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colins

CCM Jetspeed Eyelet issue

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Update with some good news.

CCM has approved a warranty claim on these skates even though they are beyond the standard 90 day warranty period. So good on them for that!

I have a couple of challenges though - they want the skates shipped back w/proof of purchase (no problem since I keep all receipts). He's currently still using them (by skipping the ripped out eyelet) and there's no break in the schedule coming up (he plays major midget and high school hockey) to allow for a return without me needing to line up another pair of skates for him first. So that's a bit of a catch-22 I don't know how to deal with at the moment.

The other challenge is that it does seem his sweaty feet and the CCM embossed eyelets are incompatible. The RBZ eyelets held up fine for two seasons prior to these skates. He loves the Jetspeeds, so I've asked CCM if they have an option of putting RBZ style or stainless eyelets into a pair, or if there is anything I can do to protect the CCM embossed eyelets to prevent similar damage from occurring again. I doubt there's an easy answer here, and I'd be happy to get a replacement pair that I can at least get this season out of so my expectations there aren't much more than being glad to take a replacement retail pair and hope for the best.

Thanks for the advice guys, and kudos to CCM for standing behind their product.

colins

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Glad CCM is standing behind their product.  Its always nice when a company steps up and does the right thing.  A lot of people have had issues with Bauer's warranty department, but me personally I never had.  They replaced my skates after about 9 months of use.  I also have never had them turn down a stick warranty replacement either, but those where all within 30 days.

See if you can find a cheap used pair somewhere like eBay or sideline swap in his size to get him by.  In my experience with Bauer once they got my skates it was about a week turn around.

 

 

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2 hours ago, colins said:

 

Update with some good news.

CCM has approved a warranty claim on these skates even though they are beyond the standard 90 day warranty period. So good on them for that!

I have a couple of challenges though - they want the skates shipped back w/proof of purchase (no problem since I keep all receipts). He's currently still using them (by skipping the ripped out eyelet) and there's no break in the schedule coming up (he plays major midget and high school hockey) to allow for a return without me needing to line up another pair of skates for him first. So that's a bit of a catch-22 I don't know how to deal with at the moment.

The other challenge is that it does seem his sweaty feet and the CCM embossed eyelets are incompatible. The RBZ eyelets held up fine for two seasons prior to these skates. He loves the Jetspeeds, so I've asked CCM if they have an option of putting RBZ style or stainless eyelets into a pair, or if there is anything I can do to protect the CCM embossed eyelets to prevent similar damage from occurring again. I doubt there's an easy answer here, and I'd be happy to get a replacement pair that I can at least get this season out of so my expectations there aren't much more than being glad to take a replacement retail pair and hope for the best.

Thanks for the advice guys, and kudos to CCM for standing behind their product.

colins

While I can't guarantee this will work, see if CCM will approve an advanced shipment. This means they mail you the replacement first, and then once received, you send back your damaged pair with the proof of purchase. I'd explain the hockey schedule your son has. If they are about great customer service, they'll make an exception here.

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Skaters whose ph is acidic and who sweat a lot tend to corrode the rivets quick. If he's like that, use your boot dryer and get air inside the skate circulating. The sweat also eats away at threads and the liner. Dry them up nice after every skate.

 

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3 hours ago, colins said:

 

Update with some good news.

CCM has approved a warranty claim on these skates even though they are beyond the standard 90 day warranty period. So good on them for that!

I have a couple of challenges though - they want the skates shipped back w/proof of purchase (no problem since I keep all receipts). He's currently still using them (by skipping the ripped out eyelet) and there's no break in the schedule coming up (he plays major midget and high school hockey) to allow for a return without me needing to line up another pair of skates for him first. So that's a bit of a catch-22 I don't know how to deal with at the moment.

The other challenge is that it does seem his sweaty feet and the CCM embossed eyelets are incompatible. The RBZ eyelets held up fine for two seasons prior to these skates. He loves the Jetspeeds, so I've asked CCM if they have an option of putting RBZ style or stainless eyelets into a pair, or if there is anything I can do to protect the CCM embossed eyelets to prevent similar damage from occurring again. I doubt there's an easy answer here, and I'd be happy to get a replacement pair that I can at least get this season out of so my expectations there aren't much more than being glad to take a replacement retail pair and hope for the best.

Thanks for the advice guys, and kudos to CCM for standing behind their product.

colins

Did they agree to replace or did they agree to accept them under warranty to evaluate and determine the next step? Every manufacturer has warranty procedures and levels of remedy. Replacement is the top and usually is applicable only if there is a manufacturing defect. They might choose to go as far as replacing the boot only and put your older holders and insoles on it. You are pretty OCD with the way you store the gear. You hang all that upside down and blow fan on it, might have something to do with deterioration. Modern liners are non-absorbing, even moisture repelling. This means that when you hang your skates like this, the sweat and moisture will wick to the top of the eyelet rows and dry there. It can potentially cause degradation of the eyelets and the material they are installed in. CCMs problem is that they have not provided (or did they?) with a care instruction stating that the skates to be stored in upright orientation with insoles removed and not blow warm air directly on the wet skates.   

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Cheaper and easier for CCM to just ship new skates than it would be to take the old holders off of the returned skates and put them on new boots.

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47 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

Did they agree to replace or did they agree to accept them under warranty to evaluate and determine the next step? Every manufacturer has warranty procedures and levels of remedy. Replacement is the top and usually is applicable only if there is a manufacturing defect. They might choose to go as far as replacing the boot only and put your older holders and insoles on it. You are pretty OCD with the way you store the gear. You hang all that upside down and blow fan on it, might have something to do with deterioration. Modern liners are non-absorbing, even moisture repelling. This means that when you hang your skates like this, the sweat and moisture will wick to the top of the eyelet rows and dry there. It can potentially cause degradation of the eyelets and the material they are installed in. CCMs problem is that they have not provided (or did they?) with a care instruction stating that the skates to be stored in upright orientation with insoles removed and not blow warm air directly on the wet skates.   

 

Agreed, there seems to be no universal view on how to best care for the skates other than not leaving them wet in the bag after a skate. My setup might not be the absolute best, but it's certainly not the worst I've seen. I think in terms of due diligence, it should be considered normal use and not that the product has been neglected or abused.

Also with the lacing method - who cares if he's 'pulling up' vs. 'pulling outwards' (other than when the skates are first baked), the materials and construction of the boot should allow one to pull the laces tight to get the skate snug on the foot without fretting about the skate falling apart in the process.

Specifically on the Return, I filled out an online warranty claim, attached pictures of the damage (as per the above pics) and the response was:

                           "Your claim has been approved. In order to process a replacement order, we need to receive the defective skates back."

So it sounds like a full replacement, but now I have to try and figure out what he's going to skate in while they are shipped back for processing. I have a feeling my old One75's are going to need new runners and a re-bake to mold to his foot and my beer league days are on hold for a few weeks! LOL

 

colins

 

 

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32 minutes ago, colins said:

 

Agreed, there seems to be no universal view on how to best care for the skates other than not leaving them wet in the bag after a skate. My setup might not be the absolute best, but it's certainly not the worst I've seen. I think in terms of due diligence, it should be considered normal use and not that the product has been neglected or abused.

Also with the lacing method - who cares if he's 'pulling up' vs. 'pulling outwards' (other than when the skates are first baked), the materials and construction of the boot should allow one to pull the laces tight to get the skate snug on the foot without fretting about the skate falling apart in the process.

Specifically on the Return, I filled out an online warranty claim, attached pictures of the damage (as per the above pics) and the response was:

                           "Your claim has been approved. In order to process a replacement order, we need to receive the defective skates back."

So it sounds like a full replacement, but now I have to try and figure out what he's going to skate in while they are shipped back for processing. I have a feeling my old One75's are going to need new runners and a re-bake to mold to his foot and my beer league days are on hold for a few weeks! LOL

 

colins

 

 

You can still ask if they go with advanced replacement. Who knows. I thought they are not certain if they replacing or not, but if they are who cares if you get it first or not. Maybe they will take a  credit card hold from you until they receive the old skates...

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1 hour ago, colins said:

 

Agreed, there seems to be no universal view on how to best care for the skates other than not leaving them wet in the bag after a skate. My setup might not be the absolute best, but it's certainly not the worst I've seen. I think in terms of due diligence, it should be considered normal use and not that the product has been neglected or abused.

Also with the lacing method - who cares if he's 'pulling up' vs. 'pulling outwards' (other than when the skates are first baked), the materials and construction of the boot should allow one to pull the laces tight to get the skate snug on the foot without fretting about the skate falling apart in the process.

Specifically on the Return, I filled out an online warranty claim, attached pictures of the damage (as per the above pics) and the response was:

                           "Your claim has been approved. In order to process a replacement order, we need to receive the defective skates back."

So it sounds like a full replacement, but now I have to try and figure out what he's going to skate in while they are shipped back for processing. I have a feeling my old One75's are going to need new runners and a re-bake to mold to his foot and my beer league days are on hold for a few weeks! LOL

 

colins

 

 

I've dealt with CCM's warranty department before and they have been absolutely fantastic.  In order to expedite the exchange process (if indeed they're just replacing the item), what they will suggest is when you send the defective item back, you give them the shipment tracking number.  Once they have the tracking number, they'll send out the replacement item asap, even before they receive the defective item.  Should save you a couple of days.  If you need it even faster, given them a call and see what they can do.  They're extremely helpful and accommodating if it's a legit issue.

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3 hours ago, colins said:

 

Agreed, there seems to be no universal view on how to best care for the skates other than not leaving them wet in the bag after a skate. My setup might not be the absolute best, but it's certainly not the worst I've seen. I think in terms of due diligence, it should be considered normal use and not that the product has been neglected or abused.

Also with the lacing method - who cares if he's 'pulling up' vs. 'pulling outwards' (other than when the skates are first baked), the materials and construction of the boot should allow one to pull the laces tight to get the skate snug on the foot without fretting about the skate falling apart in the process.

Specifically on the Return, I filled out an online warranty claim, attached pictures of the damage (as per the above pics) and the response was:

                           "Your claim has been approved. In order to process a replacement order, we need to receive the defective skates back."

So it sounds like a full replacement, but now I have to try and figure out what he's going to skate in while they are shipped back for processing. I have a feeling my old One75's are going to need new runners and a re-bake to mold to his foot and my beer league days are on hold for a few weeks! LOL

 

colins

 

 

Trust me, it can make a difference in how well skates hold up in the eyelet area.

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4 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

I've dealt with CCM's warranty department before and they have been absolutely fantastic.  In order to expedite the exchange process (if indeed they're just replacing the item), what they will suggest is when you send the defective item back, you give them the shipment tracking number.  Once they have the tracking number, they'll send out the replacement item asap, even before they receive the defective item.  Should save you a couple of days.  If you need it even faster, given them a call and see what they can do.  They're extremely helpful and accommodating if it's a legit issue.

 

I've spoken to my local retailer where I bought the skate and they are willing to help with the exchange if CCM can ship the replacement pair to them, and then the shop will send my son's damaged skates back. I'm hoping CCM will go for that so he can continue to use them in the meantime until we get the replacements, and he won't need to be fitted into a temporary pair (which are going to be tricky getting used to with games coming up this weekend).

I grabbed a video of the extent of the damage (and of the good condition the skates are in otherwise):

 

 

 

 

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Go see Scotty at Sportshack off Old Pennywell. I'm sure you know him already, but if you want to replace the eyelets on the new warranty, he's your man! 

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I sweat buckets in either inline or ice which is why I know a bit about eyelets falling apart. The only effective solution I have found is that you have to wash the eyelets out after every use (I used a water / sodium bicarbonate solution). It is a real pita (you have to remove the laces and should also wash them each time, buy 4+ pairs of laces and rotate them) but on the other hand it forces you to look at your boots and I have found a surprising number of just in time fixes that I got to before major damage occurred (nicks in blades, laces, loose rivets, stitching just starting to come undone, etc). I haven't worried about eyelets for a while as my last skates have been TO, MX3 and apx2's but I have just acquired some new jetspeeds at a great price so will be back to eyelet maintenance big time if I want them to last.

Otherwise for hassle free maintenance you have to bite the bullet and get the eyelets changed out now.

As an aside you may want to get a ph kit and give him a test.

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On 9/22/2016 at 6:34 AM, colins said:

 

My 15 year old son got new Jetspeeds at the start of last season. The skates are a year old, and the eyelets are giving out. Eyelets below 1&2 (which seem to be round brass or copper eyelets) are a boxed shape on the inside, and they are getting crushed and deformed. Particular eyelets 3/4/5 which take the bulk of the strain.

This week, eyelet #4 pulled right out, and the lace tore through the skate. I've got it at a shoe/leather repair shop now. My expectation was $700 skates should get through a season without this type of breakdown. My younger son had a pair of CCM Tacks, we haven't encountered the same issue with those.

It seems like a poor design for durability. For the minimal weight savings or cost CCM should have stuck with the more durable eyelets for 3,4,5. You can see eyelet 3 is crushing as well, and eyelet 5 has started to pull away from the hole, so this problem will probably get worse throughout the season.

Here's a pic:

D59P0lY.jpg

 

Colin

 

Does he lace outside in or inside out?

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26 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Does he lace outside in or inside out?

From the picture of the closet, it looks like he laces regular patter from outside in.

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6 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

From the picture of the closet, it looks like he laces regular patter from outside in.

 

We normally lace all our skates like shown in this picture (not my pic, found it via google).

rbzlace.JPG

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I was thinking about this yesterday while at work - 

I think those eyelets tend to crush because they're flat (presumably, to stamp CCM onto them.)

Standard eyelets have a bit of a contour on the inside.  So, with the flat eyelets, the lace will be in there flat.  And any tension over time is going to deform them.  On the bottom it isn't a huge concern, but the 3-5 eyelets take the brunt of pressure.  And most skaters want it the tightest there.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I was thinking about this yesterday while at work - 

I think those eyelets tend to crush because they're flat (presumably, to stamp CCM onto them.)

Standard eyelets have a bit of a contour on the inside.  So, with the flat eyelets, the lace will be in there flat.  And any tension over time is going to deform them.  On the bottom it isn't a huge concern, but the 3-5 eyelets take the brunt of pressure.  And most skaters want it the tightest there.

 

 

Is it just the eyelet problem or also the material that they are set to? I would think that no matter what eyelet it is, if it is set in a softer material, it will stretch and the eyelet will eventually pop. Could this be the case or at least a part of the problem? 

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26 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

Is it just the eyelet problem or also the material that they are set to? I would think that no matter what eyelet it is, if it is set in a softer material, it will stretch and the eyelet will eventually pop. Could this be the case or at least a part of the problem? 

 

In my experience with my son's Jetspeeds, it was only after the eyelet deformed that it began pulling away from the material/hole. I didn't save the eyelet that ripped out, but if you looked at it, the face of it had been deformed with a wedge in it meaning it was no longer perfectly round on the outside and that caused it to start to detach from the material around it.

As to JR's comment - I'm sure some mechanical engineer or materials expert can tell us the principles behind why a curved/convex surface eyelet (like the traditional eyelets in position 1, 2 and the bottom one) is stronger and less susceptible to this type of failure than a flat faced eyelet like the CCM stamped ones.

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3 hours ago, colins said:

 

We normally lace all our skates like shown in this picture (not my pic, found it via google).

rbzlace.JPG

 

Sometimes traditional lacing can cause issues like that since the lace can move and cause wear. Do you use waxed laces?

I had a pair of Bauers back in the day that had eyelet issues similar to you and I was lacing inside out on the bottom and outside in at the top. The bottom eyelets started to show abnormal wear and so I switched everything to outside in and the wear stopped. 

Overall, though, that seems like a skate defect. I don't think changing the way you lace could have prevented this.

Don't skates have a 1-year warranty or is it only 90 days? If it's only 90 days that really sucks. Good thing I buy everything with my AMEX. That extended warranty comes in handy. 

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18 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Sometimes traditional lacing can cause issues like that since the lace can move and cause wear. Do you use waxed laces?

I had a pair of Bauers back in the day that had eyelet issues similar to you and I was lacing inside out on the bottom and outside in at the top. The bottom eyelets started to show abnormal wear and so I switched everything to outside in and the wear stopped. 

Overall, though, that seems like a skate defect. I don't think changing the way you lace could have prevented this.

Don't skates have a 1-year warranty or is it only 90 days? If it's only 90 days that really sucks. Good thing I buy everything with my AMEX. That extended warranty comes in handy. 

Pretty much all hockey gear that I can think of with exception of helmets and goalie masks has a 90 day warranty (sticks are 30 days)... However, it is pretty standard that manufacturer would at least take a look into the problem well after that and possibly honor a warranty claim.  From what I gather, with skates, only holders and runners have 1 year warranty (with exception of Bauer, who has 1 year for holders and 90-days for runners)

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2 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I was thinking about this yesterday while at work - 

I think those eyelets tend to crush because they're flat (presumably, to stamp CCM onto them.)

Standard eyelets have a bit of a contour on the inside.  So, with the flat eyelets, the lace will be in there flat.  And any tension over time is going to deform them.  On the bottom it isn't a huge concern, but the 3-5 eyelets take the brunt of pressure.  And most skaters want it the tightest there.

 

 

I think you nailed it JR.  My last pair of old school Tacks had the flat eyelets, and the 3-5 on both sides of both skates were all bent.  They never pulled through, but they shredded laces.  A few of the 3-5 eyelets on my Vapors had pieces break off, but the eyelets maintained their shape. I'm on Jetspeeds now, so will be interesting to see what happens. 

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Jetspeeds shipped back to CCM Warranty return today. CCM wasn't willing to send me the replacements first and they didn't respond to my request to do the exchange via the Retail location I bought them at. But they did say they would cross-ship the replacements, so I'm hoping that the new skates are in the mail to me within the next day or two as I provided tracking info to them on the returned skates. 

In the meantime, my son's going to give my One75's a try for his practices and games this weekend as our feet are almost the same size. Hoping that works out OK. 

 

colins

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