Skates - are the top models worth it?

[JAG 20]

I am in need of new skates, but I was not planning on taking the plunge until I learned more about them. This weekend Purehockey.com is having their "tent sale", and EVERYTHING is 25% off. On top of that, last years models like the Bauer APX2, and Reebok Ribcore are on sale for amazing prices, plus with the extra 25% off that...making the savings astronomical. If I'm going to get new skates, this weekend seems like the best time because the price is just unbeatable.

As I understand it, each manufacture makes a line of skates. Within that line, they have different "levels" of the same model. For example:

Bauer makes the APX2. But then there is the X100, X90, X80, X70, etc... With each subsequent model you see a dramatic price decrease, mainly because of the materials that are used to make the skate. I understand the APX2 is the top end model.

My question is, will I benefit from everything this model has to offer? Or will my size, weight, technique, etc... not be enough to get the full potential out of the skate? Am I correct in understanding that if the skate boot is too stiff (which the top end models are), that I won't be utilizing the features that the skate has to offer?

I'm 5'6", 150 lbs. I am a strong skater, but not an elite skater by any stretch. I do not mind spending the money on a high quality skate, as long as I'm getting out of it what I'm paying for.

I plan on trying on as many different brands and models in the store as I possibly can. I understand that FIT is the most important thing. But once I find the best fitting brand, I want to make sure I get the skate that works best for me. Is there anything I can do in the store to rule out a skate that won't benefit me?

I hope this question makes sense. Let me know what you guys think.

[jonesy9020 77]

For most lines, with some exceptions, I think the difference between the top model to the second model is negligible for the non-pro decent hockey player. For example, I think most decent skaters would be just as happy in a 190 as in an MX3, an x900 as in a 1X, X100 compared to an APX2, a Tacks 6052 compared to a Tacks, RBZ100 compared to RBZ, etc. Particularly with Bauers, the second model is as stiff as the top model but doesn't employ some of the very latest technologies and may not put as much of an emphasis on weight reduction as the top line. So you're still getting a pro stiffness skate, but it might be a little heavier.

From there, the X90 is still a great skate and at only 150 pounds, it should have plenty of stiffness for you as skates like this are still worn by several pro level players. The 180 isn't bad either. Ditto for the RBZ90 (A reedonkulous bargain at 175 right now). Anything around that third tier is usually a very very good skate that is more than sufficient for the average skater. You can buy skates in this area of the line with a good deal of confidence.

From there down is where lines kind of diverge where I think some skates are decent value and others not so much. I think the X80 would be a solid skate for you playing at a relatively low weight at a somewhat competitive beer league level. However, I have reservations about the 170 or the RBZ80.

I wouldn't go any lower than that if you're a decent skater. Skates like the X60, 160, RBZ70, Tacks 3052, etc. are perfectly good for entry level players, but as a good skater I think you'll find yourself quickly wanting more.

If you're looking for the max value for the money, I think second or third skate in the line is a good target. You're also working with sale prices and big discounts on top though, so if you like a top model better, just go for it. Also while the fit for each skate in a line is generally similar, the different materials used and construction methods can make one model feel good and another notsomuch. For example, I loved the way Supreme One.9 felt, but was not wild about its big brother, the NXG. So try on a few different models within a line before you eliminate it from contention.

Also here's a general guide of the skate lines each manufacturer has out.
Bauer: Vapor (narrowest, v-shaped heel), Supreme (average, maybe wraps tighter in the forefoot, more of a circular heel), Nexus (widest)
CCM: Ribcor (narrowest, but not really that narrow), Jetspeed (released like 2 days ago and not likely to be on sale, similar fit to Supreme), Tacks (hard fit to describe, narrower heel with wider forefoot), RBZ (Wider fit, but not as wide as Nexus and very heat moldable).
Easton: Mako (most thermoformable boot out there)

Hope this was helpful and not ridiculously overwhelming.

[Gummer12 134]

General Rule of Thumb. Get what fits Best, and whatever you can afford.

[shoot_the_goalie 277]

I think the 25% sale has MAP restrictions and also does not apply to Bauer products if I'm not mistaken. May want to check cause if so you may be limited in your choices in terms of skate selections at big discounts.

With that said. If you're a strong skater, 2nd tier skate is a good buy. Tier 1 skates are obviously fantastic but tier 2 skates will suit you just fine.

[jonesy9020 77]

It says on the front page does not apply to Bauer product but I just tested it and was able to apply it to a pair of X80s. Bauer usually removes MAP restrictions for old stock on clearance. So you could probably use the discount on APX2s but not on new 1Xs.

[mickz 107]

JAG,

Assuming the skate fits, it really depends on how much skate you actually need. Take your skating ability, frequency of use and budget into consideration. In terms of quality as long as you're in the medium to high end models like you mentioned you should be fine. I see more skates fall apart due to improper maintenance than build quality.

It's no different than people who drive around town in high end cars. Can they squeeze all the performance out of the car? Probably not, maybe those who bring it out to a track can. Would a less expensive vehicle get the job done? Most likely.

[JAG 20]

For most lines, with some exceptions, I think the difference between the top model to the second model is negligible for the non-pro decent hockey player. For example, I think most decent skaters would be just as happy in a 190 as in an MX3, an x900 as in a 1X, X100 compared to an APX2, a Tacks 6052 compared to a Tacks, RBZ100 compared to RBZ, etc. Particularly with Bauers, the second model is as stiff as the top model but doesn't employ some of the very latest technologies and may not put as much of an emphasis on weight reduction as the top line. So you're still getting a pro stiffness skate, but it might be a little heavier.

From there, the X90 is still a great skate and at only 150 pounds, it should have plenty of stiffness for you as skates like this are still worn by several pro level players. The 180 isn't bad either. Ditto for the RBZ90 (A reedonkulous bargain at 175 right now). Anything around that third tier is usually a very very good skate that is more than sufficient for the average skater. You can buy skates in this area of the line with a good deal of confidence.

From there down is where lines kind of diverge where I think some skates are decent value and others not so much. I think the X80 would be a solid skate for you playing at a relatively low weight at a somewhat competitive beer league level. However, I have reservations about the 170 or the RBZ80.

I wouldn't go any lower than that if you're a decent skater. Skates like the X60, 160, RBZ70, Tacks 3052, etc. are perfectly good for entry level players, but as a good skater I think you'll find yourself quickly wanting more.

If you're looking for the max value for the money, I think second or third skate in the line is a good target. You're also working with sale prices and big discounts on top though, so if you like a top model better, just go for it. Also while the fit for each skate in a line is generally similar, the different materials used and construction methods can make one model feel good and another notsomuch. For example, I loved the way Supreme One.9 felt, but was not wild about its big brother, the NXG. So try on a few different models within a line before you eliminate it from contention.

Also here's a general guide of the skate lines each manufacturer has out.

Bauer: Vapor (narrowest, v-shaped heel), Supreme (average, maybe wraps tighter in the forefoot, more of a circular heel), Nexus (widest)

CCM: Ribcor (narrowest, but not really that narrow), Jetspeed (released like 2 days ago and not likely to be on sale, similar fit to Supreme), Tacks (hard fit to describe, narrower heel with wider forefoot), RBZ (Wider fit, but not as wide as Nexus and very heat moldable).

Easton: Mako (most thermoformable boot out there)

Hope this was helpful and not ridiculously overwhelming.

Well it is highly overwhelming, but your breakdown helps tremendously. I really appreciate you taking the time to write that up. It gives me much needed perspective on the skate situation.

I think the 25% sale has MAP restrictions and also does not apply to Bauer products if I'm not mistaken. May want to check cause if so you may be limited in your choices in terms of skate selections at big discounts.

With that said. If you're a strong skater, 2nd tier skate is a good buy. Tier 1 skates are obviously fantastic but tier 2 skates will suit you just fine.

The MAP restrictions are online only. If you go into any of the stores, you get the full 25% OFF. Plus, as jonesy9020 mentioned above, all of last years models are coupon eligible.

[Hat_Trick_Hokie 49]

I went through this recently when I was forced to pick up a new pair of ice skates after my 10 year old Mission Pue Flys broke on me. After liking the fit in my Vapor roller skates, I focused on the last year model line of Vapor ice skates. Went to my local shop to confirm the correct boot size and looked at the APX2, X100, X90, X80, etc. I felt that the X90 at $300 was the sweet spot with the big fat tounge, the new Lightspeed Edge Holder, upgraded liner over the X80, nice composite outsole, etc. I would have preferred the composite quarter package on the APX2 or X100 but after holding the skates in person, didn't feel like it was needed for me.

[sundinleafs137 13]

Being a smaller skater myself I found it very hard to get used to a composite boot for the high end skates. The higher end skates might fit better and some will give you a better wrap around your foot but one thing to keep in mind is that the stiffness might not be to your liking once you actually get on the ice.

[GunRunner 28]

I think the 25% sale has MAP restrictions and also does not apply to Bauer products if I'm not mistaken. May want to check cause if so you may be limited in your choices in terms of skate selections at big discounts.

With that said. If you're a strong skater, 2nd tier skate is a good buy. Tier 1 skates are obviously fantastic but tier 2 skates will suit you just fine.

I may be wrong but I think the MAP pricing only applies to current year models. Since the APX2's are a year old the MAP doesn't apply.

If you can get the APX2's in your size for half to less than half off, why not

[althoma1 574]

MAP stands for Minimum Advertised Price. The store can sell it for whatever price it wants in store as long as it's not advertised for that price (online, flyers ect.).

As for the original question, if you're looking at a current line then the 2nd or 3rd from the top of the line will still be good quality skates. Closeout top of the line models can definitely provide great value though.

Personally, if both skates fit equally well I'd go for the top of the line model vs. a lower tier as long as the price wasn't more than say 30% more. For example, if you could get a top of the line model for $300 that fits well or save $50 by going for a lower model for $250; I'd still go for the top of the line model as $50 is marginal considering the amount of use you should get out of the skates. Now, if the top of the line model was on sale for $500, but you could get the second or third tier skate for $300 then I'd certainly consider going with the lower model to save the $200 if it fit just as well.

[Chadd 916]

For a long time I have felt that the second level skates (in general) have been the best combination of quality and cost. Fit should generally be the same up and down the line, though it will vary a little bit due to the differences in materials.

MAP stands for Minimum Advertised Price. The store can sell it for whatever price it wants in store as long as it's not advertised for that price (online, flyers ect.).

"In Store" being the important part of the phrase.

[stick9 881]

I was there (PureHockey) earlier today. I asked about the online pricing and was told it's still 25% off but not your traditional discount. Online you pay the full amount, the 25% off is mailed to you separately as a rebate check.

Yes, I'll echo what others here have said, next to top of the line is where the most value is. However, Bauer says the X800 will offer the most bang for the buck.

[JAG 20]

Follow up question. I searched around a bit and couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

While at a shop today, I learned that my feet are two different sizes. Also, I'm on the cusp of junior sizes and senior sizes. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the junior skate and senior skate are the sizes they give to them. junior is up to size 5.5, and senior starts at 6. Is this the only difference? Or are the junior skates made differently/with different materials than the senior skates?

[jonesy9020 77]

Follow up question. I searched around a bit and couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

While at a shop today, I learned that my feet are two different sizes. Also, I'm on the cusp of junior sizes and senior sizes. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the junior skate and senior skate are the sizes they give to them. junior is up to size 5.5, and senior starts at 6. Is this the only difference? Or are the junior skates made differently/with different materials than the senior skates?

You've asked a question that will likely spark a major debate on this forum haha (it has in the past). They're generally made with the same materials, but depending on the brand/model, the senior models might be made deliberately stiffer. In any case, if you go with a top of the line junior skate in 5.5, it should be plenty stiff for you at 150 pounds. The one thing I'll say is make sure that the 5.5 actually fits and you're not talking yourself into it just to save a few bucks.

However, if you were a smaller size in an RBZ skate and a larger size in one of the other models, that's probably right on. RBZ runs a half size smaller.

[JAG 20]

You've asked a question that will likely spark a major debate on this forum haha (it has in the past). They're generally made with the same materials, but depending on the brand/model, the senior models might be made deliberately stiffer. In any case, if you go with a top of the line junior skate in 5.5, it should be plenty stiff for you at 150 pounds. The one thing I'll say is make sure that the 5.5 actually fits and you're not talking yourself into it just to save a few bucks.

However, if you were a smaller size in an RBZ skate and a larger size in one of the other models, that's probably right on. RBZ runs a half size smaller.

It has nothing to do with saving money. I want to make sure I'm getting the best skate for my foot. Like I said earlier, I don't mind spending the money as long as what I'm getting is worth it.

It is interesting that the junior size skates are less in price, but the skate is the "same". My guess would be that they want to appeal to parents who know that their kid may only get one season out of a pair of skates, so they don't want to price them out of the top end skates...knowing they'll be back next year for more. That makes sense to me. And if that's the case, I'll count my blessings and be happy with my purchase. But if I drop the dough on a "junior" skate, only to find that its not as good quality as a senior skate, and I run it into the ground in a year or two, I'll be pretty pissed.

I tried on a size 6 and a size 5.5 in the same skate, and the 5.5 was not too tight, or too small for my foot. My toes did not touch the front cap of the skate (either standing up straight, or flexing in a hockey stance). This leads me to believe I'm a 5.5. On the flip side, the 6 did not feel too big either. They honestly felt pretty close to each other.

Thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

[jonesy9020 77]

I think it's both wanting to appeal to hockey parents who sometimes have more than one kid to outfit and it's also just because the larger skates take more material to produce regardless of it's the same materials. They have to draw the line in pricing somewhere, so they did it at size 6. It makes a little more sense if you compare the amount of materials that go into the average sized Junior skate (say a size 3) versus the average size senior skate (maybe an 8.5) rather than comparing right at the dividing line. Probably almost 2x amount of materials if you do the comparison that way.

(Note: not saying that materials are where the bulk of cost in a skate comes from, it's just helpful to understand.)

Good luck with the skates.

[kingofnooyork 30]

I'm a heavier guy (240lbs) so i've always stuck with the top line skates when i can afford them. I can feel the difference on cross-overs and quick turns when you're putting alot of torque on the boot. If you're under 200 you probably wont notice a difference unless you are an elite level skater.

[beanhead 22]

While at a shop today, I learned that my feet are two different sizes. Also, I'm on the cusp of junior sizes and senior sizes. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the junior skate and senior skate are the sizes they give to them. junior is up to size 5.5, and senior starts at 6. Is this the only difference? Or are the junior skates made differently/with different materials than the senior skates?

We are in the same boat. I am 5'6 140lbs. My left foot is a 5.5 and my right foot is slightly smaller and can fit into a 5. I have not found any differences in junior vs senior skates other than the size, at least in the skates I've looked at. Like you said above, I think they just keep the price lower so parents will buy them for growing teens. For us smaller adults we get to save a couple hundred dollars in skates.

[Baz1985 5]

Isn't it the same as kids shoes/clothes etc? They do not get taxed, well they do not in the UK.

[JAG 20]

We are in the same boat. I am 5'6 140lbs. My left foot is a 5.5 and my right foot is slightly smaller and can fit into a 5. I have not found any differences in junior vs senior skates other than the size, at least in the skates I've looked at. Like you said above, I think they just keep the price lower so parents will buy them for growing teens. For us smaller adults we get to save a couple hundred dollars in skates.

Thanks for the input. I feel a little better about getting "junior" sized skates now... if they are what fit better.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Follow up question. I searched around a bit and couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

While at a shop today, I learned that my feet are two different sizes. Also, I'm on the cusp of junior sizes and senior sizes. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the junior skate and senior skate are the sizes they give to them. junior is up to size 5.5, and senior starts at 6. Is this the only difference? Or are the junior skates made differently/with different materials than the senior skates?

VH will be doing JR skates from size 6 down starting in the fall if you can wait? They are also working of fit center so you can try the skates before ordering.

But if that much of a high end skate is to much I would go one or 2 models down from the top.. in what ever one fits best for you as mentioned many times above.