FBV 100/50 to ROH 5/8's - Thinking of switching

[darkhors 88]

So I currently use FBV 100/50 on my X90's with LS2 steel. I'm picking up some Step Black Steel in a few days and was thinking of switching over to ROH 5/8's. I've been noticing that I'm having to sharpen my skates more because my edges are getting messed up more frequently and I'm attributing this to the thinner edges of FBV over ROH. Has anyone skated on both and specifically, did you notice any less bite between the two? We tend to skate on medium hard ice (not soft and not super hard) and with the Step being stronger steel I think it may hold up better. 

I love the feeling of FBV but I'm wondering if I can get the same or better performance out of 5/8's? Any help is appreciated!

[chippa13 1844]

Edges getting messed up has more to do with clicking blades and stepping on stuff than skating. Take a look around the bench and walkway to and from the room. Odds are you'll see where there's a thin mat, gap, or heavily gritty area that you're passing thru.

[darkhors 88]

It's definitely not from that. I'm super careful about where I walk and I constantly look down where I'm walking to and from the bench. My blades don't click either. I had 1/2 inch on my steel before I switched to FBV and I'm noticed that I'm sharpening more because of nicks and such on the edges with the FBV all other things constant. I play at the same rink (95% of the time and I clean and look at my steel after each game when putting my skates away. It's possible that the LS2 is just not that hard and more prone to getting messed up the FBV because of how thin they are. I would consider going to FBV on the Step first, but I'm hoping to not have to have them setup two different ways if possible.

[chippa13 1844]

I more meant clicking blades with opponents in front of the net, battling in the corners, etc......pucks hitting the blades at an angle, sticks hitting the blades, and the like. There are a lot of things that can cause you to lose edges that has zero to do with the sharpening.

[darkhors 88]

Yeah, makes sense. I would definitely agree with the opponents blades hitting mine and such. Just seems like it's more often with the FBV than before.

[Solo_man11 9]

I would wait till your new steel comes in, the edges do last longer. I skate on 90/50 and switched to 10/11 profile. I found more bite on this profile and lost no glide. I think I have better glide, better bite and have not sacrificed agility. 

 

Your gonna love love that new steel.

[darkhors 88]

19 hours ago, Solo_man11 said:

I would wait till your new steel comes in, the edges do last longer. I skate on 90/50 and switched to 10/11 profile. I found more bite on this profile and lost no glide. I think I have better glide, better bite and have not sacrificed agility. 

 

Your gonna love love that new steel.

Solo, do you know what the stock profile of the Step Black steel is? I know that the LS2 is 9ft, but I thought I heard that the Step is 10. So I'm guessing that if I went with 100/50 on a 10ft, I'm going to get even more glide than now, but still keep the nice bite. 

Are you currently using the blacksteel too?

[JimmyTheDriver 36]

23 hours ago, darkhors said:

So I currently use FBV 100/50 on my X90's with LS2 steel. I'm picking up some Step Black Steel in a few days and was thinking of switching over to ROH 5/8's. I've been noticing that I'm having to sharpen my skates more because my edges are getting messed up more frequently and I'm attributing this to the thinner edges of FBV over ROH. Has anyone skated on both and specifically, did you notice any less bite between the two? We tend to skate on medium hard ice (not soft and not super hard) and with the Step being stronger steel I think it may hold up better. 

I love the feeling of FBV but I'm wondering if I can get the same or better performance out of 5/8's? Any help is appreciated!

I was bouncing between those two cuts for a while and never really noticed much in the way of either "holding up better".  The FBV cuts gave me the feeling of more bite without lost speed, but I ended up just going back to 5/8ths.

-Jim

[Solo_man11 9]

23 hours ago, darkhors said:

Solo, do you know what the stock profile of the Step Black steel is? I know that the LS2 is 9ft, but I thought I heard that the Step is 10. So I'm guessing that if I went with 100/50 on a 10ft, I'm going to get even more glide than now, but still keep the nice bite. 

Are you currently using the blacksteel too?

 Was told that the black step steel is 10' profile at neutral when I purchased them. Yes my step black steel is in my edge holders and I am on 10/11 profile +1 with a fbv 90/50 hollow. 

My friend was on a 10' profile when he got his Bauer supreme 190's and hated that profile. He switched back to 9' profile. Let me know how you like the new steel.

i am thinking of trying the blade master cut instead of fbv. My sharpening guy doesn't have the equivalent of 1" hollow but I think blademaster's equivalent is X09? 

[darkhors 88]

6 minutes ago, Solo_man11 said:

 Was told that the black step steel is 10' profile at neutral when I purchased them. Yes my step black steel is in my edge holders and I am on 10/11 profile +1 with a fbv 90/50 hollow. 

My friend was on a 10' profile when he got his Bauer supreme 190's and hated that profile. He switched back to 9' profile. Let me know how you like the new steel.

i am thinking of trying the blade master cut instead of fbv. My sharpening guy doesn't have the equivalent of 1" hollow but I think blademaster's equivalent is X09? 

So what is the 10/11 profile compared to a standard 10ft profile? I'm assuming the +1 is so the working part of the steel is more forward? Still wrapping my head around all the different profiling options...

[Solo_man11 9]

It's a combo profile and yes +1 is a slight lean forward.

[psulion22 402]

If 100/50 is losing it's edge too quickly, try moving down to 95/75.  The bite should be about the same, but the edges are thicker, so they should be stronger.  I had the same problem with 100/50, and found 95/75 to last much longer.  I recently tried 90/1 and it was too much bite.  95/75 on my Blackedge steel last a long time and still had bite even when it needed to be sharpened.

[darkhors 88]

Yeah, I had thought about moving to either a 90/50 or 90/75. I don't know that I need to go higher in depth as I get good bite with the 50, but I'm not sure if I should 95/50 or 95/75? Seems like 95/75 would be more bite than I'm getting now and I don't think I really need that.

[psulion22 402]

If you go down in width (90/95/100) you have to go up in depth (25/50/75/1) to get the same bite.  So to get close to 100/50, you need to go to 95/75.  95/50 won't have the same.

[darkhors 88]

Wouldn't the narrower width just take away from the glide and not bite? I would think that the first number controls glide and the second is for bite. I know there would be a very minimal loss in bite, but that seems to be the beauty of the FBV being flat instead of round. You have two variables to work with. I may start at the 100/50 and see how it feels on the new steel and then go from there. Who knows, maybe It'll be even better than it is now and I won't have to do anything.

Thanks for all the info guys, I'll let you know what happens next week.

[jimmy 194]

8 hours ago, darkhors said:

Wouldn't the narrower width just take away from the glide and not bite? I would think that the first number controls glide and the second is for bite. I know there would be a very minimal loss in bite, but that seems to be the beauty of the FBV being flat instead of round. You have two variables to work with. I may start at the 100/50 and see how it feels on the new steel and then go from there. Who knows, maybe It'll be even better than it is now and I won't have to do anything.

Thanks for all the info guys, I'll let you know what happens next week.

The 100/50 has bite in the 1/2-9/16" hollow range, so going to 5/8 hollow would give you less bite and also less speed without the flat. I think you'll be very pleased with the Blackedge, short of stepping on metal or concrete, it's very hard to lose an edge from contact and the sharpening lasts a whole lot longer than stainless blades.  Suggest you stay with the 100/50 on them. If you do change FBVs do not worry about losing speed, going to narrower width is a very very minor change and not even distinguishable by the skater. Once on the blacks, I don't think you'll need to change.

[psulion22 402]

14 hours ago, darkhors said:

Wouldn't the narrower width just take away from the glide and not bite? I would think that the first number controls glide and the second is for bite. I know there would be a very minimal loss in bite, but that seems to be the beauty of the FBV being flat instead of round. You have two variables to work with. I may start at the 100/50 and see how it feels on the new steel and then go from there. Who knows, maybe It'll be even better than it is now and I won't have to do anything.

Thanks for all the info guys, I'll let you know what happens next week.

Bob is right.  The coated steel will give you longer lasting edges.  Just go with what you're used to and see how it works.  You probably won't have to do anything else.  I loved my coated LS steel.  I wish they made it for Edge holders.  LS4 is better, but still not nearly as good as the coated LS3.

But if you do have to change the FBV cut, it doesn't work the way you think it does.  It has to do with the angle of the edge to the ice.  The first number is the length of the flat part at the top, the second number is the depth of the flat (from the ice).  Those two numbers also combine to adjust the edge angle, which is what determines bite and other factors.  The steeper the angle, the more bite you get, and the smaller the depth, the more glide.  If you only increase the first number, the angle becomes steeper giving you more bite  (100/50 has more bite than 90/50).  If you only increase the second number, the flat gets deeper, and the angle becomes steeper giving less glide and more bite  (100/75 has less glide and more bite than 100/50).  There are other things like stops and starts, and acceleration that are affected by changing the numbers, and that's where the beauty of the FBV comes in.  You can tweak the numbers to adjust different atributes of your skating, while not sacrificing others.  The thicker the edges the stronger they will be, and the smaller the first number or bigger the second (to a lesser degree), the thicker the edges (90/50 has thicker, stronger edges than 100/50, as does 100/75 vs 100/50).  So in your case, if you were only looking for stronger, longer lasting edges, you'd have to go from 100/50 to 95/50 or less, or 100/75 or more.  But, that will change the edge angle and affect bite.  Whichever number you choose to change, you'd have to change the other number inversely to compensate and get you back to where you were.  That means you're essentially sacrificing glide for edge strength either way (unless you can handle more bite and don't reduce the first number).  There's a chart on here somewhere that converts FBV number to edge angle, then correlates that to equivalent ROH.  You can use that chart to find what edge angle you are looking for, then choose the FBV cut with the smallest second number to get the most relative glide.

[darkhors 88]

Thanks guys,

I think I'll stay with the 100/50 and see how it goes. I don't really need more bite, so that's what I was thinking of going to 95/50, but now I realize that it would just effectively be less glide so that's not good :)

From the both of your experiences, it seems like I'll be very happy with the new steel which is great. I'm going to give it a go with the stock 10ft profile and the 100/50 and go from there. I'm hoping that I won't need to have it profiled.