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DarkStar50

Total Hockey Files Bankruptcy

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On July 7, 2016 at 3:44 PM, chippa13 said:

 

I disagree with you assertion on pricing. I am hopeful that the manufacturers will finally learn that gear prices have exceeded their upper limits and while they won't scale them back, they will at least keep them steady for a little while. The gear market has become a wait for closeouts and 20% offs for most of the consumers. It is only a small number of folks who buy newly launched gear and the reason is simple, it is just too expensive and the cycles are too frequent.

This. Exactly.

 

its just like the golf market. 

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2 hours ago, tpedersen3118 said:

This. Exactly.

 

its just like the golf market. 

Except my  sticks break within a year while my drivers normally last for a decade.

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11 minutes ago, ZINC said:

Except my  sticks break within a year while my drivers normally last for a decade.

 

Not quite the same use cases. Hockey sticks and golf clubs both launch projectiles with a swinging motion, yes, but hockey sticks also function as sabres ... how long would those clubs last if they had to withstand the impacts inherent to hockey? And still perform, ballistically?

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A sad point that is also being lost is the amount of money owed to smaller vendors.  Companies  that are really going to hurt by the loss of business/payments still owed.

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On 7/9/2016 at 7:37 PM, Zac911 said:

 

I had many dealers that were past due $500 and they got cut off.  These smaller dealers are their most profitable dealer-  They receive no extra POP or promotional items,  they receive the smallest discount and get the least amount of support.  Yet get cut off over $500.  Then you have the big dogs that receive all kinds of promotional materials,  additional POP,  the largest discounts,  special visits from CLM's,  Bauer Experience Tours and on and on.  They owe a couple million and someone in MGT makes the call to ship them.  Then a couple million turns into 5 million and someone in MGT makes the call to ship them.  Then they owe 10 million and someone makes the call to ship them.  Then they owe 15 million and someone in MGT makes the call to ship them. Then they owe 20 million and ... Oh geez... Maybe we have a problem here.  How is this mess not the MFG's fault?  If Bauer shuts them off,  then CCM follows suit,  but instead Bauer keeps kicking the can and CCM follows suit.  Reality is perhaps if there was some real courage and honesty in our business Bauer shuts them off much earlier instead of ignoring all warning signs and exacerbating the problem.

 

 

 

 

What is that saying?  Owe the bank 1 million, the bank owns you...  Owe the bank 100 million, you own the bank.  

 

Good luck to those of you in the industry.  

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5 hours ago, flip12 said:

 

Not quite the same use cases. Hockey sticks and golf clubs both launch projectiles with a swinging motion, yes, but hockey sticks also function as sabres ... how long would those clubs last if they had to withstand the impacts inherent to hockey? And still perform, ballistically?

 

That would be a site to see... Golf cross-check and ankle slashing... dropping THE glove :). Many would pay to see this. I think we are onto something here. Not really relevant to discussion, but I kind of envisioning this while reading the post and felt compelled to write it. Sorry. 

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6 hours ago, flip12 said:

 

Not quite the same use cases. Hockey sticks and golf clubs both launch projectiles with a swinging motion, yes, but hockey sticks also function as sabres ... how long would those clubs last if they had to withstand the impacts inherent to hockey? And still perform, ballistically?

I know guys still using gold Grip Synergys. That's no different than the guys that buy two drivers in a lifetime.

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9 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

 

That would be a site to see... Golf cross-check and ankle slashing... dropping THE glove :). Many would pay to see this. I think we are onto something here. Not really relevant to discussion, but I kind of envisioning this while reading the post and felt compelled to write it. Sorry. 

 

Lol.  That is a round of golf I might actually watch. 

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10 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

 

That would be a site to see... Golf cross-check and ankle slashing... dropping THE glove :). Many would pay to see this. I think we are onto something here. Not really relevant to discussion, but I kind of envisioning this while reading the post and felt compelled to write it. Sorry. 

 

I think I pictured this immediately, from back when the NHL was on Fox, with glow pucks and dueling robots.

 

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16 hours ago, Chadd said:

I know guys still using gold Grip Synergys. That's no different than the guys that buy two drivers in a lifetime.

Yes it is. I play both golf & hockey several times a week and I see WAY more older golf equipment than I do old carbon sticks. It's not even close. With that said, Golf/Hockey would be an amazing sport. 

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19 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

The two aren't as different as you think. Check out this site, Golfwrx.com. We've got nothing on golf gear whores.

golfwrx is good.  Dont go there too regularly...My Golf Spy...though would be interesting if they had a "My Hockey Spy" type of gear info site.

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5 hours ago, ZINC said:

Yes it is. I play both golf & hockey several times a week and I see WAY more older golf equipment than I do old carbon sticks. It's not even close. With that said, Golf/Hockey would be an amazing sport. 

I don't know about that, I seem to wrap a driver around a tree every time I duff a drive.

 

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13 hours ago, ZINC said:

Yes it is. I play both golf & hockey several times a week and I see WAY more older golf equipment than I do old carbon sticks. It's not even close. With that said, Golf/Hockey would be an amazing sport. 

I see maybe two sticks a year break in our league games and more often than not it's a wood stick. Most of the guys have a garage full of old sticks that are still usable. Then again, we play in a league without a ton of slashing. If you hack and wack, your stuff is going to break.

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Reading this thread there appears to be some scuttlebutt between posters who are involved in the industry.  I don't intend to offend anybody, I will just speak from a consumer's perspective.  My son has been playing hockey for 10 years now.  I grew up playing the game but was out of it for a decade or so and in that time a lot of things changed when it came to equipment so I had to re-educate myself.  I can speak to the buying habits of myself and most others on my son's team. 

 

We go to the Twin Cities quite often to play and am very familiar with the Total Hockey stores there (I will agree that the Edina/Bloomington location has a huge amount of wasted floor space).  I would describe the Total Hockey experience as something similar to a Best Buy experience.  You would go to the store to see what they have and to be able to visibly touch the product.  If they had exactly what you wanted you would buy right then and there.  If not you would grab something else in the product line and try it on for size and then order online exactly what you wanted (e.g. you wanted something in the CCM RBZ line but they only had Tacks on site).  This method applies to sticks and protective equipment.  When it comes to skates most I know don't buy at TH anymore, instead most people are loyal to one of the LHS in the Twin Cities or another LHS in different Midwestern town and will fit, size, and buy from them because of the service they get when it comes to knowledge and fitting, and usually while purchasing a skate from a LHS you'll end up buying another piece of equipment because you are there and it is available.

 

Don't know if that helps any retailers out there.  You probably already knew of this type of consumer behavior anyway, the key is finding a way to capitalize on it.  Hockey is expensive to put your kids through and you can bet that a majority of parents are out there looking for value purchases.  Most don't go to the top of the line model, they seek out good quality equipment that is appropriate to their kids level of play at a reasonable price point.  With the internet now they will look for deals and convenience.  Personally, I buy my kid's skates from a LHS and look for any other equipment that is one "the list".  If they carry it and it is within $10-20 of the "online" price I will buy it because I know that the purchase helps keep the family owned shop in business, but I won't just blindly buy from them whatever they have in stock at whatever price because I am on a family budget too, ya know.

 

As to the manufacturers, from the consumer's side they are giving us so much selection it is ridiculous.  Think about it for a second, I am looking to buy my kid shoulder pads and between CCM and Bauer alone I have the choice between 3 different product lines from each and at about 5 different price points, and that is just for the latest model, now throw in prior year's models and the discounts on them.  Incredible selection of quality equipment for the consumer.  A nightmare for the retailer trying to play the game of inventory management and deciding what to stock.  It would almost be better if the manufacturer and retailer got together to consolidate the product lines and the amount of price points offered.  It would probably be easier on some parents too, the ones who are overwhelmed with the decision of what is the right thing to buy.

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From a manufacturer side it is really quite easy to explain why you see multiple lines of products.  More product lines = More sales (not always true, but most of the time it is true).  The big guys don't want a small guy filling a niche and taking sales away from them.

 

A companies main objective is to maximize profits, so we need to look at the how product is manufactured and sold.  Most products have a two year life cycle:

 

Year 1 - Product family X launches (think Vapor)

Year 2 - Product X in its 2nd year sees sales numbers drop.  What is a manufacturer suppose to do?  Launch a new "different" product family.  Sell the consume on different fit, styling, etc.  Now you have Product Family Y launch (think Supreme Launch).  Sales of Family Y go up and support the decline in sales of Family X.

Year 3 0 - New Product family X launches.

 

And so on and so on

 

This is a very simplified explanation, but it is how most companies think.  

 

In the end, it is all about maximizing profits.  This is why you see so much product out there.  Everyone is trying to take business away from their competitors.  Hockey is a very small industry and every dollar counts.

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True.  I understand all that, and the reason why I say it is a great time to be a consumer because there is so much product out there.  Because there is so much product available to a "niche" sport supply/demand is going to force downward pressure on prices, unless pricing is controlled, hence MAP. 

 

My earlier post was just to give some insight into consumer behavior from myself and people I know, anecdotal at best for sure.  I can understand the pressure there is on retailers, both the big box types, the e-tailers, and the LHS.  Tough business.

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On 7/10/2016 at 10:38 AM, EBondo said:

 

As a Giant employee, I can personally say this is wrong. We'll match any discount provided on our website, as long as it applies to said items.

Sorry about that. I said what I said from the encounter with a Giant employee over the Giants chat service. He said online coupons are applicable only to online purchases. If you are right then the other guy was wrong. I will check this next time I need to buy something. Thanks

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My times of buying anything in the store are pretty much over, unless I get the same deal as on line. I do not care how you sell it and why. If someone else has exact same thing as you for cheaper, I am getting it there. I go to stores as one of the posters pointed out to touch the stuff, try it on, choose what I like, then, I will see if the store will sell it to me for the same price as I can find elsewhere on-line (taking into account taxes, shipping charges, any additional value addons), Then i evaluate the situation and buy accordingly. If I go to HockeyMonkey and pick a pair of skates for $239 and a stick on clearance for $59, Then I know that they will sharpen my skates for free ($6 value), but I have to pay 8% tax. I will look at PureHockey.com, see that they sell the same skates for $159 (same tax and no shipping charge) and the stick for $79... Believe you me, if I am buying the stick from HokeyMonkey and Skates fro PureHockey, then I take the skates to HockeyMonkey to sharpen for $6. I am not spending extra $40-$50 on the same crap so I can get it here and now or because I like the dud who sharpens my skates and he is a nice chatty chap. Of course, if HockeyMonkey  has a big sign at the door saying that they will match internet prices, I am all in. Even if they charge me $6 for sharpening in lieu of matching an internet price. My total out of pocket has to be within $5-$10 from what I can find online, otherwise i am buying it on-line and spend the saved $10 on an ice-time. Some you might find is a cold and unconsidered, but, Hockey and Skating stuff in general is not as bad as some more consumer stuff like electronics. I can not buy CCM JetSpeed skates at Amazon from an etailer... I am limited to hockey stores such as GiantHockey, HockeyMonkey, PuroHockey, now deceased TotalHockey... maybe Dick's among other few. The locak rink stores, have to get with the program. This is pretty iinsane, unless you buy laces. The popular entry level skates - Bauer Supreme 140 (Sr.) are sold by HockeyMonkey for $39, while my rink shop has them for $90.... If it had them for $50, I would say ok, but $90 +tax... not gonna happen, give me a couple of skating time passes or something like that.. I doubt that rink store can competitively sell skates as they do not have neither the variety of skates, nor the variety of sizes. I can see them selling shoelaces, tape, and sticks (in case someone breaks it during a game and has no spare). There has to be a balance between cost of the product and value to the costumer, everything else is water under the bridge. Be it a small rink shop, or a TotalHockey giant, no value = no business, but more debt and an inevitable end. 

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And the barrage of responses from LHS guys about how they can't stand people who use their inventory for online sizing purposes begins in 3.......2........1.........

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Jesus H CHRIST KGBeast, I hope you never own a business because I feel as if you'd have the same practices as most shops would. You buy low and sell high. So what you're essentially saying is, let me touch touch touch and then go buy online. Pathetic if you're not supporting a local B&M store. 

 

The same thing applies to a shop I go to to vape at. He will sell me a coil for $10, when I can simply go Online and pay $2 for it. You know WHY I still buy from him? Well, one is because I'm a loyal person and number 2 is that I'm supporting his business and three, he is a person I can go I to the shop and just hang out and chat with. Am I always buying something? No, but I'll know what to buy next time I go in and not look it up online like a ferret for a better price and then complain to him when he won't honor it. 

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Really now KGBeast?  Do you know TH?  Have you ever shopped in one?  I don't think so based on your "analysis" of their business practices.  TH certainly prices matched and often had amazing specials and pricing.  That combined with a FULL SERVICE philosophy.  This is/was a GREAT chain.  Price matching is NOT why they ran into trouble.  Please get facts in line and be knowledgable before making a post like that. 

 

SCBlueliner - I totally disagree with your perception of the shopping experience at TH.  I found the staff helpful and knowledgable and the inventory selections quite vast.  Coming from LI where we have very little it is always an amazing experience when I go there.

 

As to each of you who it appears will not buy in stores, we need, and will always need brick and morter stores and we would all do well to support them.  Sometimes I spend a bit more to shop at a store I support or to be able to try things on.  As long as pricing is fairly close (which in TH's case was certainly true due to price match and their own web site) the last thing I would do is then run out and order to online. 

 

Oh... and no dog in the race... I am not a retailer...

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So all bickering about shopping habits of the general public aside, is there any news on whats actually happening with the stores? 

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