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Rules Question: Inadvertent Icing call

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Team A is shorthanded and Ices the puck (Hybrid Icing League) Team B player hits the dots and the referee calls icing, obviously incorrectly. 

The ref apologizes and says the faceoff is in Team B's defensive zone. Team B protests saying the faceoff should be at center ice due to the official's mistake, however the ref says no.

 

According to USA Hockey rule 624(c)  - If the Officials shall have erred in calling an “icing the puck” infraction (regardless of whether either team is shorthanded) a last play face-off (end zone face-off spot nearest to the location of the puck when play was stopped) shall occur.

 

Is this a recent rule change? I just don't understand why either team should be rewarded/penalized for a referee's mistake. I always thought a faceoff at center ice offered no advantage to either team, what reason would there be to change that., 

 

For the record we won the faceoff and sprung our right winger on a breakaway and scored... but still think the faceoff should've been at center ice ;)

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I asked the same question at my Ref clinic. They said putting it at center ice penalizes the team that didn't actually ice the puck more than putting it in the defensive zone of the other team does, keeping in mind that the team taking the offensive zone face off is short handed.

 

I agree with the concept in the situation you mentioned, but I'm not sure I agree with it when it's even strength.

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9 hours ago, OptimusReim said:

I asked the same question at my Ref clinic. They said putting it at center ice penalizes the team that didn't actually ice the puck more than putting it in the defensive zone of the other team does, keeping in mind that the team taking the offensive zone face off is short handed.

 

I agree with the concept in the situation you mentioned, but I'm not sure I agree with it when it's even strength.

 

This;. 100% This. 

 

I'm still mildly bitter that my team lost a chance to tie a playoff game cause of that. We were shorthanded and got called for an icing with about 5 seconds left in the third, down by one of course. They placed the faceoff at center due to the mis-call. 

 

In those last 5 seconds we actually got a zone entry shot off, but we would have been way better off had the icing not been called. 

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That was changed with the new rulebook (2013? '15?).  It makes sense because that's where the play was stopped.  If they hadn't incorrectly called icing, Team B player would have gained possession of the puck in the end zone faceoff spot.  By placing it at center, you're giving Team B an advantage by advancing the puck.  Not to mention that center ice faceoffs are rare other than the normal times, so moving the puck there is just creating a situaion that is unusual and can be confused.  They are trying to simplify faceoff locations and this just goes along with it.  

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27 minutes ago, Travislicious said:

 

This;. 100% This. 

 

I'm still mildly bitter that my team lost a chance to tie a playoff game cause of that. We were shorthanded and got called for an icing with about 5 seconds left in the third, down by one of course. They placed the faceoff at center due to the mis-call. 

 

In those last 5 seconds we actually got a zone entry shot off, but we would have been way better off had the icing not been called. 

Ouch, not only did they blow the icing call, but they also blew where to put the faceoff. Were these level 1 refs? heh. 

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I think they should be going to hybrid icing anyway.  How many times have you had your player try to track down an iced puck (usually because of a missed breakout pass) while the other team didn't skate for it at all, only to come a foot short before it crossed the line.  So in Travis' case, his player would have beaten the other team to the puck, icing or not, which would have negated it anyway.  2 of my 3 leagues have also gone to blue line icing, which has cut the number down significantly.

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23 hours ago, psulion22 said:

I think they should be going to hybrid icing anyway.  How many times have you had your player try to track down an iced puck (usually because of a missed breakout pass) while the other team didn't skate for it at all, only to come a foot short before it crossed the line.  So in Travis' case, his player would have beaten the other team to the puck, icing or not, which would have negated it anyway.  2 of my 3 leagues have also gone to blue line icing, which has cut the number down significantly.

 

Not enough officials know how to call hybrid icing ha.

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On 7/27/2016 at 11:19 AM, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Not enough officials know how to call hybrid icing ha.

This is true. And if you get a late time slot for your game just assume that Icing isn't a rule at all anymore.

Edited by Bakum
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On 8/9/2016 at 1:03 PM, Bakum said:

This is true. And if you get a late time slot for your game just assume that Icing isn't a rule at all anymore.

I became a ref last year, and only reffed kids.  This year, I've been reffing the local adult leagues on nights that I'm not playing because the league director is short refs and she asked me to ref.  The one thing I don't understand is refs being lazy and not calling icings when they're icings.  I call them every single time.  It's not that big of a deal, and it doesn't really slow the game down that much (unless there are a ton of them, which there usually aren't).  We also have hybrid icing, which helps keep the play going more often then not, and it makes the defending team actually skate for the puck. While I never yelled at or argued with refs in adult leagues, I often complained about their laziness to league officials.  And now that I am a ref, I get really annoyed when they don't call the game properly. Because it's not that difficult to call a f*cking icing. 

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On 11/23/2016 at 6:47 PM, JAG said:

I became a ref last year, and only reffed kids.  This year, I've been reffing the local adult leagues on nights that I'm not playing because the league director is short refs and she asked me to ref.  The one thing I don't understand is refs being lazy and not calling icings when they're icings.  I call them every single time.  It's not that big of a deal, and it doesn't really slow the game down that much (unless there are a ton of them, which there usually aren't).  We also have hybrid icing, which helps keep the play going more often then not, and it makes the defending team actually skate for the puck. While I never yelled at or argued with refs in adult leagues, I often complained about their laziness to league officials.  And now that I am a ref, I get really annoyed when they don't call the game properly. Because it's not that difficult to call a f*cking icing. 

Unfortunately, far too many officials take the "it's only beer league" attitude when working adult games. I've seen a lot of people get hurt over the years because of it as well. 

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On 11/28/2016 at 9:33 PM, Chadd said:

Unfortunately, far too many officials take the "it's only beer league" attitude when working adult games. I've seen a lot of people get hurt over the years because of it as well. 

This is also true. I have seen some really dirty play take place where the Refs allowed things to get out of hand due to the fact that a game started as late 10:50pm. The lack of whistles and penalties is mostly because the refs want to go home. This is really a time when players can get hurt. We don't make millions of dollars here; in fact we all pay to play the game. And in a lot of cases, if a player gets hurt at a game, he/she may not be getting paid if he/she is not working. 

For all the honest refs out there, I wasn't generalizing all refs because there are a lot of good ones out there. All that I think we ask is that the game stays fun and safe regardless of the start time.

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100% true. My injury likely wouldn't have happened if the idiot on the other team hasn't been out for his pound of flesh from whoever gets in his way because nothing was being called.

Its amazing how quickly they can shut down the dirty play if they cared enough to bother. 

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On 12/1/2016 at 7:59 PM, IPv6Freely said:

100% true. My injury likely wouldn't have happened if the idiot on the other team hasn't been out for his pound of flesh from whoever gets in his way because nothing was being called.

Its amazing how quickly they can shut down the dirty play if they cared enough to bother. 

Yup... reffed a game last night, and in the first we noticed it was already starting to get a little chippy.  So we started calling a lot more penalties, and it shut that shit down real quick.  Game finished with no fights or incidents.  

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3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Yup... reffed a game last night, and in the first we noticed it was already starting to get a little chippy.  So we started calling a lot more penalties, and it shut that shit down real quick.  Game finished with no fights or incidents.  

Amazing how something so obvious that works so well is done so rarely.

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I was playing a while back, and there is a particular D-Bag who refs only men's  league, so he doesn't see me and doesn't know I'm also an official. So this guys is of course doing the usual lazy skate, no offsides, icings, etc.  Waved off a goal because he didn't see it go in, which he probably didn't from the blue line.  This is the guy who is supposed to be the low man. So I says to him "It certainly would have been easier to see from the goal line.   You know, the proper position."  He responds: "You weren't in (defensive) position, you're one to talk?"  Wow. 

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On 12/6/2016 at 4:26 PM, BenderHockey said:

I was playing a while back, and there is a particular D-Bag who refs only men's  league, so he doesn't see me and doesn't know I'm also an official. So this guys is of course doing the usual lazy skate, no offsides, icings, etc.  Waved off a goal because he didn't see it go in, which he probably didn't from the blue line.  This is the guy who is supposed to be the low man. So I says to him "It certainly would have been easier to see from the goal line.   You know, the proper position."  He responds: "You weren't in (defensive) position, you're one to talk?"  Wow. 

Haha he sounds like a beaut! Now that I'm involved in all 3 facets hockey (player, official and coach), I've had the opportunity to have a better perspective of how to hold each position. I play and officiate men's league hockey. I know that when I play, I play hard but I also know that it isn't 'life or death.' I'm not going to give the officials a hard time over something that really isn't that big of deal. When wearing the stripes, I give appropriate effort for the level I'm working. For men's league, I don't have to treat it like I'm working the middle of a junior game BUT I shouldn't have a 'laissez faire' attitude while on the ice. Yes, it's late at night. Yes, it's cold. Yes, the quality of hockey isn't as good. So what? No one is forcing you to officiate men's league. If you are going to show up, give enough effort to show the players you actually care.

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If you are getting paid to ref or even volunteer for that matter, you should do it to the best of your abilities and take it seriously. It shows respect for the game. Nobody is making you do it, so if you don't want to put the effort in do everyone a favor and quit. Regardless of the level, the game means something to the players. Winning or loosing shouldn't be determined by a lazy ref. My advice to refs is talk to the players during the game and talk to them with respect until you have reason not to. If things start getting chippy, tell both benches to take it down a little or you will do it for them. If a player is respectful and asks a question don't treat them like they are ignorant. If they question a call, let them know what they did. Compliments and jokes can take the edge off a game. Even though what you call will ultimately be law don't act like you are above everyone and remember there is more to the ice than what is between the two blue lines. The best refs I've ever skated with always stay calm, talk to the players and respect the game.

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On 2/24/2017 at 6:47 PM, chk hrd said:

The best refs I've ever skated with always stay calm, talk to the players and respect the game.

It should be a two-way street though. As someone who plays and officiates men's league, you can only talk to those who want to listen. There are some games I won't even open my mouth unless I have to. You deal with some guys who treat every game like Game 7. Those guys are looking for someone (mainly anyone in stripes) to complain to. Silence on my end moves their attention to their opponent. 

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There is a big difference between silence and ignoring. Because hockey has a high level of passion while playing, players are naturally amped up. If they get out of line and start yelling, refs should let them know that they can talk about it when the player calms down or he can talk to the captain when play stops. To many refs just skate away instead of saying anything which makes things worse. I couldn't count how many times I've asked what I did just to have the ref just tell me get in the box. If I asked how did I hook someone and do it in a somewhat civil tone, tell me what I did. If I ask (as a captain) what was the call for, a simple explanation is all I need. Silence on your end doesn't move the attention. It pisses the player off because no one likes to be ignored. A refs tone towards the players and the game goes along way to how that game will be played. If more refs went to the bench and told the teams things are starting to get out of hand so they are going to start reeling it in I think there would be less problems on the ice. I'm not saying have long meaningful conversations, just a little communication.

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One of my men's league teams got screwed over in our final game on a play similar to the OP's, let's see if the ref was right or wrong.  We were even strength and had the puck in their zone, our player was in the offensive corner, passed the puck back to a vacant point and it went all the way back down to our end, refs called it for icing right away (we play automatic icing).  The ref messed up since it was our own team who shot it down, he admitted this.  As a result of the mistake he (and the other ref) decided to do the faceoff in our defensive zone, basically penalizing us for his mistake.  The other team scored on the faceoff which gave them a 2 goal lead (we lost by 1).  Our bench was pissed with the faceoff location but the refs didn't care, they just kept saying it was in the area of where the puck was when play stopped/whistle was blown.  I still don't think they were right and think we would have had a chance to come back if not for that goal that resulted from that face off.  I'd love to hear from anyone with more knowledge than me about it, I'm still a bit sour haha

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The faceoff was in the correct place. They made a rule change recently that the faceoff should take place where the puck was on an inadvertent/accidental whistle.

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In Canada the faceoff would've been at center ice. I still think that's the fair thing to do after a mistake like that, however; if the USA hockey rules state that the faceoff is where the play was blown dead then the refs made the right call. The refs don't make the rules; they just apply them.

Edited by althoma1

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The refs were correct as per the new rule.  It sucks, but mistakes happen.  Your player should have looked before firing a puck back to the vacant point. lol

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