there. What happens if he plays in an area that does not offer ZC? does his skating ability automatically drop?

[jimmy 194]

I wonder if that is indicative of it's quality. FBV didn't have as much of a problem grabbing market share.

No, it's more related to the fact that not many shops have purchased the new equipment to do it. Think also, just how many shops still to this day still do not offer the FBV. And speaking of FBV, when it first came out, there were many who didn't like it. At first when they only offered 100/75 and 90/75, many found the 100/75 too sharp and the 90/75 not sharp enough, so they went back to hollow sharpenings. Wasn't till the 100/50 was released did it really have mass appeal.

[GiancarloSFL 15]

Any more updates or reviews of the Z-Channel sharpening?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I have been working with it for 3 years IMO there are some benefits as mentioned for some and there is a study being done this year vs FBV and ROH sharpening when that is complete and there is proof that it actually offers a larger than 5% increase in speed then I will jump on the bandwagon.

I would never deter a player from getting it as long as they use the profile they are used to and we figure out the hollow they are most comfortable with using the channel. As of right now I have one player using it (here dad is an investor in the company so......) others have tried and didn't really feel the difference.

NHL players that had it done while skating in Toronto had the blades removed last season at camp as the trainers involved did not want to deal with more products. That being said some are now using Pro Sharp machines to do the Profiles to save themselves time so we will see as mentioned how it goes.

I will just sit and wait before investing in my own machine as I have access to Pro Sharp and ZC blades from the supplier here.

[shooter27 116]

Did the guys that had their EQMs take them off ZC ask to get it back/go back to it this past summer or did they not notice enough of a difference to care?

[jimmy 194]

I've been doing it since it first came out in Europe. Got one of the prototype dressers and bits early on and had a chance to test it, both with volunteers, and those who just wanted to try it. As with all sharpening methods, some like it some don't. I have quite a few who were on FBV, who switched to it permanently, and also some who went back to FBV. There is nothing wrong with this method, it has great grip and good speed, just like FBV, just achieves it in a different way. All I can say is you just won't know unless you try it.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Did the guys that had their EQMs take them off ZC ask to get it back/go back to it this past summer or did they not notice enough of a difference to care?

The testing initially was done here in Toronto for it and there was marginal differences in the speed and such. the guys that did like it and had it switched to them was like its ok but not like they had to have it.

I think the main issue with it in the testing was that they put everyone on 7-13 and the ZC and expected guys to just take to it. as mentioned before in another spot even the owner agreed that was probably not the best idea as the gues were used to a shorter combo radius. So if that was done with the ZC they actually may have noticed a larger difference and in one players case they would have had to get it as he was a star player on that team. I always believe when there is an issue you have to see that person skate check all the variables there is no magic fix and no one profile or sharpen that works for everyone. I have my go to profiles and hollows i start with and go from there. As one player stated today to me " I am going back to what got me here. I am getting X skate from the store going with it because it feels good I was trying to out think myself in sticks and skates, so were starting from scratch and I will drop them off to you wed." a good tough AHL player that had a decent season last year but was trying to over tweek everything. Starting wed he will be back to pretty much stock everything curve and skates and do minor tweeks until it feels good again. Sorry was closing up and was on a role there.

I shouldn't post late at night..........lol

[flip12 699]

I hope it's ok to revive an this thread. I have some questions about Channel Z as I'm considering it instead of FBV, which appears to be incredibly difficult to find in Europe. I skated on FBV twice and loved everything except how much I was grabbing the ice with stopping and pivoting manoeuvres. I'd be happy just finding which FBV suits me, but the only place I've found online that has FBV is a place in Hamburg, and I suspect I may like even less edge than they're going to be offering.

1. Most Channel Z sharpening for hockey appears to be adding the (small, medium, or large) channel to an otherwise standard ROH cut, is this correct?

2. Unlike the FBV, which has a flat between the diagonal edges, Channel Z can be done to skates with that but Pro Sharp only seems to recommend a "flat" middle for bandy skates. How similar is Channel Z's flat grind to an FBV grind?

3. Overall, Channel Z feels similar to FBV in terms of glide and edge grip (both of which were amazing in my FBV sessions) with their normal radiused and channeled sharpening?

There's at least one place nearby in Malmo that does it, but I haven't been able to get a hold of them on more specifics about which options are available, and being an addicted MSH'er, I'm anxious to do my research before going in any one direction on it.

Thanks for any help! :)

Edit: forgot 1.A: How does a small, medium, or large channel differ in its effect on edge and flat feeling from the blade?

Edited October 22, 2014 by flip12

[goodguy 7]

Anybody doing z Channel Sharpenings in Michigan?

[stick9 881]

I switched from FBV to zChannel a few weeks ago. The guys at TSR recommended so I figured what the hell.

I started off with 5/8th's ROH with a medium channel. I noticed way more bite than my usual FBV, more glide too. I still had more than enough grip and glide even when the blades 'felt' dull to the touch. Hoping to reduce the amount of bite, I went with a 3/4th's ROH and a smaller channel. I am hoping this will reduce the amount of bite, honestly, I didn't notice a difference. For me, first time out on a fresh zChannel is borderline too much bite. I do really like the glide and it doesn't seem to deteriorate over the life of the sharpening. But there is the cost and I do wonder what impact if any it has on the life of ones steel.

I might be sold on it...I don't know. I haven't really exhausted all the options yet and I've only been on that second sharpening once.

[flip12 699]

That's why it's tricky to try two variable changes at once. You don't know what effect they have, if any. What about a 3/4" with a medium channel?

[stick9 881]

I need more time on the 3/4 with the smaller channel. I was trying to adjust to some heel shims which I was fighting, so it's hard to give an accurate asessment. One thing and I don't know if it's the zChannel or the edge holders, but there is a humming sound when you stop at low speeds.

If you opt to try it, start small. The grip is insane.

[mojo122 529]

Not knocking it, but when I tried it I felt the glide was the same as FBV, but I felt the edge control using FBV was better than that of the Z-Channel. I would however take the Z over Blademaster's flat bottom version.

[stick9 881]

I'd rather sharpen my skates with a round file and steel wool than a Blademaster Flat Bottom.